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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Road Fan 09-25-10 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by lotek (Post 11475051)
If you're looking to buy tubulars Western Bike Works is having a 24 hour sale on all tires.
15% off all tubulars. They have the cheapest price on my personal favorite the
Gommitalia Espresso (normally $69.99).
They carry Vittoria, Veloflex, Conti, Schwalb, Tufo and a few others.

Marty

I just bought a small brace (well, 4) of Espressos. My cheap tires are wearing out and I haven't yet sent my old broken classic Vittorias out for new base tapes ... and I haven't found the right deal yet on 25 mm or 27 mm Pave-like tires.

Ebay is also still a good source if you're selective. A while back I bought a singleton Veloflex Servizio Corse, and last week I got another. Now my Mondonico can get nice new(-like) shoes! Almost like finding a pair of Allen Edmonds NIB at TJ Max!

beech333 10-06-10 06:51 PM

What is the best way to keep an old pair of tubular tires? I have read that they should be stored on a rim, but inflated or deflated? The ones that I have may not be super expensive, but they do seem fairly rare.

sykerocker 10-06-10 09:17 PM


Originally Posted by beech333 (Post 11582677)
What is the best way to keep an old pair of tubular tires? I have read that they should be stored on a rim, but inflated or deflated? The ones that I have may not be super expensive, but they do seem fairly rare.

I've always gone with inflated - I'm lazy, put 'em on at 100lbs, then check back in about six months. I figure that inflated, there's no chance for creases or cracks to set into the tubes, or casings, for that matter.

Road Fan 11-27-10 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by rize (Post 11847304)
Could not be stated better. Thank you. I was very pleased to read this. Truth has a definite ring cutting through the BS and getting down to the essentials. He has a roundabout way of telling people he doesn't approve their ideas because his infallible vision about a circular device invented during the Bronze Age tells him so. Unfortunately he never learned any basic writing skills. His articles are painful to read. His constipated delivery comes from a general lack of concern for the humanities. He probably considered such matters a waste of time causing him to write things decipherable only to himself. 'Decider-in-Chief' Bush Jr. probably communicated more clearly ;).

Jobst Brandt is a typical engineer - I know, I are one, and I've worked with other engineers for nearly 30 years. The training does not emphasize the humanities, to the point that some of us think no communication is of value unless it's a concise one-page list of equations, or a computer model. He's old-school, and that school was that the engineer had to have the confidence to walk into the office of one's boss, lay a stack of paper on the desk, and state (staking one's career on it) "This is my solution to our problem, and it IS good enough to build!" Then he has to support such a bold claim by being able to answer a lot of probing questions, from people who are at least as smart, and to show test results that verify the claims.

It's NOT the kind of communication one would like, if you're not an engineer as well.

As far as interpreting him, I'm not always that sure I get him. Most but not all of Bicycle Wheel was pretty clear, but too concise.

noglider 11-27-10 07:49 PM

Mathematicians and some types of engineers strive for a writing style that is provably the fewest possible words that completely make the point. This used to frustrate when I was learning UNIX and reading the manuals. But I eventually got used to it and can speak it, too. I worked for many years with scientists and engineers and mathematicians. People look at me funny when I slip into engineer-speak, and then I realize that it's not the language of everyday people.

pcfxer 11-29-10 06:53 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 11850208)
Mathematicians and some types of engineers strive for a writing style that is provably the fewest possible words that completely make the point. This used to frustrate when I was learning UNIX and reading the manuals. But I eventually got used to it and can speak it, too. I worked for many years with scientists and engineers and mathematicians. People look at me funny when I slip into engineer-speak, and then I realize that it's not the language of everyday people.

Let me take this opportunity to say ERTW! Now, I will say that tires are the MOST complex system on any bicycle, motorcycle or car. I studied the heck of out suspension design and technology for an SAE event (Formula SAE) and determined that pick-up points, geometry, rake, pitch, jounce/rebound, oscillations, etc. are all easier than understanding a tire. It is an extremely complex topic that should not be undermined by those that don't understand or by those that explain it too simply.

return END_RANT; //?

noglider 11-29-10 10:46 AM

Thanks for confirming what I suspected, pcfxer. And I don't even understand rake, pitch, etc very well. It seems also that tires are where we've had the most substantive gains. Most of the rest of the other advances are "nice to have" but not "must haves."

Since you probably know a bit about tires, can you tell us what enabled the latest generation of clincher tires to be developed? They are both supple and fast, which is clearly a breakthrough.

Tom

noglider 12-01-10 08:57 AM

Writing standards on the net are low. His exceed the median quality of writing. I think you're holding him up to some other standard than the net's.

20grit 12-01-10 09:33 AM

There are various excuses for poor writing. In the architecture, I see quite a few 'sentences' that are anything but. The situation often necessitates this be the case though.

My errors are generally with capitalization. On drawings, we exclusively use all caps. So, out of habit, I no longer push shift. I have hit backspace about 20 times in this short post to fix it.

My point is, don't judge him so harshly (continue to judge, but know that it probably doesn't need to be as harsh. Something to that effect). Habits are hard to break.

due ruote 12-03-10 07:09 PM

Sorry if this has been covered, but my search was fruitless and I didn't feel like reading this entire thread.

I've been having trouble with leaking from a valve stem core. Should I put some teflon tape on the threads, or loctite, or what? And just how is one supposed to tighten the darned thing? Is there a special wrench? The flats are tiny and grabbing it with pliers doesn't work, as the spokes are in the way.

Old Fat Guy 12-03-10 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by due ruote (Post 11882736)
Sorry if this has been covered, but my search was fruitless and I didn't feel like reading this entire thread.

I've been having trouble with leaking from a valve stem core. Should I put some teflon tape on the threads, or loctite, or what? And just how is one supposed to tighten the darned thing? Is there a special wrench? The flats are tiny and grabbing it with pliers doesn't work, as the spokes are in the way.

Teflon tape, and if the spokes are in the way, it's laced wrong.

sekaijin 12-04-10 06:25 AM


Originally Posted by due ruote (Post 11882736)
And just how is one supposed to tighten the darned thing? Is there a special wrench? The flats are tiny and grabbing it with pliers doesn't work, as the spokes are in the way.

I use the little plastic valve core removal tool that comes with a bottle of Tufo sealant. I have extras of the tool, PM me if you'd like me to mail you one.

sekaijin 12-04-10 06:28 AM


Originally Posted by rize (Post 11882806)
Can anyone comment on their experience with the Tufo Extreme sealant - is it more effective than their standard sealant?

I have only used the standard sealant, and liked it.

Ex Pres 12-08-10 10:46 PM

^^^ Is this possibly a product meant for track use?

Bianchigirll 12-08-10 11:00 PM


Originally Posted by sekaijin (Post 11883979)
I use the little plastic valve core removal tool that comes with a bottle of Tufo sealant. I have extras of the tool, PM me if you'd like me to mail you one.


I would love to score one of your little tools ;) can I PM you?

PS I agree unless you have like a 40+ hole rim, if the spokes seem to be in the way the wheel was poorly laced. the spokes adjacent to the valve, although going to different hub flanges, should appear to be parralell all the way to the hub. this should hold true on any wheel but 40+ there is just no room for anything between the spokes

due ruote 12-08-10 11:39 PM

Sekaijin, thanks for the kind offer, but I have it worked out.

I think the problem was with my description rather than the lacing. I was trying to grab the core with needle nose pliers, and I simply couldn't turn the pliers without bumping the handles into the spokes. A pair of bent nose pliers solved the problem.

That Tufo sealant is intriguing. Are you using on new tires to prevent flats, or as a repair? The description makes it sound like it could be used either way.

sekaijin 12-09-10 05:53 AM


Originally Posted by Bianchigirll (Post 11907354)
I would love to score one of your little tools ;) can I PM you?

sure :)

sekaijin 12-09-10 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by due ruote (Post 11907445)
That Tufo sealant is intriguing. Are you using on new tires to prevent flats, or as a repair? The description makes it sound like it could be used either way.

On new tires to prevent.

I do recall at least one time I got a small pinhole flat that seemed to "heal" itself and keep the tire inflated, thanks to the sealant.

And another time I got a worse flat that had me stopping to re-inflate the tire every few miles, despite the sealant.

Then there was my first tubular flat, when the tire burst completely with a 4-inch-long rip.

But for the most part, I use the sealant and I have pretty good luck getting very few flats over the years.

Of course, when I'm being good, I also avoid unpaved surfaces on tubulars, examine the tires between rides to remove tiny lodged pebbles, and swap out tires whose tread is worn down, before they fail. And I add a little more sealant if it's been a while.

The nature of investing in prevention is, it's hard to know for sure if it's actually doing anything. But I think it is. I don't have the "tubulars flat all the time" experience that some people seem to have.

SJX426 12-09-10 07:12 AM

4 Attachment(s)
I was curios about sealants and since I had a puctured Ralley, managed to get some in. I haven't ridden on it yet and will some day, but thought you might be interested in making comments about the result.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=181563http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=181560http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=181561http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=181562

The last one is a tire I inspected after a ride. I was able to peel it back to the edges of the tread!. Used rubber cement to glue it back on and am still riding it!

sekaijin 02-16-11 06:49 AM

Hey all, it's a February heat wave in Wisconsin (40F), so I'm riding my tubular commuter again.

When I went to the LBS to place my usual order of Tufo sealant, the wrench there convinced me I should try Stan's NoTubes, which they had in stock and it's a LOT cheaper. So I did.

I suppose I should have asked this question before putting it in my tubulars, but has anyone had good or bad experiences with Stan's NoTubes tire sealant?

mkadam68 03-01-11 09:41 AM

Hi--follow this thread when I can (sure I missed a few points here & there).

New to tubulars, looking to pick up some tires. These would be used exclusively for racing: criteriums mostly with a smattering of time trials thrown in. So I need them to hold up in the corners and not roll (I hate crashing at speed!). But, I'm probably a Cat 3 for life so I don't need the same tires as Lance & Fabian. They'll be going on some deep-rim carbon hoops. I have a friend who will show me how to glue 'em up.

Question:
  1. I'm leaning on getting Vittoria Corsa Evo CX and they're listed as 700x21. Are these somewhat equivalent to the Michelin Pro3Race 700x23 clinchers I currently ride?
  2. I've heard some interesting things about vulcanized/non-vulcanized. Is this something I need to worry about "in this day & age"? Do I need to worry about this with the Vittoria's?
  3. Are there alternative tires that may be less expensive but still perform well and safely in the races?

Ex Pres 03-01-11 11:09 AM

In general, tubulars are "rounder" than clinchers, so the CV 21s aren't much different than your 23 clinchers. Of course, that can also be affected by internal rim width, hence the new wider clincher Zipps, HEDs, and Velocity A23s.

Just buy the CXs. They ride great for their price. The TUFOs in the same price range I've been told ride nice, too. But you really can't go cheaper and expect the same ride qualities, same as the CXs aren't the same as a $120 tubular.

kroozer 04-05-11 05:11 PM

Anybody ever hear of Fangio 300 Servizio Corse tires? I just bought 3 of 'em on Ebay. They're NOS and supposedly in good shape, although I have no idea if they're any good. But they were cheap and I figure at the very least they'll make good spares.

sekaijin 05-06-11 10:44 AM


Originally Posted by sekaijin (Post 12233088)
When I went to the LBS to place my usual order of Tufo sealant, the wrench there convinced me I should try Stan's NoTubes, which they had in stock and it's a LOT cheaper. So I did.

I suppose I should have asked this question before putting it in my tubulars, but has anyone had good or bad experiences with Stan's NoTubes tire sealant?

Checking back in with a good review for Stan's NoTubes tire sealant.

Got a flat
put the sealant in
the hole is sealed
the tire is healed
and I am riding on it again.

So I recommend it - and it costs a fraction of what Tufo sealant costs.

Grand Bois 05-06-11 11:03 AM

I made my Presta valve tool by modifying one of the little wrenches that come in a Mafac tool kit.

San Rensho 05-09-11 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by mkadam68 (Post 12296921)
Hi--follow this thread when I can (sure I missed a few points here & there).

New to tubulars, looking to pick up some tires. These would be used exclusively for racing: criteriums mostly with a smattering of time trials thrown in. So I need them to hold up in the corners and not roll (I hate crashing at speed!). But, I'm probably a Cat 3 for life so I don't need the same tires as Lance & Fabian. They'll be going on some deep-rim carbon hoops. I have a friend who will show me how to glue 'em up.

Question:
  1. I'm leaning on getting Vittoria Corsa Evo CX and they're listed as 700x21. Are these somewhat equivalent to the Michelin Pro3Race 700x23 clinchers I currently ride?
  2. I've heard some interesting things about vulcanized/non-vulcanized. Is this something I need to worry about "in this day & age"? Do I need to worry about this with the Vittoria's?
  3. Are there alternative tires that may be less expensive but still perform well and safely in the races?

If you are going to race crits, try a wide tire, 23-25 mm range. You get better traction with a wider tire, which means being able to go faster around corners, which is what crits are all about.

rize 06-10-11 08:07 AM

Hello,
I recently purchased Tufo's tubular "hi-composite-carbon" tire. In the past I had good results with Tufo s33 Special and s3-Lite tires using the Tufo tape. This time, I wanted to try traditional rim glue - just playing with fire :-).

I used Wolber rim cement - a French product I bought on eBay. Not sure how old the product is. The tube's packaging doesn't seem it's left over from the 60's or 70's. Wolber's instructions are very brief, "apply even coat and wait at least 15 minutes. Reapply a thin bead on rim bed right before tire installation to make centering easier. Wait for 24 hours for complete adhesion." I applied an even coat to rim and base-tape waited 30 minutes. I applied a 2nd layer and waited another 30 minutes. Both rim and base-tape felt a bit sticky, I probably should have waited longer for that 'tacky' feel. Before the gluing process, the tire was reasonably stretched enough that I could get it on the rim without much effort. After glue was applied, it took more effort to install the tire - it seemed like the tire shrunk in diameter.

After installation I inflated to 140 PSI and let it sit for more than 24 hours. I deflated the tire to check proper adhesion and it was a complete failure. It took hardly any effort to pull the tire off the rim. My first gluing experience so I'm not surprised - probably committed several errors.

After the gluing process on 1 rim & tire, I still had 1/2 of the 27 gm tube. I heard some people use as much as 1 complete tube per wheel. So amount of glue I used is suspect.
My other mistake may be the time I allowed for curing before tire installation but I waited longer than 15 minutes as advised.

After a botched gluing attempt, can this tire still be safely mounted using rim-glue or Tufo tape?

Maybe some glue works better with Tufo's base tape than others. Thank you in advance if anyone can comment.

lotek 06-10-11 08:34 AM

I have some old tubes of Wolber glue laying around, but I don't think I'd use it. Wolber hasn't been in the tubular market for well over
10 years.
I usually use about 3/4 a tube per wheel. Might be excessive but I've never rolled a tire.
In answer to your last question, generally when I glue a rim I don't bother doing much more than knocking
off some of the excess glue on the rim, and I have put additional coats on the tire also. That said, I'm told
some glues don't work well together, but can't say I've had any experience with that.
There's a very good video done by one of the guys in the Racing or Road forum, I'll see if I
can get a link to it and put it in this thread.

Marty

Ex Pres 06-10-11 08:44 AM

You said you waited 30 minutes after second layer, but I didn't read that you applied a re-coat to the rim only right before installing the tire.

Lots of glue is not your answer, but it does need to cover the entire amount of where the tire contacts the rim.

If you did do a re-apply, then possibly your glue is past its prime.

Bianchigirll 06-10-11 09:08 AM

you did take the old tape off the rim yes? was this the first time you ever used glue on these rims?

I would think you need to remove all the adhesive from the tape completely. then use some denatured alcohol to clean the rims. put a nice base coat and let it sit for a few days. the glue the tire one. I also agree on not using that old glue, you don't know where it has been. also I know alot of guys do put some glue on the tire but I never have, and have no issues.

after you glued the tires on hwere did you store them? if they were in a hot enviroment like a garage or storage area the glue was likey too hot to set up.


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