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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

smontanaro 07-11-23 06:16 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22950440)
I remember the tires occasionally rather lumpy...

Even the low end Vittoria Rally tubulars roll smooth and straight these days.

79pmooney 07-11-23 07:12 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22950440)
It sounds like things are going better in Thailand than when I bought a few Vitt CX tires. I remember the tires occasionally rather lumpy, and the Vitt tubes actually being thinner and smaller, and the base tape being nearly impossible to remove without tearing. It seems as if they've cleaned up their act considerably in the last couple of decades. Even those were far better than the tires I rode in my youth. I still have a couple of ugly orange Conti Sprinters I keep around 'cos they still hold air.


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22950470)
Even the low end Vittoria Rally tubulars roll smooth and straight these days.

I recall reading that Vittoria owns their factory in Thailand and have complete control. I suspect the early days of the operation were rocky just based on what I know of Americans who went to Taiwan to have boats made of their design. Real culture shock and adjustment for both sides. Those who were willing to be patient and learn how to work with the very different culture had excellent boats made. Those who didn't - well those boats kept the stereotype of cheap Asian boats intact.

I didn't know what was happening at the time but I remember the days when Vittoria was struggling with good, uniform beads on their green tread clinchers, a tire I loved as all weather commuters until the bad bead days. Seems those days are now long gone and that factory is now turning out some of the best tires there are. Haven't hit a bad Vitt tubular yet.

Aardwolf 07-12-23 06:50 AM


Originally Posted by Aardwolf (Post 22940269)
Had a front flat yesterday (Vittoria Rubino Pro G+ 28mm).
The wheel was bent in a collision 1 month back, but I thought the tyre was OK (I rebuilt the wheel after the forks were fixed).

Tried the frame pump, then walked it home (1 mile).
Installed more Orange Seal and flat gone :)

The Orange Seal was the same bottle I used 13 months (and about 2k miles) back when I first discovered sealant.
I think I lost some fluid while fixing the wheel, or I've had several punctures I didn't notice,
either way I'm quite impressed with sealant :)


And exactly 1 week later a rear flat in almost exactly the same situation.

Found some 'latex' on the rear brake bridge and the back of the saddle bag, so something squirted out and didn't seal.
Had to order more Orange Seal (Endurance), so I've just put 1oz of new Orange Seal in the rear and it's still hard after 1 hour :)
But no sign of squirting and can't see where the leak was.

1st installed: about 1.5oz 23/05/2022
1st replacement: 1oz 29/06/2023

My conclusion: 1oz Orange Seal lasts about 1year in my tyres, and longer on the shelf in a bottle. It may be fixing quite a lot of punctures.
I think the Orange Seal instructions say add 1oz every 4 months.

Classtime 07-12-23 09:22 AM

For newbies:
Just be aware -- If you put sealant in tires that are used seasonally or only rarely for special occasions, the sealant will dry into a clump in the tube. It happened with my CX race day tires and my Eroica Bike. It is not a big deal but the idea is not to ride lumpy tires.

WGB 07-17-23 11:30 AM

Glue hardened a bit in the can.

I had been pre stretching a set of tires for three days and went just now to glue first coat.

Glue isn't hard but it's not going on the brush.
I remember years ago I had the same problem and someone said to add something to soften the glue. I can't recall if it was a dash of acetone or alcohol. It worked perfectly back then.

I can't simply run out and buy more as no one here carries it.

Any ideas?

smontanaro 07-17-23 12:14 PM

Acetone? Lennard Zinn on the subject:

https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/...-tubular-glue/

The topic is about removing glue from rims, but I presume acetone would also work to thin old glue. Try a bit and see.

Classtime 07-17-23 02:30 PM

I understand that Hexane would work the best. I also read that it is not likely that thinning will return the Mastik to original effectiveness. I always store my can upside down but I am down to 1/3 of a can and should probably get a new can.

MooneyBloke 07-18-23 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22956195)
I understand that Hexane would work the best. I also read that it is not likely that thinning will return the Mastik to original effectiveness.

If I believe the old can of Conti glue I have, cyclohexane (along with petroleum benzine) was the solvent for their glue. I'm hesitant to try other things though. Thinning the glue between the rim and the base tape is one thing, but having the solvent attack the base tape to carcass bond (usually latex emulsion on fine cotton tires) is a worry that I'd rather not have.

pastorbobnlnh 07-20-23 07:45 PM

I'm a Believer: Clement Scatto Servizio Corse
 
Over a year ago I picked up a new pair of Clement Scatto Servizio Corse tubulars for a great price. I don't remember specifically what I paid, but I'm certain it was less than $50 per tire. I've not measured the width, but I'm guessing about 23-24mm.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8374fa5008.jpg

About a week ago I tape mounted them on a new set of wheels I bought this spring. Subsequently I placed the wheels on my Schwinn 974 which was receiving maintenance at the time. Today I took it for a ride on the new Clements.

These have to be the smoothest, most supple, and fastest tires I have ever ridden. The ride was 28 miles. About 20% was on chip-seal, 40% smooth asphalt, and 40% concrete bike-path (with joints every 6 feet). I was very pleased regardless of the riding surface.

​​​​​​I've been riding this bike regularly lately, so I'll update on how they wear.

pastorbobnlnh 07-23-23 09:56 AM

I just had to take and post this picture.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9aa58c4982.jpg
Yep! I rode around Clement Circle on my new Clement tubulars. BTW, this is on a regular route but I never paid much attention to the street name. :p

spclark 07-23-23 11:35 AM

When You Discover...
 
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...74b5d54280.jpg
Reborn - again - after 51 years!

Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 22940187)
Dumb question time: at what point do you strip the old glue from your rims?

... that the old glue's turned to dust and the tire's slipping enough to start a bulge just ahead of the valve stem!

Seriously though, I just got back from a three-mile "test ride" after renovating my half-century Motobecane Grand Record. Spent its last ten years in the basement, upon a work stand, out of the way since we moved here a decade ago.

I hadn't ridden anything since that move then this year figured 'why not' try something more modern for commuting to my part-time job six blocks away rather than driving. So I bought a 2022 model Kona Dew+, been riding that for several weeks, getting myself back into decent shape.

In that I'm 74 now, the Moto was purchased on Easter Sunday in 1972. Rode it a LOT until work intervened the it didn't see much use.

Riding the Kona inspired me to get the Moto back under me. Spent three weeks taking it apart, cleaning everything, new ball bearings everywhere & new cables, sheathes, brake pads... but I didn't check the tire cement.

So that morning ride was to see if everything was back together right. After a couple miles & a few hills I was standing up to climb I felt a thumpthumpthump on straight smooth pavement. Careful exam showed that slight bulge at the valve stem but no leakage. So I got home, pulled the wheel, pulled the tire, found the cement had become dust.

Lacquer thinner cleaned rim off nicely. First coat of Continental's drying on the tire's tape. (Instructions indicate THREE DAYS dry time between the THREE COATS? Are they serious??) I'll be putting a coat on the clean rim too, then waiting a day for second coating tire's tape then I'll mount that tire once more maybe Thursday this week, see how it goes.

Wonderful forum here. I just discovered it last week, had some log-in issues I got straightened out earlier today so I'm rapidly getting my ten post count done so I can post pics....

pastorbobnlnh 07-23-23 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22961657)
...Wonderful forum here. I just discovered it last week, had some log-in issues I got straightened out earlier today so I'm rapidly getting my ten post count done so I can post pics....

Welcome aboard C&V! This is a great resource for all your vintage bike questions and needs.

It's a moot point now that you've begun to reglue your tires, but if the vintage bug bites and you find yourself with another tubular wheelset, consider using gluing tape. Its an amazing product which simplfies and neatens the tubular experience. My favorite is the tape made by Mariposa.

spclark 07-23-23 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 22961730)
... consider using gluing tape. Its an amazing product which simplfies and neatens the tubular experience. My favorite is the tape made by Mariposa.

Thanks for that! Never heard of such stuff, why I bought a tube of Continental's splooge when I bought new shrouds & cables early last week.

Even without new rims there's opportunities to experiment with the front that was last glued up about the same time as the back. And I have two brand-spanking-new(OS) Vittoria's standing by, just in case, with no glue ever having been carefully spread onto their inner tire tapes.

Continental's glue-application instructions have to have been written by lawyers!! THREE coats? With 72 HOURS between EACH coat?

No surprise tape's The Better Choice!

DiabloScott 07-23-23 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by spclark (Post 22961751)
Thanks for that! Never heard of such stuff, why I bought a tube of Continental's splooge when I bought new shrouds & cables early last week.
No surprise tape's The Better Choice!

This is a matter of some disagreement in here. Both techniques have their adherents.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1a961b0259.jpg

Classtime 07-23-23 06:34 PM

Tape and Di2 go together well.

Continental’s glueing instructions are effective. After a brutal roadside tire change at mile 100 of a 130 mile event, I use less and less and continue to struggle with tire changes.

pastorbobnlnh 07-24-23 03:46 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22961768)
This is a matter of some disagreement in here. Both techniques have their adherents.

:thumb: Very well played!

spclark back to tape: Aggressive riders tend to avoid tape or they both tape and glue, which is fine and their preference. However, if you are more of a casual tubular rider, I find tape is the way to roll (:p take that DiabloScott!).

You have almost a decade on me, but probably like me you are not racing in criteriums, descending famous California mountain passes, or ever finding yourself in a bunch sprint contending for the Green Jersey at the end of a Tour de France stage. We ride tubulars because we can and enjoy their plush, smooth, and lightweight ride--- and not because they provide a performance edge. Tape makes mounting 10 times easier, faster and is 10 times cleaner in the process.

Tape is a win-win for us :50:!

spclark 07-24-23 05:36 AM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 22962289)
...but probably like me you are not racing in criteriums, descending famous California mountain passes, or ever finding yourself in a bunch sprint contending for the Green Jersey at the end of a Tour de France stage.!

Yep, that's me. Casual rider, compete only with myself. Immediate and long term goals are to keep my Personal Running Gear in proper shape so as to be able to do the things I enjoy with it for as long as I possibly can.

By all means KEEP MOVING has been my mantra for decades after seeing what happens to folks I've known and loved decline after losing mobility either from habit (most often) or choice (less common).

In the weeks since I bought then began riding my Kona I've become more flexible and seen my heart rate show evidence of endurance. Prior to that my exclusive exercise had been walking an average of six or seven miles during shifts three times a week in a hardware store doing customer service. That alone has kept me in decent shape but, being mindful of that mantra, I want more out of life than bad feet from just walking around on a concrete floor.

I'm dancing about whether to switch to clinchers on the MB, whether it'd have any meaningful benefit long term for me. Right now the MB seems to be in Fine Shape, I simply need to do a better job of gluing its tires to those old Mavic rims going forward. I have two new Viterra tires standing by as spares as well as some limited experience from a decade or more ago taking sew-ups apart to patch leaks. These days it may be easier just installing new tubes or maybe the foam inserts I've seen advertised for some 'run-flat' security when I'm miles from home some afternoon. Switching to clinchers appears to be somewhat complicated given the bits I'm dealing with that all have to play well together.

Thanks for your input. I'm forever grateful for the advice and comments I get from folks more experienced than I can claim on the forums I'm inclined to bother with.

Aardwolf 07-24-23 06:42 AM

One thing I'd suggest is getting some tire sealant.

I discovered tubulars 2 years back when I bought a bike with some on, now I only ride tubulars (Vittoria Rubino G+ 28mm on Mavic Monthlery Route).
But I built a set of clinchers when I though they were easier to fix, they sit in the corner as the strategic reserve.

I had a flat after 3 weeks and discovered Orange Seal which fixed it, then no flats for 1500 miles on 1.5oz per tire.
And I now use Jantex tape and think it's much better than Tufo tape.

spclark 07-25-23 09:18 AM

Thanks for that suggestion, I'll see if my LBS carries that Orange Seal stuff.

I bought two canisters of a Vittoria sealant, dispensed one into the two tubulars currently mounted on my MB. Unsettling experience in the doing was having the plastic end cap/valve adapter thingy on the top pop out of the canister's crimped ring, causing a mess when the foam inside kinda exploded out onto my hand, the floor, the wheel I was putting it into at the time.

I'll look for the OS stuff as a safer alternative, leave the second Vittoria for an 'emergency' hopefully never to happen.

And I think that I'll look about for components to build a pair of clincher wheels, maybe using my pair of Record hubs, keep the cost down. I have three Vittoria 'spare' new tires; at the rate I ride they ought to last me the rest of my biking life....

HM70 07-26-23 10:51 AM

Repairig a minimal sidewall cut
 
This is my first attempt at patching a tubular in probably 40 years. Used to be able to do it in an hour at the nearest coffee shop. Now I'm all thumbs and can't hardly see anymore! Good news is I still have my velox tin can kit and some fresh glue. It's a sidewall cut in an almost new generic "Kenda SC" tire. Seems to be quite well made. As you can see the cut occured in 2 places and is clean.
Two questions. What should I use for the boot and is Stans Tire Sealant going to work like latex to seal the threads on the sidewall? I've got an old 320tpi casing to use as the boot but is seems so thick. Wish I could de-laminate it and use just one layer of threads for the patch. Or a thinner option. Hate to sew it all back up and end up with a lumpy tire.
Thanks for any help
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2f6060baa1.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4bc5d81dbe.jpg
Ha! looks like snake bite

smontanaro 07-26-23 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by HM70 (Post 22964739)
It's a sidewall cut in an almost new generic "Kenda SC" tire.

As I understand it, the Kenda SC is/was a rebranded Veloflex Vlaaderen or ProTour. Not "generic." It seems they were used by team(s) where Kenda was a sponsor.

pastorbobnlnh 07-26-23 12:55 PM

I'd try using a small canvas patch. Probably about an inch beyond the hole. Hold in place with the glue.

HM70 07-26-23 03:34 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22964857)
As I understand it, the Kenda SC is/was a rebranded Veloflex Vlaaderen or ProTour. Not "generic." It seems they were used by team(s) where Kenda was a sponsor.

Oh no! Now I'm feeling much worse about the cuts. However the ride was not quite as supple as my Challenge Stradas were. And I noticed these latex tubes hold air much longer so they must be thicker. What I expected for price I payed. Thanks

MooneyBloke 07-26-23 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by HM70 (Post 22964739)
Two questions. What should I use for the boot and is Stans Tire Sealant going to work like latex to seal the threads on the sidewall?

My most recent repair used a boot made of duck cloth glued to the interior of the casing with E6000 cement. So far it seems to hold up well. I've never done this with a major sidewall cut though. I do have an example hanging around, and I might try to get that similarly patched. I'd be uncomfortable relying on that for serious use though. I suspect with any repair needing a boot, you are going to have a touch of lumpiness. On the other hand, I've had Vitts that were lumpy out of the box. I think the best thing is to get a Speedy Stitcher. With those, it's not too hard to redo the zig-zag stitch. I usually start and end my sewing three stitches from the part I open. As far as a latex for the casing and sticking base tape back, I'd look for Val-A Tear Mender. That's the closest thing to Jevelot's Tire Life I can find. Evidently carpet layers use this sort of thing too, so if you have a friend in flooring, you might have an alternative source.

SJX426 07-27-23 10:18 AM

I now need to get serious about tire repair with a 4th tire now with a hole.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e1e6ff9_3k.jpgDerosaFlatVitG+ on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0d88b39_3k.jpgDeRosaVitGFlatGlass on Flickr

Can I use the inner tube of an old unrideable sew-up as a patch source for latex patch?


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