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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

SirMike1983 01-05-17 06:49 PM

The chain case for the 26 inch Sports-style frame was different from the 28 inch or DL-1 chain case. The DL-1 case was designed with removable seat stays in mind because the DL-1 seat stays can be unbolted.

The Dawn/Sports style chain case was designed with fixed/brazed seat stays in mind, and slipped over those stationary seat stays. If you need to buy a chain case, make sure you get the one that suits your frame.

markk900 01-06-17 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 19291334)
I would like to see a clean chainring of creepy little men who share one head spinning around.

You asked :):
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf7b8bb31.jpg

gster 01-07-17 07:06 AM

Good Deal
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here's a bike on Toronto Kijiji. Raleigh Laurentian. Price, FREE!
It's in the east end of the city so I'll pass but looks to be the basis of a good project.

bwilli88 01-07-17 08:05 AM

If that Raleigh Laurentian was a 23in I would be begging you to try and facilitate it for me.

clubman 01-07-17 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 19296602)

That's not so nice! :innocent:

Spent 2 hours pulling the 52 apart. A real mess. Salient points. It has a braze on pulley mount even though it used a band clamp. First time I've actually seen a bolt in the full chainguard mount. CPSC should have implemented the Raleigh wheel retention system if any. I like it. Everything came apart (except fixed cup of course) but it all needs a good bath in OA. The rims may not be salvageable. Oh yes, under artificial basement light, it really looks green, in the daylight it's sea-blue. I've had two Humbers that never had this hue.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VW...7=w384-h681-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kb...r=w384-h681-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kH...V=w384-h681-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xS...=w1001-h563-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7x...m=w384-h681-no

gster 01-07-17 04:31 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19297663)
That's not so nice! :innocent:

Spent 2 hours pulling the 52 apart. A real mess. Salient points. It has a braze on pulley mount even though it used a band clamp. First time I've actually seen a bolt in the full chainguard mount. CPSC should have implemented the Raleigh wheel retention system if any. I like it. Everything came apart (except fixed cup of course) but it all needs a good bath in OA. The rims may not be salvageable. Oh yes, under artificial basement light, it really looks green, in the daylight it's sea-blue. I've had two Humbers that never had this hue.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VW...7=w384-h681-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kb...r=w384-h681-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kH...V=w384-h681-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xS...=w1001-h563-nohttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7x...m=w384-h681-no

My 1960 Superbe has that same recess on the front forks. The front wheel has been swapped out at some point and
doesn't locate properly. I suspect that there's a special nut required with a male spigot that should be used. Anyone have any info?

SirMike1983 01-07-17 06:00 PM

The recessed fork was dropped at some point in the 1960s. I have a '58 with the recessed fork and original wheel with original front nuts. The correct front nuts for that are shouldered rather than plain. The shoulder slips into drop-out and the nut itself goes into the recess. One of clubman's photos shows the shouldered nuts.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7x...m=w384-h681-no

gster 01-07-17 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19298329)
The recessed fork was dropped at some point in the 1960s. I have a '58 with the recessed fork and original wheel with original front nuts. The correct front nuts for that are shouldered rather than plain. The shoulder slips into drop-out and the nut itself goes into the recess. One of clubman's photos shows the shouldered nuts.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7x...m=w384-h681-no

I need to find a pair of those. I've adapted one of the inner sleeved nuts for the time being to hold the wheel in place. Otherwise it slips out of alignment.

clubman 01-07-17 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19298178)
My 1960 Superbe has that same recess on the front forks. The front wheel has been swapped out at some point and
doesn't locate properly. I suspect that there's a special nut required with a male spigot that should be used. Anyone have any info?

[QUOTE=SirMike1983;19298329]The recessed fork was dropped at some point in the 1960s. I have a '58 with the recessed fork and original wheel with original front nuts. The correct front nuts for that are shouldered rather than plain. The shoulder slips into drop-out and the nut itself goes into the recess. One of clubman's photos shows the shouldered nuts.

gster, I'm quite sure I have a pair of those nuts. I had a look but my shop is a mess but if I find them I'll let you know. In addition to Mikes info, an important part of the retention is the large washers that also slip over the shoulder. The depth of these washers is critical to a tight fit.

Question for y'all. There's another shouldered front axle setup where the lip/shoulder is on the cone and the recess is on the inside of the forks. When was that in use?

gster 01-08-17 07:16 AM

[QUOTE=clubman;19298415]

Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19298329)
The recessed fork was dropped at some point in the 1960s. I have a '58 with the recessed fork and original wheel with original front nuts. The correct front nuts for that are shouldered rather than plain. The shoulder slips into drop-out and the nut itself goes into the recess. One of clubman's photos shows the shouldered nuts.

gster, I'm quite sure I have a pair of those nuts. I had a look but my shop is a mess but if I find them I'll let you know. In addition to Mikes info, an important part of the retention is the large washers that also slip over the shoulder. The depth of these washers is critical to a tight fit.

Question for y'all. There's another shouldered front axle setup where the lip/shoulder is on the cone and the recess is on the inside of the forks. When was that in use?

I would certainly appreciate that and could offer something in trade. Most of my bikes have the inner recess.

nlerner 01-08-17 10:48 AM

I don't usually post CL ads here, but this later model 23" Sports in white for $100 seems like a good find:

Raleigh bicycle

https://c7.staticflickr.com/1/584/31...d34aba09_c.jpg00I0I_5NMYoVBZGNP_1200x900

BigChief 01-08-17 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19299426)
I don't usually post CL ads here, but this later model 23" Sports in white for $100 seems like a good find:

Raleigh bicycle

https://c7.staticflickr.com/1/584/31...d34aba09_c.jpg00I0I_5NMYoVBZGNP_1200x900

This is an unusually good find. I've been scanning New England CL for months. Figures that this would show up the minute I go to Florida. Oh well, thats life.

BigChief 01-08-17 11:30 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I brought the roadster with me to southern Florida instead of my Sprite this year. This bike just works for me somehow. Very fun on the unpaved, hilly roads up north, but geared a bit low for the flat paved roads here. My Sports bikes all have the earlier 48T chainwheels. This 72 roadster has a 46T, so it's 46x22. If I lived here I'd use a 19T or 20T cog. I do miss the medium ratio spread of the S5, but I'm still having fun with my latest project.
Attachment 548266

Salubrious 01-09-17 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19298415)
Question for y'all. There's another shouldered front axle setup where the lip/shoulder is on the cone and the recess is on the inside of the forks. When was that in use?

Seems to be a late 50s and into 1960s thing.

My Humber Sports are early 50s and not set up that way. My '62 Raleigh is. My '72 Superbe is not and its a lot harder to remove the wheel.

clubman 01-09-17 05:14 PM

Thanks, gotta check my 57.

BigChief 01-09-17 05:51 PM

The later Raleighs went way overboard with wheel retention. The forks can be so tight that you need either three hands, a fork spreader or a mallet to hit the axle to get the wheel off. Plenty of bikes have forks that clear the front hub OLD without fork spreading and I've never had the wheel fall off one yet. I would much rather snug the axle nuts from time to time than have a wheel that couldn't be removed on the road.

markk900 01-09-17 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19302201)
Seems to be a late 50s and into 1960s thing.

My Humber Sports are early 50s and not set up that way. My '62 Raleigh is. My '72 Superbe is not and its a lot harder to remove the wheel.

My Humber Sport is a 49 and also not set up that way - it has the exact same fork end as @clubman and a shouldered nut with a washer that the shoulder goes into, just like the other picture.

clubman 01-10-17 09:21 AM

Just thought I'd show the copper plating on the 52 SA trigger. I've seen brass before but this is new to me. The rust was hiding the patina.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ac...=w1470-h828-no

bazil4696 01-11-17 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19298380)
I need to find a pair of those. I've adapted one of the inner sleeved nuts for the time being to hold the wheel in place. Otherwise it slips out of alignment.

Bring a pair of hex nuts to the Brantford bike show next month and I'll be happy to machine the shoulders if you can tell me the diameter and depth of the shoulder. Perhaps someone on here can measure factory nuts and forward the sizes to one of us.
Then I'll mail em back to you when I'm done.

gster 01-11-17 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by bazil4696 (Post 19306051)
Bring a pair of hex nuts to the Brantford bike show next month and I'll be happy to machine the shoulders if you can tell me the diameter and depth of the shoulder. Perhaps someone on here can measure factory nuts and forward the sizes to one of us.
Then I'll mail em back to you when I'm done.

That would be a big favour.

clubman 01-11-17 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by bazil4696 (Post 19306051)
Bring a pair of hex nuts to the Brantford bike show next month and I'll be happy to machine the shoulders if you can tell me the diameter and depth of the shoulder. Perhaps someone on here can measure factory nuts and forward the sizes to one of us.
Then I'll mail em back to you when I'm done.

I'll get a measurement on those once I get my digital caliper batteries replaced. Still looking for my other set of OEM nuts.

bazil4696 01-11-17 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19306196)
I'll get a measurement on those once I get my digital caliper batteries replaced. Still looking for my other set of OEM nuts.

there's tons of time.

thumpism 01-11-17 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by sirpecangum (Post 19306617)
Sadly, I think the frame and most other parts are beyond repair, at least for me.

Nonsense. While rusty it is not rusted away. Use OA to remove as much rust as you can, clearcoat whatever is left and put it back together. The bike has too much character, unless you just need the parts for a different bike. You've already done the hard work.

dweenk 01-11-17 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by sirpecangum (Post 19306617)
A 1966 Raleigh Sports of some kind I guess. I've not seen this head badge style myself before. Overall it is in a bad way. I like the Raleigh motif on the frame tube ends and wheel and cotter pin nuts, grip-shift for the SA AW gears and dynamo with working lights. I've rebuilt the wheels and they've cleaned up surprising well and both are fully functional with Made in England Dunlop tubes and Michelin "Roadster" tyres. Sadly, I think the frame and most other parts are beyond repair, at least for me.

I think that is a Raleigh anniversary headbadge, others on the forum would know for sure.

noglider 01-11-17 02:36 PM


Originally Posted by sirpecangum (Post 19306800)
Character! Funny but true however, I attach a photo of character steel, failed. Frightening. What is OA? I have tried clear coating steel before with polyurethane and it rusts.

I always knew that this is possible, but I'd never seen it until now.

thumpism 01-11-17 03:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by sirpecangum (Post 19306800)
Character! Funny but true however, I attach a photo of character steel, failed. Frightening. What is OA? I have tried clear coating steel before with polyurethane and it rusts.

OA is Oxalic Acid, used for rust removal and probably an ingredient in brand name products that do the same thing. Once the surface is rust-free, coat it with something like sprayed-on clear lacquer or enamel to protect the bare metal surface. Your bike really looks okay to me other than the (admittedly prolific) surface rust. Considering how much work you've already done, it would be a shame just to let it go.

The local co-op had the bones of a ladies' Raleigh Sports that appeared to have been kept at the bottom of the sea for a while, but it was gone last time I went by. If I didn't already have one I'd have considered trying to bring that one back. My own 3-speeds are worn and chipped with some rust but are not nearly this bad.
Attachment 548659

desconhecido 01-11-17 03:14 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 19306975)
I always knew that this is possible, but I'd never seen it until now.

what do you think, does it look like a corrosion problem or the result of bad construction/brazing? Well, yeah, there's a lot of rust, but I don't see any brass in the joints that pulled apart. I'm thinking that what this may be an example of is water intrusion into the interface between the frame tubes and the lugs -- a space that should have been penetrated with brazing material and that should have been immune from water penetration.

I've seen some pretty poor brazing jobs on Raleighs from the 70s: poor fitting lugs and massive and obvious voids.

Pretty ugly, in any event.

desconhecido 01-11-17 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by sirpecangum (Post 19306800)
Character! Funny but true however, I attach a photo of character steel, failed. Frightening. What is OA? I have tried clear coating steel before with polyurethane and it rusts.

OA is oxalic acid which will convert rust into some sort of yellow crud which can be washed away. It's great to soak rusty chromed parts in and works a miracle, but I don't like the idea of soaking frames in it as I don't see any way to get all the crud out and any area inside the frame that doesn't get treated with some sort of inhibitor will likely rust again. Also, I think that there is a possibility of hydrogen embrittlement though I don't know if that's a serious concern or not. Lots of people disagree with me on OA as a frame soak and get good results so maybe I'm just outgassing.

If you are going to clearcoat over areas with rust, you're going to need to stop the corrosion process first. Some sort of stuff with phosphoric acid in it will do that -- it's what is used in the auto repair industry to remove the unavoidable surface rust that forms almost instantaneously on any bare, untreated iron or carbon steel. The process is to remove the rust mechanically and than treat with some sort of phosphate agent which converts remaining rust to some phosphate compound which will inhibit future rust. Smooth it out and paint either color or clearcoat. Sometimes people refer to the results of phosphoric acid treatment as "etching." Paint sticks well to treated iron/steel and it won't corrode if protected from the elements, i.e. painted.

That broken frame is indeed ugly, but I question how much of the problem was from poor assembly/brazing. Looks like the areas of the top tube and bottom tube that were actually brazed are pretty small.

desconhecido 01-11-17 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19307085)
The local co-op had the bones of a ladies' Raleigh Sports that appeared to have been kept at the bottom of the sea for a while, but it was gone last time I went by. If I didn't already have one I'd have considered trying to bring that one back. My own 3-speeds are worn and chipped with some rust but are not nearly this bad.
Attachment 548659

Yeah, that's pretty nasty but even the ugliest Sports is likely to have something worth salvage. Even just the headset or bottom bracket could prove useful if you find a bike more worthy of attention. Beats the heck out of buying stuff from Greece on ebay. And, a fixable AW hub alone is probably worth the price of a crapped out Sports.

edited: Back when the hurricane hit Galveston/Houston (Ike in, as I remember, 2008), Galveston flooded --pretty much of the island under sea water. I've seen some bikes and cars salvaged after the flood and it's a very, very depressing sight.

boattail71 01-11-17 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 19286253)

On the Yellow Jersey site there is an ad for a repro reflector in black that looks pretty good. I get the impression that some things on their site may not actually be available. I've never bought from them, I think others have with good results.

Does anyone have the website or other contact information on "Yellow Jersey" or any other supplier for that matter for a reflector and housing?

Thanks!


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