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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

noglider 09-23-10 09:09 AM

jedge76, I hope you've ridden it at least a bit before taking it apart. It's safe to do so, and you deserve some riding fun before you deprive yourself for a while.

And yes, the AW is pretty simple, but when you think about its longevity and reliability, it can boggle your mind. I have some old ones, too, and the work as good as new.

I agree that any oil (unless it's entirely inappropriate) is better than the perfect oil, which doesn't exist. 30w is probably best but 10w30 is close enough, especially if it's already on hand.

Sixty Fiver 09-23-10 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew F (Post 11510960)
Got one over 60 years old that ticks like a fine watch, they are amazing!

The best AW hubs I have used have been from the 40's and 50's... these were made at SA's peak when the QC was exceptionally high and their performance is consistently good.

60's hubs are decent and 70's hubs are hit and miss in that they still work but do seem to have more problems and there is quite a variance in how smooth one hub is to the next.

I see a lot of low mileage three speeds at the co-op from the 60's and 70's and after tuning them up would take the 60's hubs everytime and it would be hard to get me to part with my older AW's.

noglider 09-23-10 04:40 PM

I agree. I don't have much (or any) experience with 1940's hubs, but yes, those from the 50's and 60's are better than those from the 70's and later. There was a lot of worker discontent and other major problems in industrial England in the 70's and later. Plus John S Allen said that Sturmey Archer stopped using Cyanide Hardening in their hubs at around 1970 (IIRC). To me, that sounds like they had to make things less toxic, at the cost of parts being not as hard as before. Harder is better in things like this, of course.

jedge76 09-23-10 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by AL NZ (Post 11510618)
Jedge, I am no oil expert, what I know is just from car oil changes.
Californ-i-a is fairly warm no snow, yeah?
So 10W-30 is good for cold engine start up, and probably good for bicycle bearings in frozen climes, but you probably don't need it in warm ol'CA
4-stroke lawnmower oil is 30-viscosity and, I understand, almost the same as the original-spec singe-viscosity oil as specified by Sturmey Archer 'back in the day', as they say.

Having said this, I personally think we all fret way too much about what is the best oil/grease/etc, and anything is better than nothing, and regular attention and the occasional clean of the bearings probably exceeds the original design parameters.
None of us can generate the loads that a bog-standard home-handiman trailer's wheel bearings are subjected to, so even the cheapest modern grease should be ample for all cycle bearings.

Main thing is, never grease the Sturmey 3 speed (but maybe just its outer bearings to minimise water ingress)

Good point AL. That would probably be overkill and a little too heavy in the climate I live in. Yes, we have a dry climate w/ pretty mild winters (no snow at all). You're right on and I appreciate you making that point.

jedge76 09-23-10 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 11511647)
jedge76, I hope you've ridden it at least a bit before taking it apart. It's safe to do so, and you deserve some riding fun before you deprive yourself for a while.

And yes, the AW is pretty simple, but when you think about its longevity and reliability, it can boggle your mind. I have some old ones, too, and the work as good as new.

I agree that any oil (unless it's entirely inappropriate) is better than the perfect oil, which doesn't exist. 30w is probably best but 10w30 is close enough, especially if it's already on hand.

I really does boggle the mind when you look at other bikes from the past and present. The SA "clicks" right along and I don't hear any abnormal noises, at least that I can tell. I'm probably over thinking the "perfect oil", as you say.

I'm slowly putting it together, just doing some Windex and a soft wash pad on the chrome today....just for kicks. I need to wait for the weekend, preceded by a decent night's rest, before I get it together. I will ride it 1st to at least listen and feel for any problems. I have some expert help on the rest of the stuff, so that should expedite things a bit after that. I can't wait...it's like cabin fever!

I'm really impressed w/ the looks of everything from the paint to the SA clicking and right down to the top-notch shape of the chain. Even the tires seem original and still have the nipples on the rubber. They're dry rotted to some degree, but I think that says a lot. We'll see. Hopefully, soon. Real soon.

curbtender 09-23-10 07:19 PM

half a can...
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...r/DSC00452.jpg

gbalke 09-24-10 07:23 AM

4 Attachment(s)
I received this Google alert this morning; anyone looking for a green Sports in a 23" frame?

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...969266179.html


Green RALEIGH SPORTS vintage mens English 3 speed bike. 23" seat tube length. 32 1/2" stand over height of top tube. Made in Nottingham, England it features full fenders, Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub, 26 x 1 3/8 rims and tires, newer seat and handlebars. Phone number - 612-202-2900. Price is $125.


http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=171110
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=171111
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=171112
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=171113

•Location: Minneapolis
•it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests



PostingID: 1969266179

rudypyatt 09-26-10 06:09 PM

Close enough?
 
Not English, but it is an old school three-speed. There's one like it (condition notwithstanding), even the same color, that's been locked to the rack in front of my apartment building for more than a year. I've never seen it ridden, tires a flat etc. If I can find out who owns it, I may try to buy it. Thoughts?

http://johnsvintagebikes.com/sold/74..._02/index.html

noglider 09-26-10 09:12 PM

Buy it. It probably rides very much like the Raleigh. It might be a bit heavier, but what the heck.

jedge76 09-26-10 11:22 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 11528292)
Buy it. It probably rides very much like the Raleigh. It might be a bit heavier, but what the heck.

I think they're about the same weight...doesn't matter anymore once it gets to 40 lbs.! lol I love the old Chicago Racers and this one looks to have a lot of potential.

wahoonc 09-27-10 05:26 AM


Originally Posted by AL NZ (Post 11510635)
interesting, your use of the phrase 'ticking along'.

Its origins are probably obscure, but it is the perfect description of a good Sturmey Archer hub, and maybe that is the source..

May well be; being the owner of more AW hubs than anything else, it is the sound that I listen for when I hop on a bike. Current collection of bikes is around 30 with over half of them using the AW, AG or FG hubs. I have one with a Shimano Nexus 7 but it isn't the same sound.

Aaron :)

kingfish254 09-27-10 10:31 PM

Hey Tom (noglider), Did you see this Raleigh Twenty in your neck of the woods?
http://cnj.craigslist.org/bik/1971468824.html

noglider 09-27-10 10:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Thanks for the heads up, but I have a 1973 Twenty. Still don't know what to do with it. It's nice, I guess, but I am not enamored of small wheel bikes, at least not yet.

It's good to see ads like that, to clarify the bike's value. $150 is what I would think.

I used my Twenty as a lesson: My friend has a 9 year old daughter. Little girl was struggling with her 24" Huffy mountain bike. It was a real heap o junk. My friend asked what I had that was better. I had a nice bike with 20" wheels. I was afraid that Sylvia (the girl) wouldn't want to take a step down in wheel size and possibly be teased by her friends. I showed her my Twenty and said it's MY bike, and it has 20" wheels.

I'm not sure if that made a difference, but when she got on the bike I had for her, she grinned really big.

Sorry about the underexposed picture. This bike has aluminum rims, cantilever brakes, a rear derailleur, and six speeds. It's a really sensible bike, and I think she could ride it for a long time with a big seatpost and stem. I don't like 24" wheel-bikes. I'd like to find more bikes like this.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...4&d=1285648844

ColonelJLloyd 09-28-10 11:33 AM


Originally Posted by gbalke (Post 11516868)
I received this Google alert this morning; anyone looking for a green Sports in a 23" frame?

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hn...969266179.html

I just finished restoring my 1973 Sports in Ivory Glaze (I'll post pics this week). Still, if that was on my local CL, I'd buy it and own two!

AngryScientist 09-28-10 11:44 AM

cool thread, just picked up one myself, i can tell i'm going to like the 3-speed ride!

gna 09-28-10 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by ColonelJLloyd (Post 11536819)
I just finished restoring my 1973 Sports in Ivory Glaze (I'll post pics this week). Still, if that was on my local CL, I'd buy it and own two!

By the time I got into town Sunday (was riding the Raleighs on Madeline Island) it was gone.

Sixty Fiver 09-28-10 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 11534680)
I used my Twenty as a lesson: My friend has a 9 year old daughter. Little girl was struggling with her 24" Huffy mountain bike. It was a real heap o junk. My friend asked what I had that was better. I had a nice bike with 20" wheels. I was afraid that Sylvia (the girl) wouldn't want to take a step down in wheel size and possibly be teased by her friends. I showed her my Twenty and said it's MY bike, and it has 20" wheels.

Most of the time my 10 year old daughter rides her Raleigh 3 speed but at times she likes to bust out her 24 inch wheeled mtb... she looks so small on the bike but has excellent bike handling skills and it is a good fit.

My oldest daughter struggled with 24 inch wheels even though she was tall enough to ride a bike this size and will probably never look past her 20 inch Raleigh which will carry her through adulthood... she is already five foot two (with eyes of brown).

Riding my own 2o has inspired a few other folks to try them and they have found they enjoy riding them for the same reasons I do as they are quick and nimble and very comfortable bikes to ride.

jedge76 10-01-10 04:42 PM

What's everyone's technique for removing a stubborn cotter pin?

Andrew F 10-01-10 06:13 PM

I beat on one for a hour, took it to my LBS asking to use their cotter press? He produced a larger hammer and a punch, two hits and it was out, smiled and said "use a bigger hammer".

JohnDThompson 10-01-10 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by jedge76 (Post 11555586)
What's everyone's technique for removing a stubborn cotter pin?

Back in the day, we used this:
http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/VAR_no7.JPG

Now, I use this:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_m2_YJYFcr3...otterPress.jpg

Andrew F 10-01-10 09:28 PM


I love it! So much better than a hammer & Punch and a 1/10 of the size and wt. of the presses I've seen! We did you get it?

Sixty Fiver 10-01-10 10:06 PM


Originally Posted by jedge76 (Post 11555586)
What's everyone's technique for removing a stubborn cotter pin?

I have a Park cotter pin press that has been serving me well for quite a long time... when it dies I will make one of my own.

noglider 10-01-10 10:16 PM

The standard way is hammering. You MUST, MUST, MUST support the axle when you do this. Otherwise, your hammering force goes into the bearings, and you will brinell your races and cups. Hammer hard, and if it doesn't budge, hit it with a bigger hammer.

The worst cotter I had was fairly recent. I had to drill a hole down the middle of it. That alone took a lot of elbow grease. Then I hammered and hammered again, and it finally came out.

Sixty Fiver 10-01-10 10:21 PM

If a cotter cannot be pressed out cut it off flush with the crank and then drive it out... support things well and don't be gentle when you hit it..

JohnDThompson 10-02-10 11:29 AM


Originally Posted by Andrew F (Post 11556884)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_m2_YJYFcr3...otterPress.jpg
I love it! So much better than a hammer & Punch and a 1/10 of the size and wt. of the presses I've seen! We did you get it?

Bikesmith Design sells them: http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html


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