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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Drillium Dude 03-19-23 01:16 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22828785)

Question:

When you have two nice wheel sets -- one clincher and one tubular that go with your weekend 50 mile local ride nice bike, which wheel set to you choose under the following conditions? Currently wet roads, fog, mist, and light rain likely for the rest of the day.

When it's wet, I take the clinchers. How about you?

I avoid riding in the wet (but I've been caught out by sudden weather changes mid-ride more than once), but if I did: clinchers every time.

Road debris tends to stick around longer in wet conditions, and said debris is a common cause of punctures. I'd rather hole a tube riding with clinchers than tubulars. Plus, imagine trying to swap out a spare tubular - particularly if using tape vice glue - in wet, nasty conditions.

That be my take.

DD

masi61 03-19-23 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22828785)
Question:
When you have two nice wheel sets -- one clincher and one tubular that go with your weekend 50 mile local ride nice bike, which wheel set to you choose under the following conditions?
Currently wet roads, fog, mist, and light rain likely for the rest of the day.

When it's wet, I take the clinchers. How about you?

:

my interest has been triggered by this query...


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22833665)
I avoid riding in the wet (but I've been caught out by sudden weather changes mid-ride more than once), but if I did: clinchers every time.

Road debris tends to stick around longer in wet conditions, and said debris is a common cause of punctures. I'd rather hole a tube riding with clinchers than tubulars. Plus, imagine trying to swap out a spare tubular - particularly if using tape vice glue - in wet, nasty conditions.

That be my take.

DD

What about "rain" tires? From what I can tell these tubulars : Michelin Power Cup Racing Line Tubular Tire - 25-622 - black | BIKE24

would be very grippy in the wet. Probably too nice to trash this way, but I wouldn't mind riding a set of tubulars like this in the wet.

Classtime 03-19-23 09:16 AM

Like DD pointed out, punctures are more likely when the roads are wet.

masi61 03-19-23 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22833866)
Like DD pointed out, punctures are more likely when the roads are wet.

Maybe so. My titanium Veritas (road bike) is clad with road tubeless tires that ride well in the wet & so long as they have had their sealant refreshed are pretty impervious to flats…

But the crazy side of me STILL desires a road racing set-up with grippy (tubular) rain tires just to check out the ride. Black sidewalls would be a better choice than tan sidewalls here. We all know how gross tan sidewall tubulars look after heavy rain riding…

79pmooney 03-19-23 11:17 AM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22833665)
I avoid riding in the wet (but I've been caught out by sudden weather changes mid-ride more than once), but if I did: clinchers every time.

Road debris tends to stick around longer in wet conditions, and said debris is a common cause of punctures. I'd rather hole a tube riding with clinchers than tubulars. Plus, imagine trying to swap out a spare tubular - particularly if using tape vice glue - in wet, nasty conditions.

That be my take.

DD

I commuted for years on sewups. Cheap cottons and cheap diamond tread cyclocross in snow country winter. One reason was that tire changes in foul weather were no harder than in the best of conditions. Now I never used tape. Always Tubasti. Peel flatted tire off, stick the spare on, ride carefully the first few miles and abstain from hard cornering. Re-glue when I got home,

I also used glass catchers with my fenders because the rear fender prevented the hand wipe and at night or in rain, I often couldn't see glass. Rear catcher mounted at the chainstay bridge, front under the crown. I think I drilled out the fender rivets and replaced them with screws but its been a long time.

Timely topic! My new fenders for my TiCycles just arrived at the shop. SKS Blumels with the Esge silver/plastic/metal technology. To be painted with 2-part yellow epoxy paint. Yellow fenders for that fire engine red bike - my vision from conception. Who knew yellow road fenders would be so hard to get? Need to do this glass catcher drilling before paint! (That bike is my par excellence go anywhere, climb anything all weather bike. Fenders, ti, sealed bearings. Water doesn't phase it. Race short chainstays to put enough weight on the rear tire to grip in the wet when I'm out of the saddle and pulling as hard as I can. A real Pacific NW bike.)

79pmooney 03-19-23 11:43 AM

My intro back to clinchers ~1988. Living in the Ballard community of Seattle. Used to ride north following the Puget Sound shore but in a couple of miles on very quiet roads. There was a descent into Woodinville that had a 90 degree bend at the bottom. I knew it very well and had done it many times in the wet on sewups. First time with clinchers - winter NW wet. Maybe light ran but I recall seeing OK. Hit that turn and knew instantly I did not have the traction to make it. Expressed the F word very load because I knew exactly what I was in for. The road rash, the bruises, the wet dirty ... At the apex, tires let go and I went for the slide. Outcome exactly as expected.

As soon as I slid to a stop, an attractive young lady appeared. Had to apologize for what she just heard.

And clincher vs tubular for cornering traction? The new clinchers have very, very good tread (the Vittoria Open Paves and I assume the G2.0 Controls; the regular G+ are very good) but I bet, in the real world, the tubulars with the same casing and tread do better. And I've done my crashes. I won't take either to their limit unless that is what I have to do to stay ER free. So someone else is going to have to do that research. (I'd have to glue the tubbies on hard to max out the turns. If I raced, yeah, but otherwise? I'll take the knowledge that I will roll the tire before the tread slips so I have a tire feasible to change on the road. (I ride with brakes for a reason.)

Now, if my hunches are right, my Vitt G2.0 Control 30c tubulars ought to grip like flypaper.

Drillium Dude 03-19-23 01:38 PM


Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 22833815)
:

What about "rain" tires? From what I can tell these tubulars : Michelin Power Cup Racing Line Tubular Tire - 25-622 - black | BIKE24 would be very grippy in the wet.

Speaking only for myself, it's not a matter of grip.

Drive train components wear exponentially faster when used in wet conditions as the road debris I mentioned affixes itself to the chain, which in turn transfers it to the rings and cogs. It's akin to sandpaper slowly but surely wearing away at the moving parts. Brake pads transfer that same grit to the rim's braking surfaces, which in turn gets onto the tire sidewalls; both actions shorten the life of the rims and tires.

Rain-riding - for me - is a zero-sum game, because I'm not training, touring, or commuting, but riding primarily for fun and fitness. I can always wait for the next sunny and clear day :)

DD

Drillium Dude 03-19-23 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 22833924)

But the crazy side of me STILL desires a road racing set-up with grippy (tubular) rain tires just to check out the ride. Black sidewalls would be a better choice than tan sidewalls here.

We all know how gross tan sidewall tubulars look after heavy rain riding…

We're talking aesthetics here, but I'm in total agreement! It's also been shown the additional brake shoe residue build-up serves a role in decreasing the life of the tire's sidewalls if not cleaned off between wet rides.

Full disclosure: I also absolutely hate deep-cleaning a bike I've been obliged to ride in wet conditions. I feel more than a bit peeved at myself for having subjected my bike(s) to such abuse, when all they've ever done for me is provide innumerable moments of unadulterated happiness ;)

DD

masi61 03-19-23 02:59 PM


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22834129)
Speaking only for myself, it's not a matter of grip.

Drive train components wear exponentially faster when used in wet conditions as the road debris I mentioned affixes itself to the chain, which in turn transfers it to the rings and cogs. It's akin to sandpaper slowly but surely wearing away at the moving parts. Brake pads transfer that same grit to the rim's braking surfaces, which in turn gets onto the tire sidewalls; both actions shorten the life of the rims and tires.

Rain-riding - for me - is a zero-sum game, because I'm not training, touring, or commuting, but riding primarily for fun and fitness. I can always wait for the next sunny and clear day :)

DD


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude (Post 22834141)
We're talking aesthetics here, but I'm in total agreement! It's also been shown the additional brake shoe residue build-up serves a role in decreasing the life of the tire's sidewalls if not cleaned off between wet rides.

Full disclosure: I also absolutely hate deep-cleaning a bike I've been obliged to ride in wet conditions. I feel more than a bit peeved at myself for having subjected my bike(s) to such abuse, when all they've ever done for me is provide innumerable moments of unadulterated happiness ;)

DD

I have made washing and polishing my bikes a fun ritual that I try to stay caught up on. Rain rides are adventure for me and some of my best training is done on the crap days. I have a soft nylon paint brush that flows water through a ball valve when connected to the garden hose. I spray a dilute solution of Dawn dish detergent with Simple Green then scrub my tire sidewalls, rim sidewalls, take a toothbrush to my rim brake pads and rinse with clear water. The whole process goes quickly and I also wear a magnifier to be able to visualize where the gritty nastiness lives.

My tubeless wheelset is built with Chinese made DT Swiss R460 tubeless compatible rims. The sidewall machining on these is good and the rims themselves I only paid about $40 each for (pre-Covid pricing). I'm about to add at least one tubular tire/wheel bike to the stable here soon. The Velocity Major Tom rims have nicely machined sidewalls but they are also mirror polished. I may well cringe if I ride these in the rain and abrade up the pristine sidewalls. Maybe I will report back on the ride of this classic/modern wheelset when it takes its maiden voyage on my rescused size 57 silver Masi Gran Criterium.

Drillium Dude 03-19-23 04:12 PM


Originally Posted by masi61 (Post 22834204)

I have made washing and polishing my bikes a fun ritual that I try to stay caught up on. Rain rides are adventure for me and some of my best training is done on the crap days. I have a soft nylon paint brush that flows water through a ball valve when connected to the garden hose. I spray a dilute solution of Dawn dish detergent with Simple Green then scrub my tire sidewalls, rim sidewalls, take a toothbrush to my rim brake pads and rinse with clear water. The whole process goes quickly and I also wear a magnifier to be able to visualize where the gritty nastiness lives.

My tubeless wheelset is built with Chinese made DT Swiss R460 tubeless compatible rims. The sidewall machining on these is good and the rims themselves I only paid about $40 each for (pre-Covid pricing). I'm about to add at least one tubular tire/wheel bike to the stable here soon. The Velocity Major Tom rims have nicely machined sidewalls but they are also mirror polished. I may well cringe if I ride these in the rain and abrade up the pristine sidewalls. Maybe I will report back on the ride of this classic/modern wheelset when it takes its maiden voyage on my rescused size 57 silver Masi Gran Criterium.

I don't mind tedious work like drilling or sanding/laying down numerous coats of clear on a CF saddle - but I do absolutely abhor deep-cleaning. Why? Because the end state is technically no different than if I simply didn't ride my bike in inclement weather. I suppose in that analysis, I'm a pragmatist at heart. I'll do the work to see an improvement as a result, but not to undo something - particularly if I could've avoided it from the jump. I understand others enjoy a deep-clean process, and that it can be a 'zen' thing to them - a similar example that comes to mind are those who love every aspect of wrenching (while I have a deep aversion to tearing down hubs and pedals, and adjusting their bearings - and can't build a wheel to save my life!). Different strokes!

In addition, while deep-cleaning after the fact is a good thing, there's no way to actively deep-clean during the ride. That's when the slow but constant additional wear is happening to the components. I've been running the same chainring pair, for example, on the Colnago Mexico for well over a decade - and there's probably another decade left in that pair, too. I don't 'shift heavy', avoid dirty, wet, nasty weather, and replace chains before their stretch begins to cause undue wear on the rings and cogs. Oh, and of course, periodic cleaning and lubrication of the chain, since it's the component picking up the gunk and distributing it to the rest of the drive train components.

I'm a 'clean-as-you-go' type. The extensive drive train component life I realize from this approach speaks for itself.

Again: speaking only for myself. I understand others have their own vision when it comes to their reason(s) and motivation(s) to ride their bike. It's all good!

DD

Positron400 03-20-23 02:37 PM

So, as previously mentioned, I am a proud owner of some vintage wheels which came with tubulars. Those are trash though and need to be replaced. How do I go about removing the old ones? Do i have to remove all residue? If so, how?
thanks for all the tips in advance!

DiabloScott 03-20-23 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by Positron400 (Post 22835192)
So, as previously mentioned, I am a proud owner of some vintage wheels which came with tubulars. Those are trash though and need to be replaced. How do I go about removing the old ones? Do i have to remove all residue? If so, how?
thanks for all the tips in advance!

Get a tire lever under there and just pry it off - it won't come all at once - you may have to work your way around. I'd bet either your glue is so old it'll be easy... or so cured that it'll be a royal PITA. If necessary, you can cut through the tire to rip it off like a roll of tape.

Unless there's a lot of build-up from previous glue jobs... it's fine (maybe even better) to leave it on there. If not and/or you want a clean rim... a wire brush on a drill will take off the crusty stuff without using solvents. You don't want any old tire fabric on the rim... but you'll get better bond with a little "tooth" on it.

mosinglespeeder 03-21-23 10:23 AM

within reason: leave the residue was what my master teacher taught me, it allows a better bond for the next layer of glue, and a few layers is nothing to sweat

if..however, you have a ton, yes, then lightly use wire brush or lightly sand down carefully and then leave appropriate amount to bond to
It's actually easier regluing than new rims that need a couple layers applied and dry time between

SJX426 03-21-23 03:15 PM

If you use a wire wheel, use a brass one only if crusty residue. Otherwise you may gum up your wire wheel. Brass minimized scoring the rim.

squirtdad 03-21-23 06:16 PM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22836322)
If you use a wire wheel, use a brass one only if crusty residue. Otherwise you may gum up your wire wheel. Brass minimized scoring the rim.

brass is the key word here :)

Positron400 03-22-23 12:18 AM

The tires were easily removed.. almost fell off, when i started to tear it. Must have been incredibly dry. I lightly sanded the residue off with sand paper, and put on some tubulars for pre-stretching

SJX426 03-22-23 06:07 AM


Originally Posted by Positron400 (Post 22836664)
The tires were easily removed.. almost fell off, when i started to tear it. Must have been incredibly dry. I lightly sanded the residue off with sand paper, and put on some tubulars for pre-stretching

Judge weather the remaining glue is dried out. If it is, then using a brass wheel will take it off in a matter of minutes for both wheels. Check you sandpaper to see if there is a gumming as a result of the sanding you did.

Trakhak 03-22-23 06:20 AM

If you're not sure of what brand the original rim glue was, best to clean it all off before gluing the next tire on. You might luck out, but be aware that some glues act as solvents for each other. (White glue and red = might end up dead.)

(Rebuttal to future replies: as I said, you might luck out.)

Positron400 03-22-23 06:24 AM


Originally Posted by Trakhak (Post 22836761)
If you're not sure of what brand the original rim glue was, best to clean it all off before gluing the next tire on. You might luck out, but be aware that some glues act as solvents for each other. (White glue and red = might end up dead.)

(Rebuttal to future replies: as I said, you might luck out.)

Thanks, I will try'n and thorougly remove all residue to be on the safe side. Decided to try Tape instead of glue b'cause i am impatient, and this seems like the easier roadside fix.

pastorbobnlnh 03-22-23 07:02 AM

I've had great results with tape and no issues whatsoever. Plus, aligning the tire is very easy.

Positron400 03-22-23 08:19 AM

Do i have to carry spare tape as well, if i puncture on the road, or will I just have to swap out the tire and be on my merry way with the old tape?

EVlove 03-22-23 09:17 AM

If anybody is looking for glue, you can save a few bucks on Vittoria Mastik at backcountry.com right now--$19.99 for the 250g can. Shipping is $5.95. https://www.backcountry.com/vittoria...ofessional-kit

Same deal also through competitivecyclist.com and steepandcheap.com (which is what I did), those are just different fronts for the same store. I've ordered from steep&cheap previously, their sale prices can be very good. Their offerings lean heavily towards MTB stuff but I did find a few more items (bottle cage, brake cables) to spread the shipping cost further.

Positron400 03-23-23 03:02 PM

More questions: When i eventually use tape for putting my tubulars on the rim, should i leave small section of rim w/o tape opposite the valve, in case i need to change the tubular on the road? How do you guys do it?

CV-6 03-24-23 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by Positron400 (Post 22838357)
More questions: When i eventually use tape for putting my tubulars on the rim, should i leave small section of rim w/o tape opposite the valve, in case i need to change the tubular on the road? How do you guys do it?

You will find the tire much easier to remove if you leave the gap.

Positron400 03-25-23 10:55 AM

Installed my first set of tubulars with TUFO rim tape. decided to leave 1 cm untaped opposite of the valve. First ride, and despite the fact that i am used to way wider tyres (30mm +), the 25C challngers rode suprisingly nice! Do i have to remove all the tape, when i eventually switch tires or puncture?


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