Originally Posted by aliasfox (Post 22556588)

One thing I've noticed over the past few rides is that I'm more likely to catch up/pass other riders as the road pitches upwards, but strangely enough, have the most trouble keeping pace on flats or slight descents.

Originally Posted by aliasfox (Post 22556789)

The FD probably just needs a little limit adjustment - she's a new build, almost all of her 250 miles has been this year, in Manhattan. The FD cable went a bit slack a couple of weeks ago - I pulled it taut, so it might be pulling against the outside limiter when I shift up. I just used that point to illustrate that I was going really slow for 20 seconds or so, just enough time to let her pass by in her aero tuck.

Definitely trying different bottle techniques - still not used to the underhanded, side of mouth drinking, but I like it when I remember to do it.

As for the 190-ish? Yeah, gained about ~10lbs during COVID (stopped running 10ks at the gym, 3-4 days a week), dropped about 5 of them this year. If I can stay away from fries, cheese, and donuts, I might knock myself down to low 180s... funnily enough, I set my Central Park PR this year, which is a little over a minute faster than my last time, set back in 2018 (when I was closer to 183 lbs).

Heading out to the SF Bay area in a few weeks (wife has a conference = free hotel) - I'm looking forward to working on a few climbs longer than ~0.5 mi while I'm out there...

Originally Posted by noimagination (Post 22557692)

You sound pretty experienced, so it's unlikely that I know better than you. However, when I notice I'm having a similar experience (catch people on hills, they catch me on flats) it is usually because I'm working a lot harder on the climbs (because climbs are supposed to be hard) and not as hard on the flats. So, someone maintaining a more steady-state effort might get passed by me on a climb (when I'm working harder than they are) but might pass me on the flat (when the ratio between my power output and theirs is different).

Originally Posted by scottfsmith (Post 22557306)

Every rider has a different sense of personal pace. I am like you in that I crank up the hills, I view them as my "intervals". The watts can be double up the hill for me (yes I have a power meter). I ride with other people sometimes and notice they have a different emphasis, some are even more all-out on hills but most are more even on hills vs not. If you do go harder up the hills you are getting into a deficit which you need to earn back in the flats by taking it easier.

Anyway I agree I would try going more even with the watts to see how your pace compares. But, what you are doing currently is in fact a better workout because you are getting some high-intensity intervals in on those hills.

Originally Posted by seypat (Post 22557316)

I get to the top of a hill..............when I get there. No reason to tire myself out with miles to go before I sleep.

I live on a small hill in my neighborhood. There's this guy that makes laps through the neighborhood. As he approaches the start of the hill, he's looking around to see if people are out working in their yards. If the yards are empty, he stays in his saddle and casually goes up the hill. But if he has an audience, he's out of the saddle, dancing on the pedals and making noises like it's a Cat climb in the TDF. He really puts on a show.. It's pretty funny to watch.

Originally Posted by koala logs (Post 22557369)

The other riders are trying to maintain constant power output which should be the same thing you're supposed to be doing unless you're doing some sort of interval training.



It can be sustained power output if you're going round and round that circuit at constant power for more 15 minutes without stopping. It doesn't matter if the road pitches up or down especially if the gradient is not too big and you can still pedal and apply power on the descents. Training will definitely help in that case.

Originally Posted by cyclezen (Post 22557411)

I'm sorry... I like a good scoop of hyperbole at times, hence the FD and 'water bottle' thing... I'm just not skilled at making it obvious , often... :twitchy:
I am with you, with your approach and attitude for it all... and doing the Central Park loop can really get to you, if you don;t get some fun mind games goin... True for most any Park Loops, anywhere.
Have a great time in SFO - Tunitas and Alpine/Pescadero were just 'perfect' in temps and quiet, last week... glad I can make the trip a couple times a year...
Ride On
Yuri

Originally Posted by noimagination (Post 22557692)

You sound pretty experienced, so it's unlikely that I know better than you. However, when I notice I'm having a similar experience (catch people on hills, they catch me on flats) it is usually because I'm working a lot harder on the climbs (because climbs are supposed to be hard) and not as hard on the flats. So, someone maintaining a more steady-state effort might get passed by me on a climb (when I'm working harder than they are) but might pass me on the flat (when the ratio between my power output and theirs is different).

Originally Posted by aliasfox (Post 22556588)

Hi everyone,

Now that my wife is in the office a couple of days a week, we've started spending part of our time in Manhattan again. So instead of riding suburban and rural rail trails, I've started doing laps of Central Park after work. Not the most exciting ride, but it's the only place where I can get a little bit of climbing in relatively close to home.

One thing I've noticed is that my performance isn't what I expect, and I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts. As one does laps around the park, one often ends up yo-yoing with other cyclists who ride at a similar pace. Depending on traffic, terrain, chugs of water, etc, one person might get a few hundred feet ahead, only for the other person to catch up as conditions shift. One thing I've noticed over the past few rides is that I'm more likely to catch up/pass other riders as the road pitches upwards, but strangely enough, have the most trouble keeping pace on flats or slight descents.

What's strange about this is that I'm not a small guy - 190 lbs (~86kg) if we haven't gone out to eat in the past week, often a few lbs more than that. The people who seem to outpace me on flats/slight descents are easily 20-30 lbs lighter than me, and they're often the same ones that I'm able to pass on Harlem Hill (for example).

Is it that I have decent burst/sprint wattage going up climbs that last 1-2 minutes? Or is it that I have pretty crappy sustained wattage on flat sections? Note, none of these sections are really longer than 3-4 minutes before the road pitches up or down, so I don't think it's a sustained wattage thing, either.

I don't think it matters, but for reference, I'm riding a Cannondale CAAD8, home-built with Force22 and Zonda wheels w/Michelin Pro4 Endurance.

Any thoughts on technique, training, diet, etc would be appreciated! Not looking to race anybody, just looking for explanations to help me understand.

Originally Posted by aliasfox (Post 22557835)

Apparently, according to one of the other posters, I probably am doing interval training, to a degree, without really trying to. Will try to be more even on one of my laps after work today.

Originally Posted by koala logs (Post 22557923)

Interval training is also very useful but if you seldom or never do constant power training, you should start doing it more often.

On some structured training programs, you'll have interval sessions on some days and constant power sessions on some.

On long rides, the best way to maximize average speed is by maintaining constant power output. You'll finish the ride in the fastest time by simply riding at constant power. Even if that sounds boring but that's how it works.

Originally Posted by koala logs (Post 22557923)

Interval training is also very useful but if you seldom or never do constant power training, you should start doing it more often.

On some structured training programs, you'll have interval sessions on some days and constant power sessions on some.

On long rides, the best way to maximize average speed is by maintaining constant power output. You'll finish the ride in the fastest time by simply riding at constant power. Even if that sounds boring but that's how it works.

Originally Posted by aliasfox (Post 22557112)

1. Doubtful my power to weight's any good - in fact, I'm almost certain I'm pitiful here :-P. I usually ride on the hoods, but even with bent elbows (tucked in) riding in the drops, I rarely reel anybody in.
2. I haven't checked recently, but I hold a cadence between 70-75rpm, and I have a corncob between 11-17 in the back. I'll shift up, only to shift back when my legs have decided they've had enough
3. You're the second commenter to suggest this - I might have to try taking it easy on the climbs, just to see what happens. I've always gone by the "it never hurts less, you just go faster" mantra, so maybe I should try making those climbs hurt less...

Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22558179)

Get a wider cassette. The corncob is forcing you to work harder on the climbs than you need to.

Originally Posted by aliasfox (Post 22558207)

The cassette is an 11-28, but is a corncob between 11-17, which is where I spend most of my time. Climbing isn't the issue for me here, rather flats performance.

Originally Posted by RChung (Post 22557187)

I'm thinking you don't use a corncob on OLH.

Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22558224)

Climbing isn't the issue, except you're passing people climbing who then drop you on the flats, which means you're working harder than they are on the climbs but not as hard on the flats. Generally big guys like us have less problem on the flats because aerodynamic drag doesn't increase all that much for us, but we can usually put out more power. And on slight descents we have even more advantage.

Personally, I can't spin a cadence of 70-75 unless I'm on a climb >6%. I find it much easier to put down the power on the flats at a higher cadence - more like 93-103.

Originally Posted by aliasfox (Post 22556588)

One thing I've noticed over the past few rides is that I'm more likely to catch up/pass other riders as the road pitches upwards, but strangely enough, have the most trouble keeping pace on flats or slight descents.

Originally Posted by aliasfox (Post 22558232)

I have trouble with cadences outside of 65-80 (rough estimate). Spinning at or above 90rpm for even a short amount of time has always gotten me winded.

Originally Posted by terrymorse (Post 22558237)

If you had a power meter, you’d see that your power is higher on the uphill than on the flat. I’m the same. My power meter drops off as soon as the road turns flat. It takes me much more concentration to keep the power from dropping.

I’m a “grimper” (climber), of course. Folks that can put out the power on the flat are “roulers”.

Originally Posted by aliasfox (Post 22558232)

I have trouble with cadences outside of 65-80 (rough estimate). Spinning at or above 90rpm for even a short amount of time has always gotten me winded.