More important upgrade: mechanical -> Hydro brakes or non tubeless -> tubeless wheels
I ride about 75% pavement and 25% gravel. All the terrain I’m on is relatively flat. No climbs longer than a few hundred feet if that. I’m a heavy rider (240 lbs) on a Poseidon X with tektro mech brakes and stock wheels.
I understand the safety and importance that comes with significant stopping power. Should I prioritize upgrading the brakes before the wheelset? I’m considering something from the juin tech lineup for brakes. Does anyone know the performance difference between hybrid flat mount hydraulic brakes and a fully hydraulic brake setup like something from sram/shimano? and I know I should ride up grades before thinking about upgrades… but I digress. |
Neither. Save the coins for the better bike you’ll inevitably want.
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Originally Posted by Mojo31
(Post 22538312)
Neither. Save the coins for the better bike you’ll inevitably want.
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Hydraulic brakes >> tubeless.
Hydraulic brakes will fundamentally improve your ride, your confidence, and lower your life insurance premium by thousands of dollars per year. If you already have tubeless-compatible rims, it is an easy and inexpensive "upgrade" anyway, but unless you are pinch-flatting all the time, it isn't going to be as life-changing an experience as getting hydraulic brakes (assuming they are Shimano and not SRAM). |
Upgrade your brakes and forget about tubeless.
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If you ride in puncture-prone areas, I say tubeless.
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Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
(Post 22538315)
Hydraulic brakes >> tubeless.
Hydraulic brakes will fundamentally improve your ride, your confidence, and lower your life insurance premium by thousands of dollars per year. If you already have tubeless-compatible rims, it is an easy and inexpensive "upgrade" anyway, but unless you are pinch-flatting all the time, it isn't going to be as life-changing an experience as getting hydraulic brakes (assuming they are Shimano and not SRAM). is there a point in shimano’s brake lineup where the upgrades are diminishing returns? Deore or Xt maybe? I know they have a off road and road lineup. I’m not too knowledgeable on the specifics of their brake hierarchy. |
Other people know better than I do, but XT dual piston would be ideal (quad piston if you are really heavily into mountain biking). The lower-level ones are probably perfectly adequate. A "good" wheelset for a heavy rider will be double or triple what you are quoting, but worth it if you start breaking spokes or bending rims. More spokes is better.
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I recently upgraded the brakes on a 2012 hybrid from Deore to Deore XT (M785 brake levers and calipers), BH90 hose, and RT81 Ice-Tech rotors
The braking (feel and performance) is significantly improved overkill for this bike - but I smile almost every time I pull a brake lever My guess is the current XT brake systems are an improvement compared to the older model I upgraded to . |
Originally Posted by Cnguyen323
(Post 22538328)
is there a point in shimano’s brake lineup where the upgrades are diminishing returns? Deore or Xt maybe? I know they have a off road and road lineup. I’m not too knowledgeable on the specifics of their brake hierarchy.
(again) I believe SLX and the better Shimano hydraulic brake systems use the same type / track / 'depth' rotors (and pads) and brake hoses ; both resin and sintered (metal) pads can be used The lower end stuff uses a wider track rotor and pad ... most of the rotors / pads (but not all) for these applications are resin only . |
The descents you are taking don’t really matter. For flat stuff, you could probably get away with putting your foot on the tire. Riding in traffic is a different story but on the open road or better yet, gravel road, no biggie.
The tires will make small a difference but it’s probably not enough to break the bank over. If you’re riding gravel tires around 40-50psi, you might consider doing a ghetto tubeless setup on your bike. It used to work great on mountain bikes before tubeless became standard. I wouldn’t do it at road bike pressure though. |
Originally Posted by rosefarts
(Post 22538401)
The descents you are taking don’t really matter. For flat stuff, you could probably get away with putting your foot on the tire. Riding in traffic is a different story but on the open road or better yet, gravel road, no biggie.
The tires will make small a difference but it’s probably not enough to break the bank over. If you’re riding gravel tires around 40-50psi, you might consider doing a ghetto tubeless setup on your bike. It used to work great on mountain bikes before tubeless became standard. I wouldn’t do it at road bike pressure though. I try to avoid traffic as much as possible. There are some high speed feeders and main suburban roads that I have to cross to get to my typical trails. |
Originally Posted by Cnguyen323
(Post 22538311)
I ride about 75% pavement and 25% gravel. All the terrain I’m on is relatively flat. No climbs longer than a few hundred feet if that. I’m a heavy rider (240 lbs) on a Poseidon X with tektro mech brakes and stock wheels.
I understand the safety and importance that comes with significant stopping power. Should I prioritize upgrading the brakes before the wheelset? I’m considering something from the juin tech lineup for brakes. Does anyone know the performance difference between hybrid flat mount hydraulic brakes and a fully hydraulic brake setup like something from sram/shimano? and I know I should ride up grades before thinking about upgrades… but I digress. The cantilevers, by the way, are on my loaded touring bike that I load with all kinds of gear for weeks long expeditions and throw it down whatever hill comes along with wild abandon. One set of mechanicals is on my tandem which I load me and my wife on and throw it down hills with wild abandon…much to her horror. |
I've never used "Tektro MD-C510 Mechanical Disc" brakes, but just a better quality brake, whether hydraulic, mechanical or cable pull hydro (like Juin Tech), would be better.
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Hi. I suspect you’ve already answered your own question re ‘brakes/tyres’, as you lead with ‘understanding the importance of stopping’ :-)
No idea of the performance difference between the systems you mention, other than YouTube videos which favour cable actuated disc brakes (with or without hydraulic pistons). GCN have done brake system comparisons between rim and disc brakes - you might get something from them? I’d leave well enough alone, ride the current set up some more, and do your own tests to find out your braking distances in different conditions. This will give you an idea of whether you consider the present system is ‘safe’. You mentioned ‘don’t buy upgrades, ride up grades’, so let me give you ‘ride it ‘till you know how it rides’ :-) Good luck! |
Originally Posted by Polaris OBark
(Post 22538315)
Hydraulic brakes >> tubeless.
Hydraulic brakes will fundamentally improve your ride, your confidence, and lower your life insurance premium by thousands of dollars per year. If you already have tubeless-compatible rims, it is an easy and inexpensive "upgrade" anyway, but unless you are pinch-flatting all the time, it isn't going to be as life-changing an experience as getting hydraulic brakes (assuming they are Shimano and not SRAM). Wow! |
Both tubeless and hydro discs have their place. From what you've described, the biggest difference in putting them on your bike is you'll be able to say you put them on your bike.
I'm somewhat close to your weight and most of my miles, in much hillier areas, are done using cantilever brakes. Good quality brakes, well adjusted, with Koolstop pads. The bike seriously STOPS. You say you're new to cycling. Take a deep breath, buy some really good tires, and ride the bike (and learn how to maintain it). |
Save your money and buy a better bike
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Originally Posted by downhillmaster
(Post 22538604)
Did I miss the sarcasm?
Wow! |
The correct answer is "get both." Good disc brakes and tubeless tires are, to me, mandatory upgrades, and I'll never buy a new bike that doesn't have them. Upgrading to both doesn't have to be an expensive endeavor, but if you're on a budget, get the brakes first. Hybrid cable/hydro brakes feel a little different than full hydros, but the performance is pretty much identical. The Juin Tech units are available under other brand names, btw.
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Originally Posted by Rolla
(Post 22538826)
The correct answer is "get both." Good disc brakes and tubeless tires are, to me, mandatory upgrades, and I'll never buy a new bike that doesn't have them. Upgrading to both doesn't have to be an expensive endeavor, but if you're on a budget, get the brakes first. Hybrid cable/hydro brakes feel a little different than full hydros, but the performance is pretty much identical. The Juin Tech units are available under other brand names, btw.
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Originally Posted by Cnguyen323
(Post 22538458)
I am running about 40-45 PSI so I think I may attempt the ghetto tubeless..
Because I weight the same as you and my road bike needs to be at 100psi (700x28) and the mountain bike at 40psi (29x2.4"), so I'm not sure if you're running at a suitable pressure. Also, unless you're having difficultly stopping quickly enough, or having problems with flats or tire pressure being too high, I'd just leave them alone and but the money into your next bike instead. I've spent a small fortune upgrading almost all of my bikes and then lost it all when I've inevitably just got a better bike. |
Originally Posted by Cnguyen323
(Post 22538314)
tJust got this one a few weeks ago though. Decent platform for upgrades.
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I'm spending the big bucks (well sorta) to downgrade from non-tubeless to totally tubular. (Well, the city bikes will stay tubed with Paselas for the time being,) The rest are starting the transition back to the sewups I rode exclusively for 15 years and 25 years total.
Several reasons. I've had a flatted clincher roll off the rim and jam in the seatstays. Ugly. painful crash. I can no longer enjoy downhills (Portland and Oregon have some great ones) going twice the speed I crashed at. Can't block the "what if"s. Also love how much abuse a tubular wheel can take (hitting a bottomless pothole for example) and roll along just fine like nothing happened, even with deep dents in the rim. Rare pinch flats. Tire stays on even with 1" or deeper rim damage. Wheel bumps home just fine. (Little rough on the brakes. Oh well.) Confidence inspiring. The ride! All that air between the road and the rim. None of it hiding in some valley doing nothing. Secure cornering. Everything else being equal, tubulars get better grip. (Learned that the hard way when when I transitioned to clinchers in the '80s and tried to take a downhill wet corner I'd done dozens of times on tubulars.) Fewer flats than clinchers. I don't know why. But it seems to be. Just hoping that luck resumes. And when it happens. so much easier to deal with! Rip the old tire off. Stick on a new one. Ride. Whatever caused that flat is between the road you are now leaving and the flatted tire under your seat. It cannot cause the next flat. 5 minute tire changes - on good days, on bad days, in the snow, inebriated, in the dark. Very little you can do wrong. (But just roll easy the next few miles, 'till you get home if you use a hard glue.) |
Originally Posted by fishboat
(Post 22538611)
Both tubeless and hydro discs have their place. From what you've described, the biggest difference in putting them on your bike is you'll be able to say you put them on your bike.
I'm somewhat close to your weight and most of my miles, in much hillier areas, are done using cantilever brakes. Good quality brakes, well adjusted, with Koolstop pads. The bike seriously STOPS. You say you're new to cycling. Take a deep breath, buy some really good tires, and ride the bike (and learn how to maintain it).
Originally Posted by Rolla
(Post 22538826)
The correct answer is "get both." Good disc brakes and tubeless tires are, to me, mandatory upgrades, and I'll never buy a new bike that doesn't have them. Upgrading to both doesn't have to be an expensive endeavor, but if you're on a budget, get the brakes first. Hybrid cable/hydro brakes feel a little different than full hydros, but the performance is pretty much identical. The Juin Tech units are available under other brand names, btw.
Originally Posted by Herzlos
(Post 22539559)
I spotted this and it stood out; what size tires are you running and what kind of bike?
Because I weight the same as you and my road bike needs to be at 100psi (700x28) and the mountain bike at 40psi (29x2.4"), so I'm not sure if you're running at a suitable pressure. Also, unless you're having difficultly stopping quickly enough, or having problems with flats or tire pressure being too high, I'd just leave them alone and but the money into your next bike instead. I've spent a small fortune upgrading almost all of my bikes and then lost it all when I've inevitably just got a better bike. |
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