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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Gdando 01-24-14 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by Kactus (Post 16437469)
You should be able to buy cheaper tires, like Vittoria Rallies for way less than $250/pair.

As a newbie who is learning I have read most posts that the general consensus is that higher quality tubulars like Strada Bianchi or Paris-Roubaix will last longer while providing nicer ride. If the Stans sealant can actually extend the lifespan then I may be able to justify $117 per tire.

gaucho777 01-24-14 02:24 PM

I've had experience on a range of tubulars from the 3/$50 Yellow Jersey and Ralleys, up to Challenge P-R and Dugast tubulars. The expensive tubulars are indeed much nicer. You get what you pay for, but the ride on cheaper tubulars is certainly acceptable--if you get a good one. For me, though, the rub is the consistency of the cheaper ones. I've had Ralley and YJ tires that are straight and last for well over a thousand miles. But I've also had ones that are lumpy from the start, form bulges through the casing, or prone to flats after less than a few hundred miles. The last time I purchased a 3/$50 YJ set: one was so lumpy I was instantly relegated to spare duty, another formed a bulge in the casing under the rubber after less than 200 miles (this, of course, inevitably leads to a premature puncture). IMHO, unless you are a 1%-er, you should be prepared to repair an high-end tubular if you get a flat before the tread has worn out. Some flats are bound to happen no matter what tires you run, but there's less of a return on repairing a YJ tire.

RobbieTunes 01-24-14 06:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 16437336)
Tubular glue still works for me, and I've gotten better at applying it. The tape seems pretty thick. Maybe that's why the Tufo's I tried didn't seem to stay put very well. (I think RobbieTunes has them now.) Tape is also, as I understand it, single use, and much more expensive per application than glue, so it does add to your total cost.

I've never had a problem with the Tufo tape. Skip is right, the tape is $12-$14 per tire, and for the most part, single use. (I've gotten away with re-mounting, but the tire has to come off very clean, and I helped with a little glue in spots.) I also made a newbie mistake by mounting the clinching tubulars onto tubular rims, with the tape. I rode 400 miles on them before I realized my error, and always had the impression something was "moving" down below. A local triathlon specialty shop near here doesn't sell Tufo tires, but they change hundreds of tubular tires a year and use the tape 90% of the time. Their customers pay for speed, and generally don't touch their bikes except to ride, so $25/wheel to mount a tubular isn't an issue for them.

I don't think Tufo tape has to be used for Tufo tires, as I'm having a heck of a time right now getting two orange Continental Sprinters off of some rims, applied with tape.

I've never used the cheap tubulars, but pick up one here and there with wheels/trades, etc, and hold them for spares. I've never used the expensive tubulars, but definitely believe that most of the $100 tubulars are likely worth the money. I use Tufo tires, both the clinching tubulars and the regular tubulars, and for the money, I've not had better. When they came from the Czech Republic, they were expensive, but there are now dealers in the US selling them for about half what they used to go for. My last purchase was 3 S33 Pro's and 3 rolls of tape for $203, delivered. I've paid as low as $103, delivered, for two of the clinching C S33 Pro's, and I'll put them up vs. about any $50 clincher/tube combo out there. I wish they were a little wider, and their cyclocross tires are very popular around here.

As you may surmise from the photo, I don't relegate tubulars to C&V bikes, and I don't discriminate when buying wheels between tubular or clincher. A good wheel is a good wheel, and I don't let the tire requirement make much of a difference.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=367540

gaucho777 03-04-14 10:35 PM

If you roll a tubular (which often lodges between the rim and the chain stay if it's the rear) and manage to stay upright, this is what can happen:

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc7128cf8.jpg

delicious 03-05-14 12:03 AM

Yipes. Did you roll one?

gaucho777 03-05-14 12:38 AM

Not recently, but yes. I've had these rims since the mid-80s. Hot summer day in the hills. Guess I was riding the brakes too hard. I rolled the rear tire and flattened out the edge of the rim sliding across the pavement with the rear locked up.

I was debating bringing these rims out of retirement if they check out as round. Though they are tad on the heavy side at ~850g for the pair (with glue residue and some tape). It was so long ago I just can't recall how bad they were when I retired them. I don't lik the idea of spending time/$ building wheels that will never stay true. I don't know, what do you think, everything else notwithstanding, would you build rims with this sort of damage? The rims are kind of cool and I like the breaking surface, esp. on ano'd rims is a plus. I bought these as a teenager in France, so they also have some nostalgic attachment. How bad could sudden wheel failure be? Don't answer that.

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps8714ed7c.jpg

RobbieTunes 03-06-14 06:33 PM

I'm not sure I'd build them. You may be asking the glue to do something the rim is supposed to do.

I've not rolled a tubular off. In fact, I bought a bike with tubulars, went on a 40-mile group ride, and returned home. I decided I would get new tires, and went to take the old ones off, and they weren't glued on, just pulled right off.

I did a crit once in about 95-degree weather, and the leader rolled off both tubulars at about the same time. He was using toe clips with 2 straps per foot. If it hadn't been for the hay bales, he's have lost a lot more skin.

Six jours 03-06-14 09:01 PM

I would not use those. They probably will hold up, but "probably" is not the word I'm looking for when it comes to bicycle wheels.

OTOH, I once rolled a tire and slid something like thirty feet on one edge of the rim. It actually wore the edge away to nothing - you could see inside the rim through the hole. Being a broke and idiotic junior, I glued up a new tire and rode the wheel the rest of the season without problem.

So, as a middle-aged fat guy with plenty of money and a serious aversion to any more scars, I wouldn't build up your rims. As a broke and idiotic junior, I would have built them up without a second thought and almost certainly been fine.

HTH! :P

JohnDThompson 03-06-14 10:02 PM


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 16438463)
I don't think Tufo tape has to be used for Tufo tires, as I'm having a heck of a time right now getting two orange Continental Sprinters off of some rims, applied with tape.

The Tufo tape does work with non-Tufo tires, but I recommend using the "Extreme" version of the Tufo tape in that case. It's much easier to deal with than the standard Tufo tape on a non-Tufo tire. There must be something different about the Tufo base tape that is designed to work with the Tufo mounting tapes.

CV-6 03-06-14 10:22 PM

I am surprised no one has mentioned Miyata tape. I am using it on one set of wheels so far with good results. One roll is about $50 but you get 10 wheels out of the longer roll.

I do not recommend using tape with YJ tubulars. I had basetape separating from the casing after a few rides..

RobbieTunes 03-06-14 10:28 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 16556086)
The Tufo tape does work with non-Tufo tires, but I recommend using the "Extreme" version of the Tufo tape in that case. It's much easier to deal with than the standard Tufo tape on a non-Tufo tire. There must be something different about the Tufo base tape that is designed to work with the Tufo mounting tapes.

Excellent point that I forgot to mention. The Tufo Extreme tape is a heck of a lot better than the other tape, and I'm using it on a set of full carbon wheels with no issues.


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 16556131)
I am surprised no one has mentioned Miyata tape. I am using it on one set of wheels so far with good results. One roll is about $50 but you get 10 wheels out of the longer roll.

Super tip, and I'm going to try it. 10 wheels for $50 is a lot better than 4.

ultraman6970 03-06-14 11:16 PM

Ultra did not know the miyata tape, interesting.

Ex Pres 02-24-15 11:44 AM

PSA - if you like Rallys, Ribble has them for $11.48 - $17.33. that's cheap.

OldsCOOL 06-30-15 07:07 PM

I cant believe I read the entire thread. This weekend I'm being whisked into the classic world of sewups. Thanx for a good headstart, guys.

Lenton58 07-01-15 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 16549237)
If you roll a tubular (which often lodges between the rim and the chain stay if it's the rear) and manage to stay upright, this is what can happen:

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/a...psc7128cf8.jpg

As I said just above, I do not claim to be an expert. But, that being said, I would still exclaim, "YIKES! That glue looks like it has hardened in the rim and is no longer capable of "waking up" as the tire and rim heat up. The residue looks like merely crystallized crud. If that is the case, it is not capable of forming a bond to any tire, even though it might be difficult to move off the rim itself.

I have removed glue in this condition using a wire brush attachment on a variable speed power drill. It came of as crystallized dust. Typical solvents were not very effective. IMHO, glue in this state of aging is dangerous.

I am assumming that this is what was there when the tubular rolled.

repechage 07-01-15 08:29 AM

Only time I rolled a tire was when a yahoo in a Ford Fairmont decided to gutterball it right beside me on Pacific Coast Highway, there was traffic and he obviously wanted to get ahead. I turned right and my rear axle caught his rear bumper. I then bounced crossed up rear to the other side, landed and rolled the tire. Valve broke right off, kicked the bike back straight underneath me and rolled it out to a stop.
Friends behind me a ways thought for sure I was going down, I am allergic to falling. Dressed the rim nicks when I got home and still have that wheel.

If I was on clinchers, I would have gone down.

gaucho777 07-02-15 01:18 AM


Originally Posted by Lenton58 (Post 17941766)
As I said just above, I do not claim to be an expert. But, that being said, I would still exclaim, "YIKES! That glue looks like it has hardened in the rim and is no longer capable of "waking up" as the tire and rim heat up. The residue looks like merely crystallized crud. If that is the case, it is not capable of forming a bond to any tire, even though it might be difficult to move off the rim itself.

I have removed glue in this condition using a wire brush attachment on a variable speed power drill. It came of as crystallized dust. Typical solvents were not very effective. IMHO, glue in this state of aging is dangerous.

I am assumming that this is what was there when the tubular rolled.

You are indeed correct about the glue being hardened. However, this is a fairly recent picture, though I haven't ridden the rims since i rolled the tire long ago. Your looking at perhaps 28-year-old Clement glue. Current state of the glue doesn't reflect condition when the tire roll occurred. I'm confident the glue wasn't to blame so much as riding the brakes hard on a hot summer day on a fast technical descent (coming down Decker Canyon, for those familiar with the area) and over-heating the wheels. And why was I even using race wheels on a training day I wonder...

OldsCOOL 07-25-15 10:05 AM

I want to encourage anyone avoiding riding tubulars solely because of the fuss of installing/mounting and the mess, lumps, etc etc etc.

My Colnago Super is now wearing Servizio Corse tires using Panaracer glue. I prestretched the tires on their rims for 24hrs at 125psi and just this morning glued them on using the supplied brush in the can. No mess, no lumps, tread ran straight from the get-go. I will note that I went the cheap tubie route for a starters. If this '77 was an open road bike (not with this 15-21 5sp corncob) there would be another consideration. However, the mounting process has been way easier than I expected.

DiabloScott 10-02-15 11:04 AM

Never gotten instructions with my glue before - this must be the IKEA method.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/...2319a609e3.jpg.

I never did get that last step mastered.

OldsCOOL 10-02-15 11:37 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18212070)
Never gotten instructions with my glue before - this must be the IKEA method.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/...2319a609e3.jpg.

I never did get that last step mastered.

Thanx, I'll hardcopy and tape it to my handlebars.

DiabloScott 10-02-15 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by OldsCOOL (Post 18212178)
Thanx, I'll hardcopy and tape it to my handlebars.

Better idea: make a copy and wrap your spare in it.

Kactus 10-02-15 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18212070)
Never gotten instructions with my glue before - this must be the IKEA method.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/...2319a609e3.jpg.

I never did get that last step mastered.

Took almost as long to read/interpret that as it does to mount a tubular tire.;)

gaucho777 10-02-15 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18212070)
Never gotten instructions with my glue before - this must be the IKEA method.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/...2319a609e3.jpg.

I never did get that last step mastered.

Step X: Wait an hour after applying glue to rim before mounting tire? That's too long in my experience. And only 1 coat of glue (step IX)? I think 2 coats is the more common procedure. I apply one coat to rim(s), then one coat to tire base strip. Then, after I've finished with the coat on the tire, I add a second thin layer of glue to rim, wait about 20 to 30 minutes, at most, and then mount the tire. I find that if you wait too long after applying the 2nd layer of glue to the rim, the glue becomes too tacky and it's more difficult to reposition the tire if it's not set up straight initially.

Is that last step: Don't touch your handlebars if your hands are covered in glue? ;)

crank_addict 10-02-15 01:36 PM

^^That's too easy. Where's the hardcore vintage? Mix flakes of shellac into denatured alcohol. Keep thinning to a slurry and apply to the rim. Wait a few days 'between' additional coats... and then some. LOL

Peugeotlover 10-02-15 02:51 PM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 18212362)
I think 2 coats is the more common procedure. I apply one coat to rim(s), then one coat to tire base strip. Then, after I've finished with the coat on the tire, I add a second thin layer of glue to rim, wait about 20 to 30 minutes, at most, and then mount the tire. I find that if you wait too long after applying the 2nd layer of glue to the rim, the glue becomes too tacky and it's more difficult to reposition the tire if it's not set up straight initially.


Gaucho, with all due respect, this is a lot more work & glue than is necessary.

Simply dab Half of a 1.1 FL. OZ. tube of Rim Cement on the rim- between the holes- wait 10 minutes, turning the wheel occasionally so the cement does not drip off.

Then, starting the deflated (but pre-stretched) tubular at the valve hole, pull on the tire, working away from the valve equally on both sides.
Then fill the tire while adjusting it to the wheel center.

One 1.1 oz tube is enough to glue two tires on two rims.

OldsCOOL 10-02-15 03:01 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 18212247)
Better idea: make a copy and wrap your spare in it.

:lol:

DiabloScott 10-02-15 03:03 PM

The first time I glued on a set of tires, I followed the "extreme 6-corner criterium racer in July" method. Then when I later had to remove one of those tires I realized I could safely cut back to the "good enough" method.

gaucho777 10-02-15 03:09 PM

@Peugeotlover, so you aren't putting any glue on the basetape of a new tire? Even though I'm putting on a second coat, I don't feel I'm putting on too much glue. Its not as if it's flowing out the sides when I pump up the tire. By my rough estimation, I'd guess I use roughly 3/4 of the tube per wheel: approximately 25% of a tube on the basetape for a new tire, ~30% of a tube for the first coat on the rim, and ~20% on the second coat. Minus the application of glue on the tire (you do pre-glue the basetape on your spares though, I assume?) we're both putting on about 1/2 a tube on the rim itself.

Did I mention that I also score the basetape with the edge of file as was Faliero Masi's insistence?

Chombi 10-02-15 04:22 PM

Two thin coats of glue on the rim and base tape spread with my bare finger, with a 10 minute waiting period between coats is what works best for me....
And Continental glue in the small yellow tubes all the time!
Only thing I still sometimes still have problems with are some tires are hard to stretch over the rims (even with long term dry install pre-stetching) during installation (Veloflex Criteriums, especially). I think it has something to do with how thick the rubber carcass is under the base tape. Some seem to be way thicker and stiffer than others.

Peugeotlover 10-02-15 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 18212736)
@Peugeotlover, so you aren't putting any glue on the basetape of a new tire? Even though I'm putting on a second coat, I don't feel I'm putting on too much glue. Its not as if it's flowing out the sides when I pump up the tire. By my rough estimation, I'd guess I use roughly 3/4 of the tube per wheel: approximately 25% of a tube on the basetape for a new tire, ~30% of a tube for the first coat on the rim, and ~20% on the second coat. Minus the application of glue of the tire (you do pre-glue the basetape on your spares though, I assume?) we're both putting on about 1/2 a tube on the rim itself.

Did I mention that I also score the basetape with the edge of file as was Faliero Masi's insistence?


Have yet to put glue on base tape of a tire.

If 3/4 tube and scoring the tape is what you are comfortable with, you should stick with your method.

That is a good idea to put some glue on the base tape of a spare.
Might be messy to fold. So, far I haven't done this, but not a bad idea.

The glue is a lot stronger than you realize, perhaps.
I will continue to use my '1/2 tube on one rim' method which works.
I read about this quantity on a tube of glue that read: "1 tube does 2 rims".

There is no special way.


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