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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

PalmettoUpstate 02-23-15 11:08 PM

Turning in now; I'll post a pic of my bride's '74 Sports tomorrow to show what I mean. Ciao!

michaelz28 02-23-15 11:09 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17580212)
White vinyl top?

white vinyl top and stripes .. it is an original california car with ac and a 4 speed . rare car .. you dont want black in the hot califorina sun white tops and light interiors were the order http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435894

gster 02-24-15 10:02 AM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17580225)
white vinyl top and stripes .. it is an original california car with ac and a 4 speed . rare car .. you dont want black in the hot califorina sun white tops and light interiors were the order http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435894

If you like vintage bicycles, there's a good chance you like vintage cars as well.

PalmettoUpstate 02-24-15 10:59 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17580225)
white vinyl top and stripes .. it is an original california car with ac and a 4 speed . rare car .. you dont want black in the hot califorina sun white tops and light interiors were the order

Yeah I've messed around the GM Muscle cars since they hit the streets and I knew that white top would have to be very rare in a Z28. Not so much in the luxury variant; can't recall what that was but hey, if we talk about this much more it would have to go to another forum methinks. Here's a pic of the white SA reflector from '74 on my wife's "Bluebird" Raleigh Sports - which you can probably tell is in storage until the 70 degree days return. Also, second pic is a killer wide jaw stubby adjustable wrench from Channellock. Special ordered it from the Northern Tool online catalog when I found out about it whilst evaluating choices of 6" adjustable wrenches for onboard bicycle tool kits. While it is, IMO, to heavy for that purpose I can see it finding a home in my regular tool boxes, bags, buckets etc. Model 6WCB - opens to better than 1.5 inches and/or 34 mm - wow!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435954 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435955

PalmettoUpstate 02-24-15 11:19 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gster (Post 17580992)
If you like vintage bicycles, there's a good chance you like vintage cars as well.

Yep. And maybe, like me, vintage lawn chairs. I re-web them when the sun has destroyed the webbing. Can't stand to see the aluminum frames junked when these are such perfect example of functional industrial design...

To the topic at hand, left to right:

"small" round white rubber housing, these could be SA, Lucas, or Fairylite as best I can tell. On a project bike I haven't gotten to yet... [no chain guard, doinker kickstand etc.]
"small" round black rubber housing, this is a repop from Asia somewhere. Decent quality but not correct for my black '74 LTD-3 but I like it so...
"large" round white rubber housing, OEM to the '74 Raleigh Sports [same bike as mentioned above]. I guess the Feds were getting involved hence the change...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435958 ...and now, with michaelz28's bike's reflector, I'll have to add another variant to my pics and knowledge base. There are some people on this thread with encyclopedic knowledge of these bikes and maybe they can shed some light on the black vs. white variants of the reflectors from this time frame.

michaelz28 02-24-15 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17581256)
Yep. And maybe, like me, vintage lawn chairs. I re-web them when the sun has destroyed the webbing. Can't stand to see the aluminum frames junked when these are such perfect example of functional industrial design...

To the topic at hand, left to right:

"small" round white rubber housing, these could be SA, Lucas, or Fairylite as best I can tell. On a project bike I haven't gotten to yet... [no chain guard, doinker kickstand etc.]
"small" round black rubber housing, this is a repop from Asia somewhere. Decent quality but not correct for my black '74 LTD-3 but I like it so...
"large" round white rubber housing, OEM to the '74 Raleigh Sports [same bike as mentioned above]. I guess the Feds were getting involved hence the change...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435958 ...and now, with michaelz28's bike's reflector, I'll have to add another variant to my pics and knowledge base. There are some people on this thread with encyclopedic knowledge of these bikes and maybe they can shed some light on the black vs. white variants of the reflectors from this time frame.

i would assume that my black one is original . It's a sturmey archer housing and a Lucas lense .

Velocivixen 02-25-15 01:49 AM

Who here has 650A Col de la Vie tires on their three speed. I finally got 2. Postage said "2-Day Priority, but it's been 12 days! Anyway I was hoping they'd be a tiny bit wider, as stated on Harris Cyclery site (they say 38.5 mm). Mine, mounted to CR18 rims are just a tad over 32 mm. No wider than the cheap Kendas and not more comfy of a ride. Plus mounting them and getting them seated so the tan part looks the same thickness all the way around sucks.

When I sit in front of the bike and watch the front wheel spin the tire looks wavy side to side, and the wheel is true. The tire appears to be seated. That little indicator line that is supposed to run parallel to the rim is parallel all the way around but the tan part seems to bulge near the stem. Ideas? Is this common?

teaboy 02-25-15 06:30 AM

I have just had the same thing you need to send them back .I cut my losses and brought chepo Raliegh branded maid in China tyres and they are much better!

Salubrious 02-25-15 11:22 AM

@ Velocivixen- I've got a set of Continental City Rides on my Humber Sports and love them! I've been riding Kendas, which worked OK (smooth ride, handled fine) but when I installed the City Rides I realized the Kendas were also kinda slow. Of course the City Rides run higher pressure, although I routinely ran the Kendas about 10 pounds over simply because I was also using CR18s which have a bead ridge- I don't think I could get away with that on the stock rims :eek:

The City Rides look a bit- fat. The carcass looks more roundish than the Kendas do.

Sounds like that Col de la Vie tire is defective.

noglider 02-25-15 01:10 PM

Sounds like you got defective tires, @Velocivixen. Darn.

Velocivixen 02-25-15 01:51 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17584531)
Sounds like you got defective tires, @Velocivixen. Darn.

How do you mean "defective"? Specifically? I finally got the indicator "line" evenly spaced around the rim. I'm wondering if the tan wall is just not even all the way around? The front tracks much better since I've since adjusted some more. Rear is a little better.

So, I've already mounted and ridden these tires around, so I'm presuming no returning them. What would be the problem riding them? I don't think the bead is going to come off the rim.

noglider 02-25-15 01:53 PM

Oh, so the defect is merely ęsthetic? Then I guess it's not so bad. If the tire rides OK, I wouldn't mind.

Velocivixen 02-25-15 01:55 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17584640)
Oh, so the defect is merely ęsthetic? Then I guess it's not so bad. If the tire rides OK, I wouldn't mind.

Well, not being a bike professional, hard to say. On the rear tire when I spin it and stand behind the bike it looks like the tire goes slightly side to side. That is weird because that line on the tire is evenly spaced around the rim. The wheel is absolutely true, so it's not that.

You have any ideas? I appreciate your expertise. Thanks.

noglider 02-25-15 01:57 PM

I like to make wheels very true, but the truth (ha) is that tires are never nearly as true as wheels. And if we can't feel the lumps, they don't matter. Tires are normally lumpy, but to varying degrees. You could post a video of your spinning wheel and ask if it is excessively lumpy.

Velocivixen 02-25-15 02:01 PM

I thought if I rode it a bit things would "settle" in a little. At what point would it be dangerous? Like if the bead wouldn't seat or ??? I found it very challenging to get that indicator line to be close to the rim right by the valve stem (4" total near valve) and directly opposite the valve. Weird. It's seated though, and improved, but I had to deflate tire, massage tire, reinflate, etc. Pain. I definitely wouldn't fix a flat on the side of the road with these tires. The lowly Kendas went on/off with ease.

Salubrious 02-25-15 02:33 PM

Its only dangerous if the tire is bulging somewhere.

teaboy 02-25-15 02:33 PM

If you deflate the the tyre and then lubircate the bead [I always use mrs teaboys handcream] re inlate the tyre you then will know the tyre will be perfectly seated You will then know if you have a mishapen tyre I dont think there is a saftey thing here ,i just changed my tyres because out on the road instead of looking up at road ahead i was staring at the front wheel!

noglider 02-25-15 03:16 PM

I suspect the tire will get used to being in the position you massaged it into. There's a good chance it will want to go back into that position next time you install it, if there ever is a next time.

markk900 02-25-15 05:27 PM

@Velocivixen: surprised you find the Panaracers narrow....on Raleigh rims, they are just a hair short of being too wide, and are much wider than the "normal" 26 x 1 3/8 tires that came off. The Kendas I have used tended to the narrow side (though I don't have any at hand to do a side by side comparison). Even though I have my CR18s I have not laced them up and the Panaracers went on the Raleigh rims with nary a whimper. Given the CR18s are narrower I would have expected the tires to appear even wider!

For your situation, it appears they may be cosmetically challenged - no danger per se and whether or not you keep them depends solely on your level of OCD. Mine ( bought from Niagara) seem completely OK. I did have a set of IRCs on another bike that had the problem you mention - very obvious problems with the consistency of the gumwall. Didn't pose any danger - just pissed me off. They've been replaced (ironically with Paselas - they were 700C tires).

Narhay 02-25-15 09:11 PM

I like my Michelin world tour tires except for the reflective strip (aesthetically). But I guess they help at night.

PalmettoUpstate 02-25-15 09:37 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17583294)
When I sit in front of the bike and watch the front wheel spin the tire looks wavy side to side, and the wheel is true. The tire appears to be seated. That little indicator line that is supposed to run parallel to the rim is parallel all the way around but the tan part seems to bulge near the stem. Ideas? Is this common?

Absolutely no experience with those tires but they are touted as "la creme de la creme" on this thread.

Regarding what you're observing: "but the tan part seems to bulge near the stem."

I have had good results with Kendas - all Kendas - from the 55 psi rated to the 100 psi rated.

That being said; I got a killer, killer of a deal on a Schwinn Speedster because the guy had put new Kenda skinwalls on it and they had a lump - or thump - or whatever _ and he couldn't sort it out...

So I got the bike for the price of two tires.

And...

Got it home, put it on the stand, and saw pretty much what you're describing.

So, after considerable studying and head scratching, I inflated the tires to the specified max [55 psi] and lo and behold - the sidewall "popped" into the rim and all was squared up and I haven't looked back...

BTW, I might mention, that bike is a single speed coaster brake and I'm pretty sure that Schwinn made these bikes to be the absolute max in terms of all around efficiency.

I call the bike "James Dean" cuz it's "so clean" and it is a seriously fun ride that inexplicably traverses with aplomb routes where usually at least 3 speeds are needed.

Go figure!

Anyway, get a good rubber mallet, a $40 Harbor Freight air compressor, and some talcum powder and maybe some of those rim seating issues will just fade away...

PalmettoUpstate 02-25-15 09:40 PM

PS- Stupid me.

I forgot to mention that when I was flummoxed by all of the aforementioned I pulled the offending tire and tube off the rim and talc'ed them up. remounted them, and the rest was history.

Velocivixen 02-25-15 11:06 PM

Update: I think I know what's going on. I just deflated, rubbed the tire with Phil Wood Tenacious Oil to help the bead "slip" into place. I reinflated the tire and it helped in all areas except around the stem. I deflated tire completely, pried off one side of the tire around the rim near the stem area and saw the the RUBBER rim strip was askew. Rubber you ask????

When I first bought the bike it had single wall steel rims and my LBS said not to use cloth rim strips with single wall, so sold me rubber rim strips. When I built these new wheels and was buying all the supplies the wheelbuilder said I needed Neubaum's rim strips or at least cloth. She was out. I told her I had rubber and she hesitated, then said they'd do for now. I'm still using rubber rim strips. I had a h*ll of a time keeping them in the trough when installing tubes/tires as they kept moving around. I BET that rubber rim strip askew has kept the bead seat uneven in spots!!!

What do you think? I've got Neubaum's on my list to replace the rubber. I'm fairly sure that's what it is.

desconhecido 02-26-15 01:34 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17585954)
Update: I think I know what's going on. I just deflated, rubbed the tire with Phil Wood Tenacious Oil to help the bead "slip" into place. I reinflated the tire and it helped in all areas except around the stem. I deflated tire completely, pried off one side of the tire around the rim near the stem area and saw the the RUBBER rim strip was askew. Rubber you ask????

When I first bought the bike it had single wall steel rims and my LBS said not to use cloth rim strips with single wall, so sold me rubber rim strips. When I built these new wheels and was buying all the supplies the wheelbuilder said I needed Neubaum's rim strips or at least cloth. She was out. I told her I had rubber and she hesitated, then said they'd do for now. I'm still using rubber rim strips. I had a h*ll of a time keeping them in the trough when installing tubes/tires as they kept moving around. I BET that rubber rim strip askew has kept the bead seat uneven in spots!!!

What do you think? I've got Neubaum's on my list to replace the rubber. I'm fairly sure that's what it is.

Your experience trying to get those tires properly seated sounds a lot like mine when I installed them on the black 51 Sports step-through. I wrote something about it a while ago, but I can't remember in which of these threads -- they all run together some how. I attribute the problems to the tire being a snug 590 mm bead and the rim having a deep well (original Raleigh rims). With your CR18, I wouldn't think you'd have a problem getting a uniform seating on the bead surface, so maybe the rim tape is the issue. With mine, I could move the lumps to different places on the tire.

I did have some rim tape issues with the tire on the Raleigh rims. I used Velox cloth tape and it didn't stick very well to the stainless (I think it is, and that's amazing) Raleigh rim. It's also a tad wide for the "pocket" that the tape should ride in. I like cloth rim tape, but I've recently been using some narrower Schwalbe blue rim tape that I got in a 50 meter roll -- it's a bit more economical that way. It seems to fit the center of the rim better.

Anyway, the CR18 rims are alleged to be "tight" to get tires on (that's my experience) and a rim tape that's a bit too wide or, perhaps in your case, is misaligned, and you may have the source of your problem.

I think that your tires will get better with time -- that seems to be the case with the ones I bought. During shipping and storage, they've been deformed and the rubber has a plastic "memory" . They will adapt to their new shape and take on a new "set." You might consider over-inflating them for a while -- I don't think you're going to get one of those suckers to pop off a CR18 rim if you keep it under 75 psi, as opposed to the 45 recommended on the sidewall.

edited:
Do you know why cloth rim tape is not prescribed for single wall rims? I like cloth myself -- we've got some rims that were put into service about 30 years ago with Velox cloth tape and it's still serviceable. Rubber and plastic after a couple years, not so much.

Velocivixen 02-26-15 02:27 AM

@desconhecido - I don't know why the LBS said it was not recommended. I'll ask next time I'm there.


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