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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Salubrious 02-26-15 10:47 AM

Cotton isn't great if spoke nipples are just on the other side. They could still cause a flat. Rubber offers a little more protection.

With modern double-wall rims like the CR18s, the concern is more about the inner spoke hole wearing on the inner tube.

desconhecido 02-26-15 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17586084)
@desconhecido - I don't know why the LBS said it was not recommended. I'll ask next time I'm there.

Thanks, I'm curious.

desconhecido 02-26-15 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17586818)
Cotton isn't great if spoke nipples are just on the other side. They could still cause a flat. Rubber offers a little more protection.

With modern double-wall rims like the CR18s, the concern is more about the inner spoke hole wearing on the inner tube.

Opening up old tire/wheel combinations, I've encountered old cloth tape on single wall rims -- those strips held together with the little cinching buckles -- and they've seemed to do their jobs protecting the tubes from the spoke heads/nipple tops. One problem that appears, though, is that the cloth tape seems to hold water against the rim and if it's a steel rim, like many of the old ones were, there tends to be rust formed on the rim just under the tape. This is a detriment. As far as protecting from spoke damage in general with single wall rims, their are boatloads of them around with Velox rim tape on them and my guess is that it works well.

So, my guess is that the rubber strips don't facilitate rust points as easily as cloth tape and it's chearper and quicker to apply.

As I mentioned previously, I've been using a 50 meter roll of 15mm Schwalbe tape that I ordered through Amazon to my door for about $25. That should be enough for about 25 rims. I like the tape -- it stays where you put it and it appears plenty strong to keep the tube from bulging into the wall cavity. I had been using 17mm to 19 mm Velox but reading what people say about wider rim tape interfering with tire seating of tires, I've opted to try the narrower and be more meticulous about application.

Salubrious 02-26-15 12:44 PM

I think if you look at those installations where cotton is used, you will find that the spoke nipples have been filed to eliminate burrs that could stick through the cotton.

adventurepdx 02-26-15 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17585223)
@Velocivixen: surprised you find the Panaracers narrow....on Raleigh rims, they are just a hair short of being too wide, and are much wider than the "normal" 26 x 1 3/8 tires that came off.

Yeah, I found the Col de la Vies to be the widest of the tires in 590 size: billed as 26" x 1 1/2" or 40-590, compared to 35 or 37 mm width of the others. On my Raleigh Wayfarer I found that clearances were tight with this tire (esp. with using fenders) and had to play around with the fenders a bit, esp near the fork crown.


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17585806)
Absolutely no experience with those tires but they are touted as "la creme de la creme" on this thread.

They are, but, at the risk of sounding...heretical...(!) I will say that the Panaracer Col de la Vies are not "all that". When I had them on the Raleigh Wayfarer, I did appreciate the aesthetics and liked the ride, but hated the (lack of) flat protection. I came to realize that with my fat ass and the type of riding I typically do with it, that being commuting with loads, this tire wasn't the best fit. I went back to Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, which are not as "nice riding", but flat protection is heaps better. Of course YMMV, so if you are lighter than me and just use your three speed for a spin 'round the park, the Col de la Vies may just be what you want/need.

noglider 02-26-15 04:21 PM

One trick that sometimes helps seating a tire is to inflate it to 100 psi or more. Chances are, it won't blow off, and it can send the bead outward and into the right spot.

PalmettoUpstate 02-26-15 07:32 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17587803)
One trick that sometimes helps seating a tire is to inflate it to 100 psi or more. Chances are, it won't blow off, and it can send the bead outward and into the right spot.

True enough. And I may have gotten that strategy from you originally Tom, thanx. I find this method seems to foolproof bead seating for me:

1. Lightly coat the tube with talc; Dollar Tree has it good and cheap.
2. Put only enough air into the tube to get the creases out of the rubber and install it into the tire and rim.
3. Inflate the tire to 15 lbs. and spin the tire on the bike while pounding it sharply with a rubber hammer as it spins. Do that enough to be sure that any "wrinkles" in the rubber tube will have smoothed out.
4. Add air up to the recommended max pressure and do the same thing - pounding with the rubber hammer - and look at the sidewalls to see if they're even throughout.
5. If you can still see lumps or depressions in the sidewall, over-inflate and hammer away and see what happens. There's a high degree of likelihood that the sidewall will "pop" into place.

Velocivixen 02-26-15 09:46 PM

I ended up getting Velox rim tape, installing, putting talcum powder into the tires themselves and on the tube. Inflate tube just enough to hold shape, place into tire. Put one side of tire onto rim. I actually did this without using tire lever, just my hands. Amazing. Then get the other side of the tire over the rim. I did this too with just my hands. Had to massage a little at the very last 6" or so. Mounted to bike. Went around and massaged tire so that the indicator ridge/line was exactly the same all the way around on both sides.

I've got the bike in the stand and both tires inflated to something like 70-80 psi. I have sticky notes on the bike reminding me to deflate to 45 psi before I ride.

When I bought the bike the rear wheel was further forward in the dropout (horizontal). For some reason, I guess I was afraid of the axle being so far forward in the dropout, I positioned it rearward and installed the new chain. I see there's a lot more room between tire & fender near the chain stay mount and very tight clearances between the rear of the tire/rear of fender. So, it looks that if I move the wheel forward so the tire is more equally situated within the fender I will need to get a half link. I'll have to see tomorrow. Right now, with the tire way overinflated the rear tire is rubbing on the rear part of the fender heavily. It seemed to be rubbing a tiny bit at 45 psi. I've got the fender adjusted to it's fullest extent, so may need to go forward a touch.

curbtender 02-26-15 10:45 PM

I keep rubbing alcohol in the tool chest for grips. It would probably work on tough tires too.

PalmettoUpstate 02-28-15 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17588570)
I ended up getting Velox rim tape, installing, putting talcum powder into the tires themselves and on the tube. Inflate tube just enough to hold shape, place into tire. Put one side of tire onto rim. I actually did this without using tire lever, just my hands. Amazing. Then get the other side of the tire over the rim. I did this too with just my hands. Had to massage a little at the very last 6" or so. Mounted to bike. Went around and massaged tire so that the indicator ridge/line was exactly the same all the way around on both sides.

Yep, pretty much the best method that I have found is exactly that which you've described. I now skip the talc inside the tire and that may not optimize the tube seating as much but it has seemed to work well for me. Regarding "just my hands", I have found that this definitely varies from tire brand to tire brand. Indeed, IMO it may even vary from lot to lot in the same brand/model but I'd defer to someone who has mounted more tires than I have on that supposition. Last set of tires that I mounted were kind a bear; black garden variety Kenda K-40's non-HP. I had to really work the levers on both of them. Before that, last set was a pair Continental City Rides and, as you experienced, they mounted very easily by hand - I almost felt too easily!


When I bought the bike the rear wheel was further forward in the dropout (horizontal). For some reason, I guess I was afraid of the axle being so far forward in the dropout, I positioned it rearward and installed the new chain. I see there's a lot more room between tire & fender near the chain stay mount and very tight clearances between the rear of the tire/rear of fender. So, it looks that if I move the wheel forward so the tire is more equally situated within the fender I will need to get a half link. I'll have to see tomorrow. Right now, with the tire way overinflated the rear tire is rubbing on the rear part of the fender heavily. It seemed to be rubbing a tiny bit at 45 psi. I've got the fender adjusted to it's fullest extent, so may need to go forward a touch.
The Conti City Rides I mentioned above are fat and, doing pretty much as you describe - and indeed needlessly shortening one new chain - I was never able to get the rear wheel to roll smoothly inside the fender and just was able to get the front to do so. The reason I went to all the trouble was that I was attempting to make her "Promenade" Raleigh looks as close to "stock" as possible and it had come originally with the dual white stripe Dunlop tires that somewhat mimicked the auto tires of that era [1974].

Anyway, FWIW, I have a pair of these back there to replace the Contis with and they're not so fat so I have my fingers crossed that they'll work: http://www.amazon.com/Kenda-Street-K...rds=kenda+k-40

Velocivixen 02-28-15 03:29 PM

@PalmettoUpstate - Yeah, I started with Kenda K40 tires. Personally I don't notice a lot of difference between the two. I ended up getting a half link. I didn't know that the KMC 1/8" half link intentionally have the pins longer than necessary. I called Universal Cycles who told me to bring it back. I ended up breaking the half link (don't ask). I called a nearby shop that specializes in mountain & BMX and they were like, "Yeah, KMC intentionally makes the pins longer. They're supposed to be that way". Only place in my town who sells half links. Went to KMC website and sure enough the half link pins ARE made longer. So....who knew?!

My tire is not centered, front to back, in the fender. ;)

dweenk 02-28-15 03:53 PM

I would love to reply but my garage is below freezing at this moment.

The snow that is melting is running in through the basement wall/floor junction.

My bike fund is being spent on black oil sunflower seed and suet for the birds.

I could use a philosopher/priest/poet/muse to get me through to early spring.

And to anyone in the Boston area - you must be totally done (as sick of) winter.

Salubrious 02-28-15 04:02 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17592500)
My tire is not centered, front to back, in the fender. ;)

Assuming that the chain is going to wear and stretch, I figure with a new chain the wheel will sit forward in the dropouts and it will get moved back as the chain wears.

Velocivixen 02-28-15 07:58 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17592556)
Assuming that the chain is going to wear and stretch, I figure with a new chain the wheel will sit forward in the dropouts and it will get moved back as the chain wears.

Sorry. I meant to say my tire is now centered.

SirMike1983 02-28-15 09:28 PM

CR18s are great rims, but a royal pain in the ass for mounting tires. I put them on a 1940ish Schwinn 3 speed project.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QUOwja9cjA...4.14%2B003.JPG

arex 03-01-15 12:42 AM

That's pretty sweet.

Velocivixen 03-01-15 01:49 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 17593189)
CR18s are great rims, but a royal pain in the ass for mounting tires. I put them on a 1940ish Schwinn 3 speed project.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QUOwja9cjA...4.14%2B003.JPG

Your bike is nice. Could you tell us some more about it and maybe some photos?

BigChief 03-01-15 07:47 AM

That's one of the "New World" models. Next to a Paramount, my favorite Schwinn. Been on my love to find list for many years.

nlerner 03-01-15 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17592540)
And to anyone in the Boston area - you must be totally done (as sick of) winter.

Yes, I am! Last week, I decided I was tired of commuting on my old Hard Rock with upright bars and studded tires, so I went back to the regular commuter--a Nashbar touring bike with drop bars, 8-speed bar ends. It made for a much more pleasurable commute. Still, to get things back to this thread, it'll be a while until I am willing to commute on my Raleigh Superbe, a project I finished up just before the snows hit.

Salubrious 03-01-15 10:49 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 17593189)
CR18s are great rims, but a royal pain in the ass for mounting tires. I put them on a 1940ish Schwinn 3 speed project.

Nice!

I just picked up a Superior (3-speed, with cottered crank) that is about that same age but was lacking vision- now I have a better idea of what I should do...

arex 03-01-15 12:19 PM

I'm slowly piecing my Sports back together as pain levels allow. I'm about to start running cables, but I'm feeling apprehensive as I've never cut and assembled cable housing before.

SirMike1983 03-01-15 01:17 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17593509)
Your bike is nice. Could you tell us some more about it and maybe some photos?

Thank you for the compliments. This particular New World came as a bike "core" and I built up around the core using parts I had in my bins. I have a 1947 New World as well, and I love these bikes. When I saw this core available, I could not pass it up. The green is a nice color.

The bars are 1940s-era lightweight touring bars. The stem is a "razorback" Schwinn actually from a 1940s Schwinn Cycletruck, but was cut down by someone many years ago. I had to re-shape the end to work in the New World.

I built up the wheels- a 1954 Sturmey Archer 36 hole alloy AW in the back and a 1940s Schwinn script in the front. Spokes are DT Swiss straight gauge and the rims are polished Sun CR-18. Brake calipers and handles are original 1940s, but the cables and housings are new. I located an unused Sturmey quadrant shifter in my parts bin. Pedals are "AS" stamped Schwinn. Coke bottle grips are reproductions. Rear reflector is made of glass and is a "Schwinn Stimsonite" original.

I have the original locking fork Yale key, but use a spare I had made when I ride it so I don't lose the original. I had to repair the lock mechanism, but it works fine now.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IwAnRe-oJq...4.14%2B002.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1Pvn-VBvwz...4.14%2B011.JPG

Sun CR-18 polished:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xQks-n8obf...4.14%2B019.JPG

More photos of that particular bicycle are available here:

The Bike Shed: 1940 Schwinn New World

Alloy AW from 1954:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zb29SlBCim...4.14%2B018.JPG

A guide to the New World models is here:

The Bike Shed: Guide to the Schwinn New World

gster 03-01-15 04:33 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 17594540)
Thank you for the compliments. This particular New World came as a bike "core" and I built up around the core using parts I had in my bins. I have a 1947 New World as well, and I love these bikes. When I saw this core available, I could not pass it up. The green is a nice color.

The bars are 1940s-era lightweight touring bars. The stem is a "razorback" Schwinn actually from a 1940s Schwinn Cycletruck, but was cut down by someone many years ago. I had to re-shape the end to work in the New World.

I built up the wheels- a 1954 Sturmey Archer 36 hole alloy AW in the back and a 1940s Schwinn script in the front. Spokes are DT Swiss straight gauge and the rims are polished Sun CR-18. Brake calipers and handles are original 1940s, but the cables and housings are new. I located an unused Sturmey quadrant shifter in my parts bin. Pedals are "AS" stamped Schwinn. Coke bottle grips are reproductions. Rear reflector is made of glass and is a "Schwinn Stimsonite" original.

I have the original locking fork Yale key, but use a spare I had made when I ride it so I don't lose the original. I had to repair the lock mechanism, but it works fine now.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IwAnRe-oJq...4.14%2B002.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1Pvn-VBvwz...4.14%2B011.JPG

Sun CR-18 polished:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xQks-n8obf...4.14%2B019.JPG

More photos of that particular bicycle are available here:

The Bike Shed: 1940 Schwinn New World

Alloy AW from 1954:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zb29SlBCim...4.14%2B018.JPG

A guide to the New World models is here:

The Bike Shed: Guide to the Schwinn New World

Checked out your website. Lots of good info there. Thanks

PalmettoUpstate 03-01-15 06:27 PM

Anyone know where a [late 70's] Raleigh "Roadster" fits in the Nottingham firmament: https://newjersey.craigslist.org/bid/4909794169.html

Had they dropped the "Sports" model for that model?

And here's eye candy writ large: Vintage Royce Union Men's 3 Speed Bicycle 1962 Like New

tbo 03-02-15 12:52 PM

Now that I fixed up my 3 speed so that I love it and I can ride it a lot...

Has anyone experienced knee pain when going from exclusively derailleur bikes for years to an SA AW 3 speed? On my derailleur bikes, I am much more a spinner than a masher. That's not so much an option on the AW.

It's currently 46 teeth in the front and 18 teeth in the back. Just ordered a 22t rear cog. Hopefully that will help. Again hopefully, I won't have to replace the chain. If I have to, that's OK, but I would just rather not because the cog swap is a 5 minute job. The wheels are very free spinning, pretty darn true for their age (35+ years), with no brake pad or fender rubbing. The hub is quiet as can be and well lubricated. It has new tires and tubes, inflated to 65 PSI.

I do most of my riding in 2nd gear (1:1), so changing the AW hub to a closer gear ratio hub (SW?) won't help that much I don't think. Except maybe for being able to use 1st gear under normal (not hill climbing) riding. Right now on the AW, 1st is too low for any sort of going-down-the-road riding. That will only be exacerbated with the 22t cog.

I am missing anything obvious other than the cog swap out?

I hope I can solve this problem because if I can't, this is something that would make me get rid of the bike:(.


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