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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

arex 06-02-16 04:41 PM

SA Sturmey Archer Shifter Pulley Antique Vintage Bicycle RARE Two Speed Lever | eBay

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zuQAAO...LN/s-l1600.jpg

clubman 06-02-16 04:48 PM

Yeah they always forget the N is normal, not neutral. Hence, it's a 3 speed.

Gasbag 06-03-16 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by Delboy Avenger (Post 18813770)
Anyone come across a WH Cartwright bike before?
The bike has Sturmey Archer 3 speed and is a ladies model.
It has what looks like an integrated headset with internal cups.
Pics to follow.
Also bottom bracket is made by Bayliss Wiley England.

Only mention I can find is in Graces Guide.
W. H. Cartwright and Sons

Sorry for the poor quality of the pic

The brand of your bicycle is "All Strength". The headbadge should depict a pachyderm with its' trunk raised.

W.H. Cartwright and sons were the business proprietors.

Your All Strength is a worthy candidate to restore for being one of the more obscure English bicycles and the mix of components. The choice of Monitor branded brakes, where the more usual Phillips is found, along with the headset and bottom bracket sets the All Strength outside of the normal small builders fare. If the chain ring happens to be a Williams, it can be useful for date identification.

Here is a link to a UK forum where the final response is the grandson of W.H. Cartwright who may be able to provide you with some useful information: All Strength Bicycle 1954 Info Please - Cycling UK Forum

Delboy Avenger 06-03-16 08:33 AM

Thanks for the response.
Its in quite a bad way, but I will try to date it.
The head badge is very faded only the words are really visible.
The bottom bracket being Bayliss Wiley is also sought after.
Some more PlusGas to the rusty bolts should help.

Gasbag 06-03-16 09:18 AM

I'm glad to be of assistance. Please keep us updated on your progress, I have an interest in the lesser known marques.

nlerner 06-03-16 03:00 PM

Here's a new Raleigh 3-speed project for me, which I picked up today. Rear hub is dated 1970, and I suspect the hockey-stick chain guard is a replacement as its font doesn't match the font on the downtube (but I could be wrong). Then again, I associate that block Raleigh font with earlier than 1970, so who knows what is original here?! Saddle is an Ideale mod. 6. Oddest thing is that there's a right-side trigger and a left-side trigger, but the left side cable isn't attached to anything. Perhaps it was fitted with a 5-speed hub at some point?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z...0/IMG_0361.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x...0/IMG_0363.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o...0/IMG_0367.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-a...0/IMG_0369.JPG

gster 06-03-16 03:38 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18819146)
Here's a new Raleigh 3-speed project for me, which I picked up today. Rear hub is dated 1970, and I suspect the hockey-stick chain guard is a replacement as its font doesn't match the font on the downtube (but I could be wrong). Then again, I associate that block Raleigh font with earlier than 1970, so who knows what is original here?! Saddle is an Ideale mod. 6. Oddest thing is that there's a right-side trigger and a left-side trigger, but the left side cable isn't attached to anything. Perhaps it was fitted with a 5-speed hub at some point?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z...0/IMG_0361.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-x...0/IMG_0363.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-o...0/IMG_0367.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-a...0/IMG_0369.JPG

That should clean up nicely.
Here's a restored '74 with the same chain guard. (not mine).
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525217http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525218

gster 06-03-16 03:46 PM

This ad for a 1962 Raleigh Superbe is interesting as it suggests that the Dynohub can be put to use to provide lighting in a fall-out shelter...

https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...62-superbe.jpg

BigChief 06-03-16 03:51 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18819225)
That should clean up nicely.
Here's a restored '74 with the same chain guard. (not mine).

Pretty sure the chainguard is original. I've seen the mismatched logos before. Great find!! I love these bikes.
edit: That's a really odd 74 DL-1 if it is original. A 74 would normally have the Raleigh Tourist chainguard, a heron chainwheel without brackets and no pin striping.

ascherer 06-03-16 04:34 PM

Slightly OT as it's about an English 5-speed: I had a fun experience this past weekend while vacationing in the Berkshires. My wife and I needed a few bits from the local bike shop. While there I noticed a handsome Raleigh Sprite waiting near the repair zone. After selecting a few items I went back to see it again. By then the owner and a mechanic (kinda hipsterish, with an oiled and curled handlebar moustache, and model-quality hairstyling) were bent over it, and it was clear that they couldn't figure out something about the front hub. I asked, "Is it binding?" The mechanic said yes. so I said, "Old Raleigh hubs have an unusual setup with a fixed cone on one side. That needs to be on the right side, or the other cone will just tighten itself up. Pull the wheel and you'll see one side won't have wrench flats." The mechanic had a look of amazement - he'd never heard of suchlike. I joined my wife to render an opinion on some gloves she was trying on, and then checked back at the shop - the wheel was off, the mechanic affirmed his new lesson, and the owner thanked me. My work there was done!

clubman 06-03-16 04:37 PM

@gster, Just like these
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-t...perbe-pair.jpg

Gasbag 06-03-16 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 18819146)
Here's a new Raleigh 3-speed project for me, which I picked up today. Rear hub is dated 1970, and I suspect the hockey-stick chain guard is a replacement as its font doesn't match the font on the downtube (but I could be wrong). Then again, I associate that block Raleigh font with earlier than 1970, so who knows what is original here?! Saddle is an Ideale mod. 6. Oddest thing is that there's a right-side trigger and a left-side trigger, but the left side cable isn't attached to anything. Perhaps it was fitted with a 5-speed hub at some point?

The gold cigar band on the seat tube indicates the date is likely correct, probably a remnant of another can be found further up the tube. My 1968 has the mismatched fonts also. Looks to be a well ridden bike and now a fun project. The French saddle might have it go into an identity crisis.

3speedslow 06-03-16 05:00 PM


Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 18819334)
Slightly OT as it's about an English 5-speed: I had a fun experience this past weekend while vacationing in the Berkshires. My wife and I needed a few bits from the local bike shop. While there I noticed a handsome Raleigh Sprite waiting near the repair zone. After selecting a few items I went back to see it again. By then the owner and a mechanic (kinda hipsterish, with an oiled and curled handlebar moustache, and model-quality hairstyling) were bent over it, and it was clear that they couldn't figure out something about the front hub. I asked, "Is it binding?" The mechanic said yes. so I said, "Old Raleigh hubs have an unusual setup with a fixed cone on one side. That needs to be on the right side, or the other cone will just tighten itself up. Pull the wheel and you'll see one side won't have wrench flats." The mechanic had a look of amazement - he'd never heard of suchlike. I joined my wife to render an opinion on some gloves she was trying on, and then checked back at the shop - the wheel was off, the mechanic affirmed his new lesson, and the owner thanked me. My work there was done!

Bravo, Bravo!

it must have made your day right in the middle of a vacation.

ascherer 06-03-16 05:02 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 18819389)
Bravo, Bravo!

it must have made your day right in the middle of a vacation.

Yeah, I said to my wife that sometimes being a geezer is good.

Gasbag 06-03-16 05:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gster (Post 18819240)
This ad for a 1962 Raleigh Superbe is interesting as it suggests that the Dynohub can be put to use to provide lighting in a fall-out shelter...

https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...62-superbe.jpg

Of course, that would require having the good sense to build your fall-out shelter like the wall of death

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525226

w1gfh 06-03-16 09:32 PM


Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 18819414)
Of course, that would require having the good sense to build your fall-out shelter like the wall of death

And I imagine pedaling a bike inside a fall-out shelter might be challenging.

http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.co.../pic-331-s.jpg

Narsinha 06-04-16 09:17 AM

Hello again,
after managing to assemble all i had found out that there were bad clunking noises two times a revolution, heard in first gear. So since i had just opened that, i wanted to have a look at the chainwheel, chain, and bottom bracket first, before dismantling all the rear again.

Luckily, i did that, I was really in for a treat. This bicycle has been used for maybe a 100 kilometers since new from 1979 or 80, stored away for decades. Every each ball bearing and cones are damaged. All of them. Some seem not to have one drop of oil in it. The bottom bracket was "adjusted" much too tight and, without oil or grease, is completely destroyed. Maybe those sounds came from there, at least i have to repair that. WTF did they do at the Raleigh works back then??

Now, after managing to get out this cottered cranks and the bottom bracket there are lots of loose balls in it, obviously they never bothered about ball cages. But apart from having to put them or new ones all back in at the right place, i want to get out the opposite outer "whatever-it's-called" thing. Is this even screwed in? The paint goes all over it, looks like one part. There is also no definite point to use a tool for unscrewing, only two very flat embossments:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...psbnive5xs.jpg

How do i get this part off?
Thanks and greetings,

Kai

Gasbag 06-04-16 09:40 AM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18820336)
Hello again,
after managing to assemble all i had found out that there were bad clunking noises two times a revolution, heard in first gear. So since i had just opened that, i wanted to have a look at the chainwheel, chain, and bottom bracket first, before dismantling all the rear again.

Luckily, i did that, I was really in for a treat. This bicycle has been used for maybe a 100 kilometers since new from 1979 or 80, stored away for decades. Every each ball bearing and cones are damaged. All of them. Some seem not to have one drop of oil in it. The bottom bracket was "adjusted" much too tight and, without oil or grease, is completely destroyed. Maybe those sounds came from there, at least i have to repair that. WTF did they do at the Raleigh works back then??

Now, after managing to get out this cottered cranks and the bottom bracket there are lots of loose balls in it, obviously they never bothered about ball cages. But apart from having to put them or new ones all back in at the right place, i want to get out the opposite outer "whatever-it's-called" thing. Is this even screwed in? The paint goes all over it, looks like one part. There is also no definite point to use a tool for unscrewing, only two very flat embossments:

How do i get this part off?
Thanks and greetings,

Kai

There are a couple of solutions to remove the fixed cup. Keep in mind that it is left handed thread and unscrews clock-wise.

The Bikesmith fixed cup tool is the best solution. Also, check out their cotter press. BB Fixed Cup Tool for English 3 Speeds

Sheldon Brown also had a solution where you stack washers and use a large bolt. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html



noglider 06-04-16 10:11 AM

I don't know how likely it is, but it seems conceivable that Raleigh didn't leave the BB that tight, that some boneheaded owner or shop mechanic did that in an overhaul. I've seen Chinese made bikes ship with bearings too tight but never old English bikes.

eatontkd 06-04-16 11:27 AM

8 Attachment(s)
I just bought two English 3 speeds:
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525310http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525311http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525315
An unknown year (some help would be appreciated...), rather clean Hercules "Royal Prince" made in Birmingham...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525312http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525313http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525314http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525316http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525317
...and a "barn fresh" 1953 Rudge.

JohnDThompson 06-04-16 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18820336)
i want to get out the opposite outer "whatever-it's-called" thing. Is this even screwed in? The paint goes all over it, looks like one part. There is also no definite point to use a tool for unscrewing, only two very flat embossments:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...psbnive5xs.jpg

How do i get this part off?

As "gasbag" notes above, Mark Stonich's tool works best. But do you really need to remove it? Unless it's worn beyond redemption, just clean it in place and re-pack with fresh balls and grease. Remember, these are proprietary 1-3/8" x 26tpi thread cups and replacements aren't always easy to find.

Narsinha 06-04-16 12:17 PM

Thanks!
ok i guess i will order this tool and some spare parts, meanwhile also have another older Raleigh, and you never know ;)
Hope i get the parts, will need a new or good used axle, balls for the bearings and cotters.

Thanks a lot, i did not expect such surprises when i bought it..:o

Have a nice weekend (or do you say have a good we?)
Kai

BigChief 06-04-16 01:24 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18820647)
Thanks!
ok i guess i will order this tool and some spare parts, meanwhile also have another older Raleigh, and you never know ;)
Hope i get the parts, will need a new or good used axle, balls for the bearings and cotters.

Thanks a lot, i did not expect such surprises when i bought it..:o

Have a nice weekend (or do you say have a good we?)
Kai

Here's a couple pictures of the Bike Smith bottom bracket tool at work. For a normal service, I don't remove the fixed cup. I use a rag on a stick to clean it from the inside. But, since you suspect cup damage, I can see why you would want to remove it.
I hope they're not damaged. Bottom brackets are hard to find. That's one reason I never pass up a wrecked bike.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525326http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=525327

gster 06-04-16 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 18819338)

Sweet Daddy Siki !!

gster 06-04-16 05:14 PM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18820336)
Hello again,
after managing to assemble all i had found out that there were bad clunking noises two times a revolution, heard in first gear. So since i had just opened that, i wanted to have a look at the chainwheel, chain, and bottom bracket first, before dismantling all the rear again.

Luckily, i did that, I was really in for a treat. This bicycle has been used for maybe a 100 kilometers since new from 1979 or 80, stored away for decades. Every each ball bearing and cones are damaged. All of them. Some seem not to have one drop of oil in it. The bottom bracket was "adjusted" much too tight and, without oil or grease, is completely destroyed. Maybe those sounds came from there, at least i have to repair that. WTF did they do at the Raleigh works back then??

Now, after managing to get out this cottered cranks and the bottom bracket there are lots of loose balls in it, obviously they never bothered about ball cages. But apart from having to put them or new ones all back in at the right place, i want to get out the opposite outer "whatever-it's-called" thing. Is this even screwed in? The paint goes all over it, looks like one part. There is also no definite point to use a tool for unscrewing, only two very flat embossments:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...psbnive5xs.jpg

How do i get this part off?
Thanks and greetings,

Kai

No need to remove (generally, unless badly pitted/damaged etc), you should be able to clean with it in place.
Loose bearings are better than caged (caged were cheaper and quicker to install).


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