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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 11-23-16 11:26 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Restored a 3 speed trigger tonight. It had the usual problems of a bent case and under tensioned pawl spring.
I used a machinists vise and punch to dissemble it. I carefully straightened out the brass faceplate by hand. Then I used a 1/4" x 3/4" bar of steel and plastic hammer to square up the case on an anvil. I had a NOS replacement spring, so I used it, but the original is still good enough to use again. I used the new spring as a template to return it to it's original shape. Another wrecked shifter fixed. This one goes on my 55 Rudge.
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BigChief 11-23-16 11:27 PM

2 Attachment(s)
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capnjonny 11-24-16 12:41 AM

s/a shifter
 
Do you have a picture of the inside showing the position of all the internal parts?

I have a shifter on the bench right now. Would only take it apart if it was easy and the re assembly was easy as well.

The 69 Sport is done except for the tires. The original Dunlops looked o/k at first glance but on closer inspection they are toast. Dunlops are 26x1 3/8 to fit rim E.A.23 or F23.

I brought home some CST city travelers size 26 x 1.50 (38 - 559) and they are not even close. The inside diameter of the bead is about 1/2" smaller than the dunlops.

So where can I get cheap tires for this bike and what size do I look for?

BigChief 11-24-16 06:42 AM

I wouldn't take the shifter apart unless the case was bent or the internal parts were choked with rust. Getting it back together is tricky because you have to get the pins lined up with the holes in the case while they're under spring pressure. If the only problem is the spring, yours has the mouse trap type, you can just remove the pin holding the spring and pawl and leave the rest in place. Then, there's many late 60s shifters out there missing their plastic covers. They broke frequently. If your cover is in good shape, it might be best to find one with a broken or missing cover.
You need 590mm tires. I like Kendas.

smontanaro 11-24-16 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19211142)
You need 590mm tires. I like Kendas.

I know they probably don't look right, and might not squeeze in there on Raleighs and other 590-as-original bikes, but when I converted my Schwinn Speedster from 597 to 590 rims, I went with Pasela Col de la Vie tires (40 mm width). They are quite nice, and help me keep my resolution to never buy Kenda tires again.

BigChief 11-24-16 08:46 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 19210998)
Do you have a picture of the inside showing the position of all the internal parts?

I have a shifter on the bench right now. Would only take it apart if it was easy and the re assembly was easy as well.

The 69 Sport is done except for the tires. The original Dunlops looked o/k at first glance but on closer inspection they are toast. Dunlops are 26x1 3/8 to fit rim E.A.23 or F23.

I brought home some CST city travelers size 26 x 1.50 (38 - 559) and they are not even close. The inside diameter of the bead is about 1/2" smaller than the dunlops.

So where can I get cheap tires for this bike and what size do I look for?

Ahh, found it. Here's a picture of a rusty, late 60s early 70s shifter. This is how the cam is located on the trigger when you re-assemble. The second hole in the cam is for the case pin.
Attachment 544037

Attachment 544038

adventurepdx 11-24-16 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 19210648)
Pack of five, including a Raleigh Superbe:

5 Bicycles ~ Raleigh ~ Columbia ~ Schwinn

Also in that five pack is what appears to be a 1984 Raleigh Tamarack mountain bike. It would be the blue "Mountain Tour" one. The Tamarack was quite the anomaly since it was a 650B MTB offered for only one year. And this is decades before "27.5" was ever a gleam in a marketer's eye. :)

thumpism 11-24-16 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 19210648)
Pack of five, including a Raleigh Superbe:

5 Bicycles ~ Raleigh ~ Columbia ~ Schwinn

Enlivening the link helps.

5 Bicycles ~ Raleigh ~ Columbia ~ Schwinn

scale 11-26-16 07:04 PM

here we go again.....
 
I picked up a superbe last september.....and i was just thinking to myself..Do you know what that thing needs? New wheels!

I just ordered another set of cr-18s and brass washers. The rear 40 hole was only 20 bucks from niagra through amazon. The last time i did this i ordered through amazon and it shipped from bikewagon at $28+shipping. This was Niagras last 40 hole it appears. IF i try to go order it again, its $31 and shipping from bike wagon. I tried to add 2 to the cart and it wouldnt let me stating it was their last one.

I love niagra. They are great. Lets hope they get more in stock and are able to keep the price low. That is a great price for a modern alloy wheel.

Last time i laced up a 3 speed i ordered the incorrect spoke length. I ended up getting the 3 cross length and not the 4x for the rear. I laced 3x and its been fine.

Is there any reason to go with 4x over 3x other than strength? I might just go 3x again. I already know the length :)

The front will be more of a challenge this time. Dynohub! I will get it figured out. I have all winter.

I am sure glad this thread exists.....and their are such passionate people that like the 3 speed. I think they are great bikes.

desconhecido 11-26-16 11:42 PM


Originally Posted by scale (Post 19215150)
Last time i laced up a 3 speed i ordered the incorrect spoke length. I ended up getting the 3 cross length and not the 4x for the rear. I laced 3x and its been fine.

Is there any reason to go with 4x over 3x other than strength? I might just go 3x again. I already know the length :)

The front will be more of a challenge this time. Dynohub! I will get it figured out. I have all winter.

Several years ago we had a discussion about the 40h hub with 4X and why Raleigh did it. My understanding was that they used 4X on the rear and 3X on the front (32h) so that they could use the same spoke length on each wheel. Others felt it was for the perceived strength advantage of 4X. These days, it doesn't matter. A well-built wheel with good ss spokes in a 3X pattern will be as strong and durable as the original wheel.

The front wheel with the Dyno hub -- that can be a challenge. I've built just one and it was a pita. Getting the spokes on the side with the keyholes to stay put while moving stuff around and getting the spokes in the proper rim holes is not easy. J D Thompson says that he uses bits of match sticks (as I recall) to hold the spoke ends while maneuvering in additional spokes. The wheel I built was 36h so it was 3X on both sides and eventually it all went together and resulted in a fine wheel, but it was frustrating. If you are doing a 32 hole, you might want to do the same as the original -- 2X on the large side and 3X on the small.

I have a 32h Dyno that I bought spokes for, but never got the rim to build. I measured the heck out of it and came up with 283mm for the small flange side, 3X and 257mm for the large flange, 2X. My measurements of the hub match pretty well with the values in the spocalc spreadsheet except for a variation in hub width, but that dimension doesn't affect the spoke length by much. See the formulas in the Brandt book.

alanwj1 11-27-16 06:49 AM

WOW! This so reminds me of my 3 speed Schwinn Racer of 1956 vintage. Got that when I was 10 for my paper route. Rode it for 6 years and many, many miles. It was unfortunate the day that 4 wheel motorized machine came into my life!

Oops! I was replying to a post by "sixtyfive" on the Raleigh 3 speeds, but looks like I ended up somewhere else.

scale 11-27-16 08:30 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 19215546)
The front wheel with the Dyno hub -- that can be a challenge. I've built just one and it was a pita. Getting the spokes on the side with the keyholes to stay put while moving stuff around and getting the spokes in the proper rim holes is not easy. J D Thompson says that he uses bits of match sticks (as I recall) to hold the spoke ends while maneuvering in additional spokes. The wheel I built was 36h so it was 3X on both sides and eventually it all went together and resulted in a fine wheel, but it was frustrating. If you are doing a 32 hole, you might want to do the same as the original -- 2X on the large side and 3X on the small.

I have a 32h Dyno that I bought spokes for, but never got the rim to build. I measured the heck out of it and came up with 283mm for the small flange side, 3X and 257mm for the large flange, 2X. My measurements of the hub match pretty well with the values in the spocalc spreadsheet except for a variation in hub width, but that dimension doesn't affect the spoke length by much. See the formulas in the Brandt book.

yeah....i figured those holes would be challenging. Thanks for the info on spoke lengths. I found another site where they mention going with 284mm for the small and 256mm for the large. It looks like you are spot on. I will measure to be sure before calling danscomp to place my order.

I am showing the spokes priced on the site at .25c per spoke. I could have sworn they were .40 or even .70 the last time i ordered. Perhaps they are more expensive with the nipple and these custom lengths? Ill figure that out when i call them.

BigChief 11-27-16 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by alanwj1 (Post 19215730)
WOW! This so reminds me of my 3 speed Schwinn Racer of 1956 vintage. Got that when I was 10 for my paper route. Rode it for 6 years and many, many miles. It was unfortunate the day that 4 wheel motorized machine came into my life!

Oops! I was replying to a post by "sixtyfive" on the Raleigh 3 speeds, but looks like I ended up somewhere else.

You didn't end up anywhere else. This is just a long, long thread. It's turned into this forum's hang out spot for lovers of this style of bike. It's titled English 3 speeds, but American and European bikes fit in as well. Welcome.

crank_addict 11-27-16 12:10 PM

Recently spotted these split designed tubes. Might be ideal for three speeds and rod-brake / caliper types. I realize one could still patch without complete wheel removal or use a goop sealant but for complete tube change, these look interesting.

http://assets.academy.com/mgen/70/10571970.jpg

dweenk 11-27-16 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 19216213)
Recently spotted these split designed tubes. Might be ideal for three speeds and rod-brake / caliper types. I realize one could still patch without complete wheel removal or use a goop sealant but for complete tube change, these look interesting.

http://assets.academy.com/mgen/70/10571970.jpg

Are the ends of the tube glued together, or does air pressure hold the ends together?

crank_addict 11-27-16 02:36 PM

^Have yet to try them but no glue is used. Mate the ends by fit only. I don't know how well the molding is or if they sort of snap together. Regardless it might be a good idea to use a small piece of double stick tape.

I'm planning on them for a Raleigh DL-1 and pre-install. Even if it flats, I would expect it simplifies patching and reinstall.

Loose Chain 11-27-16 05:26 PM

Well, those are weird.

J

BigChief 11-27-16 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 19216495)
^Have yet to try them but no glue is used. Mate the ends by fit only. I don't know how well the molding is or if they sort of snap together. Regardless it might be a good idea to use a small piece of double stick tape.

I'm planning on them for a Raleigh DL-1 and pre-install. Even if it flats, I would expect it simplifies patching and reinstall.

Looks like a great idea for rear roadster wheels. Sure would simplify patching and swapping out tubes. Removing brake pads on the front wheel doesn't bother me much. I'd stick to a normal tube there

arex 11-27-16 07:26 PM

I'm skeptical. If the solution was really that simple, we'd have seen these 60 years ago.

rustystrings61 11-27-16 09:54 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 19217078)
I'm skeptical. If the solution was really that simple, we'd have seen these 60 years ago.

Actually, if you go back far enough these WERE the standard tubes used, and if your tube was undersized you had a flat spot and if you were using an oversized tube you had a lumpy spot. The tubes we all know replaced these a long long time ago - maybe before the First World War? Between the wars maybe?

arex 11-27-16 10:54 PM


Originally Posted by rustystrings61 (Post 19217353)
Actually, if you go back far enough these WERE the standard tubes used, and if your tube was undersized you had a flat spot and if you were using an oversized tube you had a lumpy spot. The tubes we all know replaced these a long long time ago - maybe before the First World War? Between the wars maybe?

That's kind of my point, though...unless these tubes are made PERFECTLY, yeah, you're gonna have a lump or a soft spot where the two ends meet. I'd find that constant k-thump k-thump k-thump to be fairly maddening, and to have two wheels doing it would be a definite dealbreaker.

greg3rd48 11-28-16 06:44 AM

Such a gorgeous setup.


Originally Posted by Salamandrine (Post 19205458)
Expensive but worth it. The Carradice zipped roll was much more bag than I was expecting. I splurged on the special tweed version. Not sure if it's exactly the same size, but it's big enough to use in lieu of a rando type handlebar bag for long day trips. Plenty of room for lunch, wallet, phone, windbreaker, etc, as well as the usual spare tube and mini pump.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l-...M=w633-h844-no


BigChief 11-28-16 07:57 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 19217447)
That's kind of my point, though...unless these tubes are made PERFECTLY, yeah, you're gonna have a lump or a soft spot where the two ends meet. I'd find that constant k-thump k-thump k-thump to be fairly maddening, and to have two wheels doing it would be a definite dealbreaker.

I'm hoping somebody here will be brave enough to give it a try and report back. Right now, I'm carrying a spare tube. I don't have a fender to deal with, so it's a bit easier. Sometimes it's hard to spot the leak in the tube and any sharp things poking through the tire with the wheel mounted on the bike, so I'm ready to pull the rear wheel on the road. I do have a spare master link in my kit. I can see me loosing that little clip. Never tried that spray in fix a flat stuff. That may be the best roadster option.

Salubrious 11-28-16 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 19215546)

The front wheel with the Dyno hub -- that can be a challenge. I've built just one and it was a pita. Getting the spokes on the side with the keyholes to stay put while moving stuff around and getting the spokes in the proper rim holes is not easy. J D Thompson says that he uses bits of match sticks (as I recall) to hold the spoke ends while maneuvering in additional spokes. The wheel I built was 36h so it was 3X on both sides and eventually it all went together and resulted in a fine wheel, but it was frustrating. If you are doing a 32 hole, you might want to do the same as the original -- 2X on the large side and 3X on the small.

I have a 32h Dyno that I bought spokes for, but never got the rim to build. I measured the heck out of it and came up with 283mm for the small flange side, 3X and 257mm for the large flange, 2X. My measurements of the hub match pretty well with the values in the spocalc spreadsheet except for a variation in hub width, but that dimension doesn't affect the spoke length by much. See the formulas in the Brandt book.

Actually its pretty easy- I've built several. Just for fun on the first one (for my Superbe) I did a radial pattern on the dyno side and a 1-cross on the other side.

The trick is to do the dyno side first. That holds the wheel together while you string up the non-dyno side.

ollo_ollo 11-29-16 09:53 AM

3 Attachment(s)
This 3 speed has been hanging out on the Portland, OR CL for a few months, asking $300:

"OK first things first..this Bicycle looks like it just came off the showroom floor! This made in Norway DBS or (Den Beste Sykkel) translated The Best Bicycle... all original down the the tires and equipped with a Torpedo Sachs made in west germany 3 speed... DBS is in excellent condition and rides beautifully. It has dual brakes... coaster brake and Front Drum brake. Front and rear lights are generator activated and work great. Standover height is 30.5 inches. Thanks for looking Mark Local Pick up only"


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