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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Ballenxj 11-04-17 08:47 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19971370)
This is an actual count 32/40. You can see spoke nipple spacing is closer on the rear as well due to 8 more spokes

They sent me better pics of the DL22L. Looks like it will clean up nicely, the paint is great!https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...3&disp=safe&zwhttps://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...4&disp=safe&zwhttps://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...1&disp=safe&zw

Ah, better pictures help. Lucky You on this sweet acquisition. :thumb:

thunderworks 11-04-17 11:29 AM

Raleigh Superbe
 
I have an early 1980's Raleigh Superbe that has never really been ridden. It's complete with Dynohub, rack, Brooks leather seat and even has a key for the fork lock. I'm thinking of selling it. Does anyone have an opinion about it's value? It's the bronze color and and 21" frame.

TIA
R.

tmac100 11-04-17 12:01 PM


Originally Posted by thunderworks (Post 19971997)
I have an early 1980's Raleigh Superbe that has never really been ridden. It's complete with Dynohub, rack, Brooks leather seat and even has a key for the fork lock. I'm thinking of selling it. Does anyone have an opinion about it's value? It's the bronze color and and 21" frame.

TIA
R.

It is worth exactly what someone will offer you. No more, and no less. Lotsa scrap metal and gems out there- all depends.

My 2 Rolex watches (both genuine ones) were thrown away as useless rubbish by uninformed cleaners (and my ex.). Yup - just things.... :thumb:

thunderworks 11-04-17 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by tmac100 (Post 19972057)
It is worth exactly what someone will offer you. No more, and no less. Lotsa scrap metal and gems out there- all depends.

My 2 Rolex watches (both genuine ones) were thrown away as useless rubbish by uninformed cleaners (and my ex.). Yup - just things.... :thumb:

I certainly understand that - Free Market - and all that, but hoped someone with more knowledge than me could provide some guidance.

dweenk 11-04-17 12:27 PM

You can discover the exact date from the rear hub, it will be stamped on the housing. The value will depend on your location. In an urban market it will be at the high end - in a rural market, at the low end. Other considerations are:

1. Are you willing to pack and ship it (a must for a decent price on e-bay)?
2. Has it been completely serviced, or being sold as-is?

The Superbe is a nice bike, and since you have the key to the fork lock, it adds a bit of value. You must have photos to get any honest opinion.

johnnyspaghetti 11-04-17 05:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by thunderworks (Post 19971997)
I have an early 1980's Raleigh Superbe that has never really been ridden. It's complete with Dynohub, rack, Brooks leather seat and even has a key for the fork lock. I'm thinking of selling it. Does anyone have an opinion about it's value? It's the bronze color and and 21" frame.

TIA
R.

I recently parted out a bent frame1969 Superbe off CL. The guy gave me $225 for the following
Complete front wheel w/Dynahub rust pitted
all SA wires, associated frame/fork clips,
frt light good,
rear light damaged, but usable no red lens,
bent chaingaurd,
Brooks B72 leather bad split at adjuster screw rivit,
69 SA 3-speed complete wheel assembly,
Cranks w/ bent sprocket crank arm. rounded type pedals,
BB good.
Headset bearings&races
Attachment 587402

I have the 23"frame & fork. I kept the cable & shifter complete, frt & rear brake & cable assm.& good fenders, Good bars & neck
I bought this as a basket case for $50 unaware of damage to the frame from a deceased mans wife. She sent me a link to another mans bike misrepresenting it. I don't think she meant to do any of this But gave me the fifty back & let me keep the bike. This frame may still straighten if I had the means to do it.
I didn't buy this bike to sell the parts
This bike was in pretty banged around shape & this guy offered me $225. for the parts offered sold!

SirMike1983 11-04-17 07:50 PM

Fall color here finally - 1947 Schwinn Continental 3-speed down to the park.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_bvt_jBPk...104_154417.jpg

SirMike1983 11-04-17 08:17 PM

Does anyone have a longer bottom bracket spindle from the DL-1 or Twenty they would sell? I believe the number is 8GC - it's longer, with wider races than the standard Sports spindle. I have an export model I'm fixing up and need a spindle. The original was manufactured with the flats not 180 degrees opposite, and I'd like to get a better spindle for it.

BigChief 11-04-17 09:32 PM

Those spindles are usually pretty accurate. Where I've found inconsistencies is the bores of the crank arms. I hope that's where your problem lies. It would be a whole lot easier to find a good heron crankset than one of those 08GC spindles. If the spindle flats aren't exactly parallel, you do have a bit of wiggle room to have someone with a surface grinder resurface them since Raleigh cotters are cut a bit deeper than most. But I suspect that the bores in the crank arms aren't matched exactly. I'd like to see pictures of your project if you have a chance.

SirMike1983 11-04-17 09:52 PM

I can check that again - I do have a spare non-drive crank arm that I can use as a test to see what's up with it. The bore on the non-drive might be a little larger, based on the cotter depth. If that's it, I'll just buy a new crank set.

I think this was a continental European export model, perhaps to West Germany. It came with an Austrian-made tire entirely marked in German and came with a US-made Goodyear tube in 28 x 1-1/2 size. This is the first time I've seen a US-made tube specifically for British roadster wheels. I thought at first it might be Danish market because it looks a lot like a Dawn I owned a few years ago, but it lacks the Danish import stamping.

3alarmer 11-04-17 10:58 PM


Originally Posted by thunderworks (Post 19971997)
I have an early 1980's Raleigh Superbe that has never really been ridden. It's complete with Dynohub, rack, Brooks leather seat and even has a key for the fork lock. I'm thinking of selling it. Does anyone have an opinion about it's value? It's the bronze color and and 21" frame.

TIA
R.

...there's a separate forum for appraisals: Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries

But it's pretty useless to start a thread unless you have some photos to post. Condition is a large part of valuation in something like an older bicycle, and three speeds, even the best ones like your Superbe, usually top out at a lower value than older race bikes. But that'w where someone might give you an idea what it might bring on CL or on E-bay.

I have a Superbe, but it's far from pristine.


I suspect most of the people in this thread will tend to underestimate the value, but it's just a suspicion.
If you can find a local Tweed Ride group using Google, that's your best bet. Show up with it at a ride and let everyone know it's for sale.

BigChief 11-05-17 05:56 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19973037)
I can check that again - I do have a spare non-drive crank arm that I can use as a test to see what's up with it. The bore on the non-drive might be a little larger, based on the cotter depth. If that's it, I'll just buy a new crank set.

I think this was a continental European export model, perhaps to West Germany. It came with an Austrian-made tire entirely marked in German and came with a US-made Goodyear tube in 28 x 1-1/2 size. This is the first time I've seen a US-made tube specifically for British roadster wheels. I thought at first it might be Danish market because it looks a lot like a Dawn I owned a few years ago, but it lacks the Danish import stamping.

What happens sometimes is that the centerline of the cotter hole isn't the same distance from the centerline of the spindle hole as the opposite crank arm and/or isn't drilled square to the spindle bore. So you have two perfectly matched cotters, but one seats deeper than the other. If I have a nice 180 degree spread and enough threads poke through the arm, I'll just press in the cotters and call it good. Sometimes you get a better fit if you reverse the direction of the cotters. I just write it off as being another one of those Raleigh quirks.

thunderworks 11-05-17 08:45 AM


Originally Posted by 3alarmer (Post 19973104)
...there's a separate forum for appraisals: Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals and Inquiries

But it's pretty useless to start a thread unless you have some photos to post. Condition is a large part of valuation in something like an older bicycle, and three speeds, even the best ones like your Superbe, usually top out at a lower value than older race bikes. But that'w where someone might give you an idea what it might bring on CL or on E-bay.

I have a Superbe, but it's far from pristine.


I suspect most of the people in this thread will tend to underestimate the value, but it's just a suspicion.
If you can find a local Tweed Ride group using Google, that's your best bet. Show up with it at a ride and let everyone know it's for sale.

Thanks for the valuable input . . . I'll post a picture eventually if I decide to sell. I agree most people on the Forum tend to underestimate value.

johnnyspaghetti 11-05-17 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by thunderworks (Post 19973475)
Thanks for the valuable input . . . I'll post a picture eventually if I decide to sell. I agree most people on the Forum tend to underestimate value.

One factor is cleaning out their garage folks often will disgaurd these bikes for next to nothing or nothing. The cross section of 3 speed English enthusiasts is narrow. They are not for everyone's liking. This one being a ladies model & hefty price will dog this sale of this one although looking as new https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/h...369370422.html
A Superbe mens frame would do much better if in this condition.

clubman 11-05-17 12:37 PM


Originally Posted by thunderworks (Post 19973475)
Thanks for the valuable input . . . I'll post a picture eventually if I decide to sell. I agree most people on the Forum tend to underestimate value.

I think this list has a realistic perspective on the price of bikes. Value is completely determined by the market you live in. University towns in the North East have an abundance of English bikes, usually due to strong cultural ties with Great Britain. I had at least a dozen Superbes pass thru my hands when I lived in Toronto, all bought for less than $50 and none could be flipped for $200. It took me a year to sell a good '55 womens Humber Sports for $150 here in Nova Scotia. YMMV.

SirMike1983 11-05-17 02:55 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19973310)
What happens sometimes is that the centerline of the cotter hole isn't the same distance from the centerline of the spindle hole as the opposite crank arm and/or isn't drilled square to the spindle bore. So you have two perfectly matched cotters, but one seats deeper than the other. If I have a nice 180 degree spread and enough threads poke through the arm, I'll just press in the cotters and call it good. Sometimes you get a better fit if you reverse the direction of the cotters. I just write it off as being another one of those Raleigh quirks.

No luck with a different crank arm - still off. Looks like the spindle to me - one flat is visibly off from where it should be. I may try a spindle from an Indian DL-1 copy. The #8GC is just something that does not come up for sale much in the US. I've been checking eBay for several weeks and not seen a single one.

There's actually a good Youtube video on this subject - that the DL-1 spindle is not the same as the Sports and that before the early 1970s DL-1s use longer cranks as well. But the Indian companies tended to copy the DL-1 rather than the Sports, so hopefully I can get an Indian spindle and run it with new bearing balls and the stock Raleigh cups (in decent shape still).

There are a couple of sub-par elements on this bike. The spindle is one, and the rear fender decal is visibly way off to the left. The frame itself is OK, but you can see where the joints were not quite as crisp as on my 1958 Sports (this one is a 1963 model, so it should not be all that different). I wonder if the export models got a little less quality control and slower updates than US and UK spec ones. I know they used those round, narrow bars longer on the export models as well. But that's just speculation.

BigChief 11-05-17 02:57 PM

Us 3 speeders are an enthusiastic group, but we are a tiny niche in a small C&V bicycle market. On top of that, these are common bikes. To me, that's part of their appeal. They were part of everyday life and had more historical impact then the exotic machines. I don't see how these bikes could ever get really pricey. There are too many of them. The buyers tend to be more inclined to riding and wrenching than collecting and unlike something like a 56 Chevy Belair, most people would never even notice one on the road. I see people trying to get big prices for them from time to time, but I doubt they will ever be able to get that ball rolling. They're too big to hang on the wall. You have to be a rider to appreciate them.

BigChief 11-05-17 03:18 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19974070)
No luck with a different crank arm - still off. Looks like the spindle to me - one flat is visibly off from where it should be. I may try a spindle from an Indian DL-1 copy. The #8GC is just something that does not come up for sale much in the US. I've been checking eBay for several weeks and not seen a single one.

There's actually a good Youtube video on this subject - that the DL-1 spindle is not the same as the Sports and that before the early 1970s DL-1s use longer cranks as well. But the Indian companies tended to copy the DL-1 rather than the Sports, so hopefully I can get an Indian spindle and run it with new bearing balls and the stock Raleigh cups (in decent shape still).

There are a couple of sub-par elements on this bike. The spindle is one, and the rear fender decal is visibly way off to the left. The frame itself is OK, but you can see where the joints were not quite as crisp as on my 1958 Sports (this one is a 1963 model, so it should not be all that different). I wonder if the export models got a little less quality control and slower updates than US and UK spec ones. I know they used those round, narrow bars longer on the export models as well. But that's just speculation.

That's too bad. I have run into ridiculous quality control issues with Raleighs myself. You could check with Yellow Jersey. They have 26TPI BB sets on their roadster page. And, most machine shops will have a small surface grinder. It's possible the flats could be cleaned up and the spindle still useable with the non Raleigh cut cotters from Bikesmith. Just a thought. I've never seen an original Raleigh 08GC spindle for sale either.

arty dave 11-05-17 03:41 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19974070)
No luck with a different crank arm - still off. Looks like the spindle to me - one flat is visibly off from where it should be. I may try a spindle from an Indian DL-1 copy. The #8GC is just something that does not come up for sale much in the US. I've been checking eBay for several weeks and not seen a single one.

There's actually a good Youtube video on this subject - that the DL-1 spindle is not the same as the Sports and that before the early 1970s DL-1s use longer cranks as well. But the Indian companies tended to copy the DL-1 rather than the Sports, so hopefully I can get an Indian spindle and run it with new bearing balls and the stock Raleigh cups (in decent shape still).

There are a couple of sub-par elements on this bike. The spindle is one, and the rear fender decal is visibly way off to the left. The frame itself is OK, but you can see where the joints were not quite as crisp as on my 1958 Sports (this one is a 1963 model, so it should not be all that different). I wonder if the export models got a little less quality control and slower updates than US and UK spec ones. I know they used those round, narrow bars longer on the export models as well. But that's just speculation.

It'll be interesting to hear what you think of the Indian made spindle (from Yellow Jersey?). I've been searching too as the spindle and cups from my DL-1 were pitted, and also had no luck in finding that size. I've just had it out for it's 1st test ride yesterday, and could feel no roughness in the BB. I did put in new bearings, and it feels like a new bike to ride :)

arty dave 11-05-17 04:53 PM

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4520/...75e0c7e2_c.jpgIMG20171105194202 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

It's a rider!!! I took a quick shot on the second test ride - I did a complete rookie mistake by not putting any ant-rotation washers on the rear hub :thumb: Don't try this at home kids! So the 1st test ride was very short and thankfully no damage done. Luckily had some from a spares hub as this bike didn't come with any. I still need to hook up the front drum brake - the threaded part of the rod was missing (broken off), and I will have a friend weld a new piece on. I'll post some better pics once that's done and I can go for a longer ride. After a rebuild the rear drum stops a lot better than it did when I first got the bike, so I think the front should give me some decent stopping power.

It is so quiet! Couldn't believe how quiet it was, and then the SA ticking away nicely as it should, quadrant shifter doing its job well. New parts are a SRAM PC-1 chain - Its nickel plated and reasonably priced; Raleigh Roadster tyres - these seem nice; and the re-pop grips - these are a medium rubber and quite comfortable.

22 x 46 seems like just the right gearing, and seems to be what most DL-1 riders go with. The original drivechain was 3/16" rather than 1/8", and I was having trouble finding that size chain in the right length here in Australia without spending a small fortune or buying 2 chains to join together. The drive side crank I've used is from an old Apollo - it looks the part, is 1/8" and was free. I'll probably get a Raleigh crankset for it eventually.

So this is DL-1 version A - can I call it a semi-scorcher? :) Version B will have decals, mudguards, chainguard, headlight, and rebuilt pedals. Possibly a rack. The mudguards need a lot of work and the chainguard is missing the rear access cover.

browngw 11-05-17 06:37 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19974257)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4520/...75e0c7e2_c.jpgIMG20171105194202 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

It's a rider!!! I took a quick shot on the second test ride - I did a complete rookie mistake by not putting any ant-rotation washers on the rear hub :thumb: Don't try this at home kids! So the 1st test ride was very short and thankfully no damage done. Luckily had some from a spares hub as this bike didn't come with any. I still need to hook up the front drum brake - the threaded part of the rod was missing (broken off), and I will have a friend weld a new piece on. I'll post some better pics once that's done and I can go for a longer ride. After a rebuild the rear drum stops a lot better than it did when I first got the bike, so I think the front should give me some decent stopping power.

It is so quiet! Couldn't believe how quiet it was, and then the SA ticking away nicely as it should, quadrant shifter doing its job well. New parts are a SRAM PC-1 chain - Its nickel plated and reasonably priced; Raleigh Roadster tyres - these seem nice; and the re-pop grips - these are a medium rubber and quite comfortable.

22 x 46 seems like just the right gearing, and seems to be what most DL-1 riders go with. The original drivechain was 3/16" rather than 1/8", and I was having trouble finding that size chain in the right length here in Australia without spending a small fortune or buying 2 chains to join together. The drive side crank I've used is from an old Apollo - it looks the part, is 1/8" and was free. I'll probably get a Raleigh crankset for it eventually.

So this is DL-1 version A - can I call it a semi-scorcher? :) Version B will have decals, mudguards, chainguard, headlight, and rebuilt pedals. Possibly a rack. The mudguards need a lot of work and the chainguard is missing the rear access cover.

Good job! Another one lives on.
Maybe this recent one of mine will be next.

johnnyspaghetti 11-05-17 06:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This just popped up an hour ago. I'v already contacted & made the arrangements for P/U tomorrow.
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/a...375193682.html

It looks Shimano, I wonder who manufactures that cotter crank bike as a Hawthron?

Attachment 587600

Commando 11-05-17 07:32 PM

Lovin the "Scorcher" builds, guys. And this one being Canadian, the Supercycle makes it even better.
Once my house move is done, one of the first projects is to build my Aussie 'Healing' frame into a similar style. Not sure if if I'll use a 3 speed or a coaster, however. I do have a TCW laying around....


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 19968177)
The '72 Raleigh built Supercycle "Scorcher" has been successfully launched. Dubbed "Golden Glow Express" after a well known beverage from one of the older establishments near the beach in our little town of Port Dover. Front wheel is a little bent and some cables to trim but a good rider nonetheless. Lots of projects to work on this winter including another recent DL-1.


SirMike1983 11-05-17 10:08 PM

Here's the bike all cleaned up.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K4hPqdLFg...105_104755.jpg

Austrian-made tire:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ati5za1Ih...014_145734.jpg

US-made roadster tube:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NMe2zp-Nz...014_150332.jpg

Crank issue:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5AgOV7GeV...105_104809.jpg


The spindle and bottom bracket kit I'm ordering is indeed from Yellow Jersey. I sent them an inquiry about spindle sizing and they seem to have one that is closer than anything else I've seen online so far.

The bike is certainly ride-able, it's just the cranks have a sort of strange feel. It's just off enough to notice, but not off so much as to slow you down. It's a really plush riding bike with the B73 tirple spring saddle and those bike wheels/tires.

I decided not to use the original rear drop stand. One of the locking lugs was broken off and it really was not in good shape. I used an ESGE on the bike, though the kickstand is just a tad short at 287mm. Other than the crank issue, everything is working well. Even has its original wiring and wire hooks for the dynohub. I had new keys made by a locksmith in Texas. Grips are the original celluloid, which I had no idea they were even using still on Raleigh in the 1960s (usually see the rubber "barrel" type), but I guess with export models you get older stuff sometimes.

The seat tube has decals similar to a Danish market Dawn I had several years ago:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QdDWJmAMI...014_150627.jpg

BigChief 11-06-17 06:33 AM

@SirMike1983 Wow! What a beautiful roadster. Fabulous. According to the US catalogs, 22" DL-1s weren't available in the US market until the later 70s. What a great find. It's a good bet some GI stationed in Europe brought this back with him. Hang on to that spindle. It dosen't look too far off in the picture. I'm still convinced it could be ground parallel and have enough steel to work with non Raleigh cotters.


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