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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

johnnyspaghetti 05-23-18 01:25 AM


Originally Posted by Arrowana (Post 20353206)
That is an awesome idea for cleaning the rims. These are clean enough that they won't need much work to look new. My Raleigh has a nice set of alloy 650b rims laced to a modern dynamo hub and an AW from '75. The Mercury will get those, and the stock wheels will be used to get some other 3-speed rolling again.

Today I removed the kidapult, and wiped away a bit of the dust. It looks like there is some pinstriping on the frame that matches the chainguard, so I think I'll have to keep it on there. Might be tempted to line the lugs with the same color as the pinstriping if I want it to look extra fancy.

Another MPLS guy. I have too many parts. Good parts and pieces.

paulb_in_bkln 05-23-18 11:12 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20353113)
So I disassembled the hub again and spent some time figuring out what should move and what shouldn't. There were a couple things that looked like they should slide, so I ever so gently pried them loose. They weren't corroded, but they were firmly stuck with gunk. The parts I freed up were the sliding clutch and the thrust ring (I have no idea). After the axle and the sliding parts were cleaned and oiled, I reassembled the hub, and damned if it doesn't work! I'm pretty sure that if I kept on with the PB Blaster, it would have loosened up, but it really needed to be cleaned, too. Now all I need to do is find where I placed a few of the parts - of course, I set them aside in a a safe memorable place somewhere.

I just finished repacking the hub on the old Rudge I bought a few weeks ago. I think it was oiled recently after sitting around relatively dry a few years. Lots of sludge and hard deposits. Anyway, clean now. Shouldn't need this treatment again for a long time.

ddeand 05-23-18 11:23 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20355926)
I just finished repacking the hub on the old Rudge I bought a few weeks ago. I think it was oiled recently after sitting around relatively dry a few years. Lots of sludge and hard deposits. Anyway, clean now. Shouldn't need this treatment again for a long time.


Easy peasey.
My first attempt at cleaning the innards was almost comical - every mistake I could make occurred. I had pins and cogs falling out and rolling around, and at one point, one of the tiny pawl springs made an escape. That's the point I thought I was screwed. Amazingly, I found the spring on the floor and was able to get everything back together. The second time (the successful time) I took the thing apart, I was much more respectful of the possible catastrophes that could happen and fixed the frozen hub issue. The learning curve is pretty high, but I'm getting there!

paulb_in_bkln 05-23-18 03:26 PM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20355946)
My first attempt at cleaning the innards was almost comical - every mistake I could make occurred. I had pins and cogs falling out and rolling around, and at one point, one of the tiny pawl springs made an escape. That's the point I thought I was screwed. Amazingly, I found the spring on the floor and was able to get everything back together. The second time (the successful time) I took the thing apart, I was much more respectful of the possible catastrophes that could happen and fixed the frozen hub issue. The learning curve is pretty high, but I'm getting there!

Even with watching a video many times, a few detours here, too. The care you have to take keeping those pins in place...

paulb_in_bkln 05-23-18 03:31 PM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20355214)
My bike is in pieces in boxes, so a pic of that wouldn’t have worked well.

Is this why it was free?

paulb_in_bkln 05-23-18 03:45 PM

I see plenty of derelict Sports but not many abandoned bikes with rod brakes. This one's along my daily commute; an Avon. Forgot to check land of birth--next time. Maybe past the point of no return.https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...028dc16da2.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...53cef42f5a.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b70069e6d1.jpg

noglider 05-23-18 03:48 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20356454)
I see plenty of derelict Sports but not many abandoned bikes with rod brakes. This one's along my daily commute; an Avon. Forgot to check land of birth--next time. Maybe past the point of no return.

We have some in the West Village. We have a lot of derelict bikes of all kinds, including plenty of three-speeds. I think there is a rod-braked Flying Pigeon on Greenwich St near me. What section of Brooklyn are you in?

paulb_in_bkln 05-23-18 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20356458)
We have some in the West Village. We have a lot of derelict bikes of all kinds, including plenty of three-speeds. I think there is a rod-braked Flying Pigeon on Greenwich St near me. What section of Brooklyn are you in?

I hang my hat in Prospect Heights but this forlorn specimen is on Chrystie street next to Sara Delano Roosevelt park.

ddeand 05-23-18 07:33 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20356434)
Is this why it was free?

I have a friend who got me into the 3-speed thing last winter, and he keeps dragging stuff home that he finds in various places (he's a shop mechanic). At some point, his wife usually decides (unfairly I might say) that she wants to get her car in the garage. So he looks for suckers like me to take stuff off his hands. But I don't think he had gone far enough into it to even know the hub was frozen. This women's bike will be for my daughter, and it should clean up very nicely. I need to get a few little parts (busted indicator chain, a few bearings, new tires)), but in all, a keeper.

arty dave 05-23-18 07:47 PM

A question to anyone (Sir Mike?) using Philco brakes, what replacement pads are you using and where are you buying them from?
Thanks!

thumpism 05-24-18 06:15 AM

Here you go; no mere English 3-speed but one with a motor, numberplates and a dustbin fairing. Bet those rod brakes are a thrill on this one.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/mcy/...597120177.html
VINTAGE 1951 CYMOTA CYCLEMOTOR 45CC ON RALEIGH MEN'S BIKE - $675 (Williamsburg)

https://images.craigslist.org/00f0f_...I7_600x450.jpg
1951 CYMOTA
condition: fair
engine displacement (CC): 45
fuel: gas
transmission: other
CYMOTA CYCLEMOTER HISTORY: The Cymota was a copy of the VeloSolex 650 (45cc, 0.3 hp) and was made by Cymota Motor Components Ltd at Leamington Road, Erdington, Birmingham, UK, between 1950 and 1952. After WWII, money was scarce, fuel still in short supply and the UK was struggling to get back on its feet. People had to get to work and public transportation could not handle the load. Cars were not cheap but cyclemotors were. Attaching one to a bicycle gave the citizenry freedom of travel and a means to get to their jobs. Hence the surge of CYCLEMOTORS. Many brands and designs popped up throughout England and western Europe. CYMOTA was one. A clever design, the friction drive would power the front wheel up to 20mph and a tank of fuel would last "forever".

The engine was covered by a sheet-metal cowling and a 1.7 litre fuel tank is mounted above the two cycle engine. A Miller magneto ignition is fitted with an Amal 308/12 (12 mm) carburetor. (scroll down)

Blue Star Garages in England appeared as the sole concessionaires, selling it as a clip-on cycle motor, its manufacturer given as Cymo Ltd and it was advertised as "The sensation of the nation". Only about 200 Cymota units were sold. Although a scarce cyclemotor, parts sources are available in the UK. I know where they are......

Enough of this: I offer a 1951 CYMOTA mounted on a period RALEIGH men's 26 inch bike. It needs restoration. Manuals and parts are available in the UK and readily accessible. Cyclemotor clubs in the UK are always willing to offer advice on restorations. This CYMOTA appears to be intact. It even has the exhaust pipe (almost always missing). There is kinship with bicycles and motorcycles. It is a scarce example of motoring history.

The CYMOTA and RALEIGH bike reside in Williamsburg. The price is only $675.

paulb_in_bkln 05-24-18 07:03 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20357301)
Here you go; no mere English 3-speed but one with a motor, numberplates and a dustbin fairing. Bet those rod brakes are a thrill on this one.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/mcy/...597120177.html
VINTAGE 1951 CYMOTA CYCLEMOTOR 45CC ON RALEIGH MEN'S BIKE - $675 (Williamsburg)

Colonial Williamsburg? How old is old?

paulb_in_bkln 05-24-18 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20356791)
I need to get a few little parts (busted indicator chain, a few bearings, new tires)), but in all, a keeper.

Buying those little parts (indicator, fulcrum stop, antirotation washers, etc.) can begin to run into real money.

Edit: "Real money" relative to the overall investment. It's not real money like buying a new Riv.

ddeand 05-24-18 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20357360)
Buying those little parts (indicator, fulcrum stop, antirotation washers, etc.) can begin to run into real money.

Edit: "Real money" relative to the overall investment. It's not real money like buying a new Riv.

Hah! I know what you mean - I checked eBay for a couple parts. Fortunately, my pack-rat buddy has everything I need except for the bottom bracket bearings - those will cost me a few bucks. I’m pretty sure I can get this one done for the cost of the bearings and tires.

thumpism 05-24-18 03:21 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20357358)
Colonial Williamsburg? How old is old?

Williamsburg dates to 1699 but Colonial Williamsburg, as the restored area is known (or CW to its denizens), dates from the 1930s and likely predates that bike and definitely its motor.

SirMike1983 05-24-18 07:20 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20356825)
A question to anyone (Sir Mike?) using Philco brakes, what replacement pads are you using and where are you buying them from?
Thanks!

I modified a set of Kool Stop pads using a set of calipers, a Dremel, and sand paper. I measured the dovetail of the original pads and then bought Kool Stop pads that were a little bigger and sanded down until I got a good fit. I've not seen ready-made replacements being made today. You may have to measure and then make your own set of pads for it. Once you get the dimensions on the first pad, you just make 3 copies of it and you've got your set of pads.

paulb_in_bkln 05-25-18 10:22 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20358359)
Williamsburg dates to 1699 but Colonial Williamsburg, as the restored area is known (or CW to its denizens), dates from the 1930s and likely predates that bike and definitely its motor.

I might have been to CW as a kid but can't remember. I guess I would like to go.

Mickey2 05-26-18 05:45 AM

I looked up the philco brakes, I have never seen one in real life. The type I have seen on old roadsters have been hub brakes or various types of rod brakes, some have brake pads pushing up on the rim, some down on the tyre. The philco brake is new to me.

3 speeds models like Sports and Superbs have a type of light weight aluminium caliper bake, they are just a bit too flexible to be ideal. Have anyone found a sturdier brake that can replace the original? I like to keep parts original, but for an everyday bike it can be a bit difficult in the long run. So far my Raleigh Riviera has original parts, but I need to fix the bottom crank and sort out problems with the pedal arms.

gster 05-26-18 06:24 AM

Here's a clean Superbe for sale in the Toronto area at a reasonable $250.00.
Too bad it's missing the pump.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c6fe21942.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5e2579c6c9.jpg

gster 05-26-18 06:32 AM

Blazing Saddles
A collection
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9c39b5f374.jpg

arty dave 05-26-18 08:09 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20358660)
I modified a set of Kool Stop pads using a set of calipers, a Dremel, and sand paper. I measured the dovetail of the original pads and then bought Kool Stop pads that were a little bigger and sanded down until I got a good fit. I've not seen ready-made replacements being made today. You may have to measure and then make your own set of pads for it. Once you get the dimensions on the first pad, you just make 3 copies of it and you've got your set of pads.

Thanks Sir Mike, I'll give it a go.

gster 05-26-18 09:12 AM

Two of a Kind
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...25827340f4.jpg
On the left, my current favourite, the Glider Bitsa Semi Scorcher. On the right, a 1969 Robin Hood Bitsa Semi Scorcher.
Although these bikes look virtually identical, they are completely different once you get on them.
The Robin Hood is shifting good but I still feel a small wander on the front end. I am warming up to it.
The only possible cause at this point is the tire...
We'll see.
I'll probably use it today for my downtown errands and report back.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6d13e1c9b5.jpg

BigChief 05-26-18 09:25 AM

I think I may have stumbled across the reason so few early 50s handlebar grips survived over the years. I always assumed grips made before the age of vinyl polymers were natural rubber. Looks like I was wrong. Here's a pair of old German made grips from an eBay ad labeled "celluloid" Perhaps the use of celluloid grips was common on 3 speeds from this time. I don't know much about plastics, but I think it's safe to assume this early form of plastic broke down rather quickly and this is why we see so few bikes from this era with original grips today.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1bf9f96b83.jpg

Bicyclz 05-26-18 09:42 AM

I got a French Diamant that had a strange 3 speed derailler, so I installed an SA AM hub in it.
Transformed!!
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7fb32a1fc9.jpg
This machine (especially if you like the curvy mixtes) has lots of lovely details & was overpainted when I got it.
So I experiment with rattle cans to see what transpires. I like the coffee & cream scheme. Needs the BB & seat-tube top lug picking out here to finish IMO.
The chain-guard might do with some details also?

paulb_in_bkln 05-26-18 10:02 AM


Originally Posted by Bicyclz (Post 20361029)
I got a French Diamant that had a strange 3 speed derailler, so I installed an SA AM hub in it.
Transformed!!
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7fb32a1fc9.jpg
This machine (especially if you like the curvy mixtes) has lots of lovely details & was overpainted when I got it.
So I experiment with rattle cans to see what transpires. I like the coffee & cream scheme. Needs the BB & seat-tube top lug picking out here to finish IMO.
The chain-guard might do with some details also?

Very nice. And I read the AM hub is fairly uncommon, too. Was the rack rust free? I have one like it in sad condition off a 70s Peugeot mixte but if I smooth it down I could give it a coat of silver paint. Or now, I think, even a color. Why not?


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