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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

desconhecido 08-20-18 01:56 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20516900)
Noted I'll check the date on the hub and see what I get. I wont be able to look at it untill Friday. 3 speeds dont vanish right away in this area. My green sports for 125 in near mint condition sat for 3 weeks, but if this is a pre 60s model its likley in higher demand for those with the eyes for them. Am I mistaken in thinking the frame is around 21"? That would be too small for me without some modification.
Excuse my lack of knowledge of the nomenclature, but by "pulley" do you mean the round rolly bit? I have one of those in the box of my 4 speed.


Yeah most of the newer Raleigh is useless to me. The bag caught my eye and honestly the fact that I wouldnt like anything but the parts I need could be good in that I'd get it out of my house sooner rather than later.
I fear I'll have trouble letting go of the older black model if I pick it up...

Yes, it looks like 21" and that's too small for you.

I see the pulley in your picture of the 4 speed and parts -- the little wheel on a clamp.. The clamps came for either 25.4 mm or 28.6 mm, I think. Depending on the size, you can mount it either on the rear of the top tube or top of the seat tube and get the cable routing you want

gster 08-20-18 02:52 PM

Here's one.
Said to be a 1945
Seller says there some damage to the back stays
but I may try to get it.
The price is $75.00
They ARE out there!
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...597dda9f53.jpg

Buellster 08-20-18 04:34 PM

I'm thinking of committing a crime....
Today I was chatting with my LBS mechanic about my 4 speed build. I was telling him what the costs I'm still anticipating are and we added it all up. Realizing I'm looking at putting about $250 more into it. He nodded and said "you know it that's how much your stil looking to spend I've got an idea for you."
He went into the back and came up with a shimano alfine 8 700c wheel and shifters. A guy had one built and ended up not using it so they are selling it for him on consignment. He wants 250 for it and the associated cables.
I'm really torn now because as much I want to do this build with a classic hub. It's hard to turn my nose up at a brand new already built up system!
I dont know what to do guys.
Does any one here know much about the Alfine 8 hubs? Cursory internet searches provided good reviews.

clubman 08-20-18 04:48 PM

I'd offer $200 just because it's not what you wanted. It gets you on the road with a good hub.
maybe $175.

Buellster 08-20-18 05:46 PM

He isn't the bargaining type haha
New hub alfine 8 is 200 with no wheel. He would build a wheel for 50 labor, 35-40 for rim and 1.25 per spokes so at 36 spokes I'm looking at around 300 if I bought the hub and had them build it.
The hub and wheel have never been used so they are essentially new.
I think the price is fair and besides, if I tried to bargin hed laugh at me.

BigChief 08-20-18 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20517541)
Here's one.
Said to be a 1945
Seller says there some damage to the back stays
but I may try to get it.
The price is $75.00
They ARE out there!
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...597dda9f53.jpg

If you had asked me what I thought of painting a DL-1 bright yellow I would have said NOOO! Big roadsters are supposed to be stately . Something to be ridden in a bowler hat and waistcoat. But what can I say, this is cool in a funky sort of way. The color really makes the ancient geometry of the frame stand out. Funny how things worked out for me. I never thought I would like riding these big heavy roadsters, but now I can't imaging not having one. 1945, 1975, hardly matters with these does it.

DQRider 08-21-18 07:08 AM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20517709)
I'm thinking of committing a crime....
Today I was chatting with my LBS mechanic about my 4 speed build. I was telling him what the costs I'm still anticipating are and we added it all up. Realizing I'm looking at putting about $250 more into it. He nodded and said "you know it that's how much your stil looking to spend I've got an idea for you."
He went into the back and came up with a shimano alfine 8 700c wheel and shifters. A guy had one built and ended up not using it so they are selling it for him on consignment. He wants 250 for it and the associated cables.
I'm really torn now because as much I want to do this build with a classic hub. It's hard to turn my nose up at a brand new already built up system!
I dont know what to do guys.
Does any one here know much about the Alfine 8 hubs? Cursory internet searches provided good reviews.

I've had both the Nexus and Alfine 8s, and they both worked really well for me. The Alfine feels smoother and more refined, which it is.

But it all depends on what you want to do with this bike, and where. If you live in hilly country the 8-speed makes sense. You will have to cold-set the rear triangle of course. Then another thing to consider is whether you want to participate in any events organized around the classic 3-speeds. They may frown on your "improvement" of the breed. Going from 26 x 1 3/8 (650 A) to 700c means finding 16mm of adjustment in your rim brakes, or you may have to replace the calipers with something shorter. Frame/fork clearance might be an issue as well. It's always easier to go smaller on rim size than larger.

But if you are worried about reliability, that Alfine 8 won't let you down as long as you keep it lubricated and adjusted properly.

.

Buellster 08-21-18 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20518619)
I've had both the Nexus and Alfine 8s, and they both worked really well for me. The Alfine feels smoother and more refined, which it is.

But it all depends on what you want to do with this bike, and where. If you live in hilly country the 8-speed makes sense. You will have to cold-set the rear triangle of course. Then another thing to consider is whether you want to participate in any events organized around the classic 3-speeds. They may frown on your "improvement" of the breed. Going from 26 x 1 3/8 (650 A) to 700c means finding 16mm of adjustment in your rim brakes, or you may have to replace the calipers with something shorter. Frame/fork clearance might be an issue as well. It's always easier to go smaller on rim size than larger.

But if you are worried about reliability, that Alfine 8 won't let you down as long as you keep it lubricated and adjusted properly.

.

It's not San Francisco by any means but we have some hills that gear one on my 3 spd sports just does not do.
As far as clearance and cold press those actually are not concerns. It's not the sports I'm converting but rather my Harding. It has 700cs on it currently from a previous Franken bike conversion. And it was already cold set 130mm for said Franken build.
Bigchief had mentioned, and I've since read on another C&V blog that the AW hubs are the same size as the FWs. I'm thinking of going forward with the Alfine on my Harding. Then once I do get ahold of a 4 speed trigger I could just convert my sports to a 4 by plugging the FW internals into the AWs housing.
I have not done any 3 speed events but if I do make it out to one I'll have my classic 70 sports to take.
I dont know of any in the portland area, anyone here have any suggestions?

Your review of the Alfine matches up with what I've read on them, reliable and smooth. What teeth #s did you have front to back for cog to chain ring?
I have read that the lowest gear is still a bit rough on hills, was that your experience?

BigChief 08-21-18 10:01 AM

I think the Alfine would be a great choice and make for an elegant roadster. Found a good deal online for Bluemels. Thought I'd pass it along.
Bluemel mudguard set

ddeand 08-21-18 03:01 PM

Here's an update on the DL-1 Tourist I picked up this weekend. For me, this was a bit of a lark since I don't know squat about these bikes, but the deal seemed to be pretty decent, so I succumbed to the Koolaid (you guys aren't helping in that area). I finally got a chance to look it over a little, and my first thought was "What have I gotten myself into?"

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4ea726c15b.jpg

My first stop was wiping the grime off the rear hub to see what year it is - looks like an AW hub from 1968. Then, I spent some time removing the rear baskets - they will probably not go back on the bike. That's when I became acquainted with the unique seat stay setup - apparently, you just don't remove a couple bolts and nuts to get the baskets off, you almost need to disassemble the rear triangle! The bike is covered with quite a bit of grease, oil, and grime, and the chrome parts are mostly suffering from various degrees of corrosion and pitting. The fenders will need to be shaped and caressed a bit and will likely need a bit of touch-up paint - we'll see how far I want to go there. I'll use a light rubbing compound on the paint, followed by machine polish and wax - that should get the frame looking decent. For the chrome, I generally use aluminum foil with chain oil, and that seems to do the trick. Here's a picture of a small section of the brake bar that I cleaned up next to an uncleaned section. It should look pretty good when I'm done, but dang, there's a lot of chrome rods!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b84ca4f9b.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5aa93849c2.jpg

I really am looking forward to working on this beast and am somewhat fearful of doing too much disassembly - if I took the brake system apart, I don't know if I could get it back together again. The brakes were set up pretty nicely, and most of the work will be cosmetic, greasing, and adjusting. Depending on which of the Raleighs my daughter wants to keep (I built up a nice ladies Sports for her), we'll sell the other. I do want to thank those of you who chimed in on my earlier thread as I was trying to decide whether to get the DL-1 or not. Now that I have it, I'm glad to have the chance to learn more about these odd bikes. More questions to come,I'm sure!

gster 08-21-18 04:04 PM

As long as the rod and lever brake system is complete you should be ok.
Some of those little pieces are hard to come by.
New brake pads are a bit of a challenge but I think Big Chief has a solution to fit
new rubber in the original holders.
As stated before, hang on to every nut/bolt/ washer etc as these are
all proprietory. You can't pop down to the hardware store for a
new axle nut.
Please post pictures as you make progress.

Buellster 08-21-18 06:00 PM

That is a beautiful bike! From the pictures it doesnt seem to need much, looks like a lot to most of the original hardware is intact. How does it ride?
does it ride? Haha

ddeand 08-21-18 07:55 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20519883)
That is a beautiful bike! From the pictures it doesnt seem to need much, looks like a lot to most of the original hardware is intact. How does it ride?
does it ride? Haha

Hah! I havenít ridden it yet. Fenders were rubbing and the rear tire wasnít seated on the rim accurately. I sat on it and it felt like I was on a chopper motorcycle. That front fork is really out there!

BigChief 08-22-18 03:50 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20520069)


Hah! I havenít ridden it yet. Fenders were rubbing and the rear tire wasnít seated on the rim accurately. I sat on it and it felt like I was on a chopper motorcycle. That front fork is really out there!

That's one of the reasons I have so much fun riding these. It is so different than my other bikes. A sports may take you back to the 1930s, but a DL-1 takes you back to 1910. One thing is "modernized" though. By this time, Raleigh redesigned the brakes so the stirrup that holds the pads also acts as a return spring. It's very effective, but it makes aligning the pads on the rim a bit trickier because the pads move in as they move up. You adjust the sideways alignment by moving those guide clips mounted on the fork legs and chain stays. Up and down are adjusted from the linkage rods. For some reason I'll never understand, Raleigh used a 16T cog on these bikes. That's way too tall for me. Changing that to a 22T was a must for me. That and getting the brakes to work. The brake adjustment was way out of wack on mine. Got it sorted though. Now I really enjoy riding it.

ddeand 08-22-18 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20520430)
That's one of the reasons I have so much fun riding these. It is so different than my other bikes. A sports may take you back to the 1930s, but a DL-1 takes you back to 1910. One thing is "modernized" though. By this time, Raleigh redesigned the brakes so the stirrup that holds the pads also acts as a return spring. It's very effective, but it makes aligning the pads on the rim a bit trickier because the pads move in as they move up. You adjust the sideways alignment by moving those guide clips mounted on the fork legs and chain stays. Up and down are adjusted from the linkage rods. For some reason I'll never understand, Raleigh used a 16T cog on these bikes. That's way too tall for me. Changing that to a 22T was a must for me. That and getting the brakes to work. The brake adjustment was way out of wack on mine. Got it sorted though. Now I really enjoy riding it.

Thanks for the explanation of the way the brakes work - it makes a huge difference knowing how they should function. The brakes on this bike seemed to work pretty well, but I will need to get new pads. The rear cog on mine is 17T, but I haven't checked to see what the front ring is. My other Sports' had 48T and the ladies Sports had 46T.

I'm trying to clean things up without removing too much stuff - especially the brakes. So far, it looks pretty decent for a 50 year-old bike. A few paint chips, fender and chainguard dents, and lots of muck. Because this type of bike is new to me, I decided to do thre rear half of the bike first - I'll try to get everything cleaned and tuned and back together before I tackle the front (that's where I'll have to spend time on the chrome corrosion). I haven't taken time yet to determine if I need to take the rear hub apart - I'm hoping it just needs some oil, but I doubt I'll be so lucky. Here's a shot of the rear drive side axle - just to show how dirty it is. I'm going through a ton of paper towels and rags!

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b58a161605.jpg

clubman 08-22-18 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20521259)
I haven't taken time yet to determine if I need to take the rear hub apart - I'm hoping it just needs some oil, but I doubt I'll be so lucky.

The odds are good you will be lucky, AW's have a great track record. Just put 4 or 5 drops of straight machine oil in there and start riding it. No vegetable based oils (3-in-1 eg). I use 20 or 30 weight.

BigChief 08-22-18 03:04 PM

I agree, AW hubs are pretty bomb proof and a small amount of oil should be all you need for now if it is working smoothly. There is one thing I think you should do before making an assessment of this bike. Even if you do have a 46T chainring, a 17T cog will still make for very tall gearing with those big 28" wheels. Changing up to a 22T cog made all the difference in the world for me. It opened up enjoyable riding on this bike. It's not just me. Pretty much every other DL-1 rider I see on this forum has one of those chrome 22T cogs on their bike. Sometimes even a 24T. While you have the rear wheel apart, I strongly suggest you swap out the cog and give her a new chain. In fact, the KMC 1/8" chain comes in a 112 link length which fits a 46Tx22T DL-1 perfectly with no need to remove links. Once you get these big roadsters easier to pedal, you'll find that the ride is very smooth and comfortable even over poor surfaces. Especially with a sprung saddle like a Brooks B66. They may be an acquired taste and not for everybody, but I love them.

BigChief 08-22-18 05:48 PM

I was having trouble finding a saddlebag for the Rudge. The hot days this summer convinced me that I wanted a bag large enough to carry a small water bottle along with my tools. I didn't need a large touring bag since my daily rides are seldom more than 10 miles. I don't need a bottle cage. A good excuse to sit under a shady tree is more my style. Somebody here suggested etsy and sure enough, that's what came through for me. The olive colored canvas is soft enough to conform to the shape of the saddle springs and still strap onto the seat post so it won't flop around. Perfect and has a the right look to for the old Rudge. So thanks for pointing me to etsy. This is a great crew here.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...35b1d5b5ee.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...074bf2d040.jpg

agmetal 08-22-18 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20521666)
I agree, AW hubs are pretty bomb proof and a small amount of oil should be all you need for now if it is working smoothly. There is one thing I think you should do before making an assessment of this bike. Even if you do have a 46T chainring, a 17T cog will still make for very tall gearing with those big 28" wheels. Changing up to a 22T cog made all the difference in the world for me. It opened up enjoyable riding on this bike. It's not just me. Pretty much every other DL-1 rider I see on this forum has one of those chrome 22T cogs on their bike. Sometimes even a 24T. While you have the rear wheel apart, I strongly suggest you swap out the cog and give her a new chain. In fact, the KMC 1/8" chain comes in a 112 link length which fits a 46Tx22T DL-1 perfectly with no need to remove links. Once you get these big roadsters easier to pedal, you'll find that the ride is very smooth and comfortable even over poor surfaces. Especially with a sprung saddle like a Brooks B66. They may be an acquired taste and not for everybody, but I love them.

I have the stock gearing on my '37 Tourist, which, if I remember right, is 44x18. It's inside a full chaincase, though so I don't really feel like checking right at the moment.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...357a92af7c.jpg
Someone else also mentioned the clip-on brake pad guides. My bike pre-dates those, and the return spring setup is a bit different
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...256fdc5c56.jpg

ddeand 08-22-18 09:10 PM

Thanks for the advice on the gearing. I'll try to order a 22t cog (unless my buddy has one laying around). I'm also a little bummed that I can't find brake blocks other that Kool Stop in the USA, but I may have no choice but to bite the bullet and get the pads. 'Tomorrow, I'll visit my 3-speed buddy and borrow a couple of his special crankset tools. I figure if I'm cleaning things up, I might as well do bearings, too. Any suggestions on tackling the headset bearings?

BigChief 08-23-18 05:50 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20522285)
Thanks for the advice on the gearing. I'll try to order a 22t cog (unless my buddy has one laying around). I'm also a little bummed that I can't find brake blocks other that Kool Stop in the USA, but I may have no choice but to bite the bullet and get the pads. 'Tomorrow, I'll visit my 3-speed buddy and borrow a couple of his special crankset tools. I figure if I'm cleaning things up, I might as well do bearings, too. Any suggestions on tackling the headset bearings?

Only that I always manage to loose a few no matter how I try not to, so it's good to have some 5/32" spares. You need 25 for each race. I always use fresh grade 25 1/4" bearings for the bottom bracket. You need 11 for each race there.
Front wheel bearings are 3/16" can't remember how many. Don't forget...these front hubs don't have locknuts so the adjustable cone needs to always be on the left side.

gster 08-23-18 06:33 AM

Save a Saddle
A bike guy down the street gave me this old Brooks saddle yesterday.
I took it for the clamp and seat post attached.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...21e52e2581.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...64029a21b7.jpg
I thought I'd try to revive the saddle so I soaked it in hot water for 10 minutes.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a0254ee5f.jpg
I took it out and liberally applied a coat of mink oil and then using
some elastic bands and clamps tried to re-shape it.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dc71d40a75.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...556643d010.jpg
We'll see how it looks after a couple of days....

Bicyclz 08-23-18 07:58 AM

@ddeand. If you need brake pads I may have the vintage type you need..
Do you know what type they are? (Numbers on the pads?)

I've got a small box of various types (Mainly 1950s, rod & calliper types just sitting here.
I put 'em on Ebay as a job lot & no real interest. (£20 & no offers....Sad, I thought)

So, if I got what you need you can have them gratis, just pay shipping from UK.
I'll get them out & make a list of the types & post them in this thread anon.

This 3 speed thread is just amazing & I may be able to help certain people. Cool?

A crude handwritten note here & some, possibly most of them, pictured here actually. (Don't have the time to check right now. Grandchildren here requiring a lot of attention: ))

Anybody on this thread wants to deal with them together I'm cool with that.
All I ask is 'no reselling' for profit. Just distribute Stateside for shipping only.
Honour.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...13bb041366.jpghttps://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cbb4acf5c5.jpg

I got 20/25 pairs of different types, some hard to find.

gster 08-24-18 06:36 AM

Saddle Up! Date
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2ba8b5c638.jpg

The old Brooks saddle has regained some of it's shape.
I used an awl to puncture the sides and then added some laces.
The leather is still dry and cracked so I doubt that I will actually
put this on a bike.
It was more of an exercise.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8ea13eac98.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...703a81849f.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cef6c67575.jpg

Buellster 08-24-18 07:55 AM

I was very interested to see if this would work.
I spot saddles in this condition on bikes here and there.
I think I may keep passing on them


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