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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

littlevikingca 11-08-19 03:22 PM

My Three Speeds...
 
Well, I've got the mandatory number of posts in so.-here are the three speeds in my life:
:https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a88b7cee3.jpg
1973 Raleigh Colt
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b00370367.jpg

Mid-'50's Humber, repainted at some time in the past, with Raleigh replacement crankset, to be replaced with correct Humber "maypole dancers" chainwheel. The chrome is excellent on this bike. This one obviously has drum brakes and "Canadian" 28" wheels (700C), with the rear hub being a 36 spoke unit so I'm not sure whether they were replaced at some time. Ugly blue duffle bag has been replaced with a Carradice bag and the bike has been in continuous use this Autumn


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c5ca52e390.jpg

1953 Rudge Pathfinder - this one was well-loved by the previous/original owner, to the extent of painting the headlight and some of the Sturmey Archer bits with silver paint - using acetone removed the silver paint and restored the headlight to it's original worn state. The fenders looked as though they had been painted with white house paint using a broom. With some rust, they warranted being refinished and have been stripped to bare metal. The balance of the finish is the original, gently cleaned, polished and waxed. I have a new seat on the way -the original is pretty frail and ripping at the rivets. Although it is heavy by modern standards (and even by 1953 "lightweight" standards, it is a greyhound compared to the Humber. Dynohub still works and the chrome is of a very high standard.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a666de935.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dd19e46059.jpg


Cheers!

Dave K

HPL 11-08-19 04:06 PM

Raleigh "sprite" ? '76-'77?
 
10 Attachment(s)
Picked up to keep from the crusher, another Raleigh of unknown model/year; possibly a "Sprite", year unknown, but assuming mid '70s since I purchased from original owner who stated buying around 1974 ("OR SO"). I believe I saw a "similar" catalogue example for 1977 "Sprite" stating paint scheme option of green w/black. Not being familiar with the components; anything goes. Although set up with double chainwheel, it is operating as a 5 speed since there is no front derailleur mounted. Front brakes are missing, front gears shifter missing. Pedals are great both in function and details/lack of wear; Raleigh blocks and dust caps, but made in Germany (Union?). Original "Dare" grips, Atom hubs, Sturmey-Archer rims, rear brakes. Date code on front hub "21 76", rear hub "20 76". Assume bike to be a '76-'77 regardless of owner's recollections. I didn't get the story as to the missing parts. Odd part to me is the Gerry Burgess alloy stem, was this stock for that time period? Shimano indexing 5 speed thumb shifter (SL-TY37) is used with Huret "Allvit" RD; but what is original? I have a "Sprite" that uses Sun Tour stem shifters with RD, and Huret FD (OE parts?). Would like to bring back original shifting. Clean up, adjust, gift, or sell to cover costs ($40 or so). Keeping saddle, pedals, and stem for other projects. I have donor brakeset w/self-adjusting levers, B.72 saddle, various friction levers (stem or DT mount), and clamp-on FD's to complete this ride. Functionally perfect except missing parts, which apparently have been removed for a long time (nary a sign of an FD clamp). Dark green paint is apparent on rear of fenders, stays, and upper down tube where "GOWANDA" ("pop" reference) decal letters are placed; added (?).

HPL 11-08-19 04:35 PM

Raleigh "sprite" ?
 
3 Attachment(s)
Not a 3 speed, but seems nearly identical to my '75 Sports; less hubs and fenders. More photos of the previous post.

sykerocker 11-08-19 06:24 PM

That GB stem looks period correct, although I was always used to seeing those on Gran Prix's. My '73 Sprite 10 had a chrome steel stem that was very angular in design and absolutely straight on the top edge. Unfortunately, this bike is after my time at the bike shop, but I remember Huret equipped Sprites having Huret stem shifters. Definitely wouldn't have a Shimano bit on a Huret drivetrain.

gster 11-08-19 08:31 PM


Originally Posted by littlevikingca (Post 21200698)
Well, I've got the mandatory number of posts in so.-here are the three speeds in my life:
:https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a88b7cee3.jpg
1973 Raleigh Colt
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b00370367.jpg

Mid-'50's Humber, repainted at some time in the past, with Raleigh replacement crankset, to be replaced with correct Humber "maypole dancers" chainwheel. The chrome is excellent on this bike. This one obviously has drum brakes and "Canadian" 28" wheels (700C), with the rear hub being a 36 spoke unit so I'm not sure whether they were replaced at some time. Ugly blue duffle bag has been replaced with a Carradice bag and the bike has been in continuous use this Autumn


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c5ca52e390.jpg

1953 Rudge Pathfinder - this one was well-loved by the previous/original owner, to the extent of painting the headlight and some of the Sturmey Archer bits with silver paint - using acetone removed the silver paint and restored the headlight to it's original worn state. The fenders looked as though they had been painted with white house paint using a broom. With some rust, they warranted being refinished and have been stripped to bare metal. The balance of the finish is the original, gently cleaned, polished and waxed. I have a new seat on the way -the original is pretty frail and ripping at the rivets. Although it is heavy by modern standards (and even by 1953 "lightweight" standards, it is a greyhound compared to the Humber. Dynohub still works and the chrome is of a very high standard.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a666de935.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dd19e46059.jpg


Cheers!

Dave K

A very nice collection.
Just the three?
I'm sure you've got room for a
few more...

gster 11-08-19 08:37 PM


Originally Posted by HPL (Post 21200766)
Picked up to keep from the crusher, another Raleigh of unknown model/year; possibly a "Sprite", year unknown, but assuming mid '70s since I purchased from original owner who stated buying around 1974 ("OR SO"). I believe I saw a "similar" catalogue example for 1977 "Sprite" stating paint scheme option of green w/black. Not being familiar with the components; anything goes. Although set up with double chainwheel, it is operating as a 5 speed since there is no front derailleur mounted. Front brakes are missing, front gears shifter missing. Pedals are great both in function and details/lack of wear; Raleigh blocks and dust caps, but made in Germany (Union?). Original "Dare" grips, Atom hubs, Sturmey-Archer rims, rear brakes. Date code on front hub "21 76", rear hub "20 76". Assume bike to be a '76-'77 regardless of owner's recollections. I didn't get the story as to the missing parts. Odd part to me is the Gerry Burgess alloy stem, was this stock for that time period? Shimano indexing 5 speed thumb shifter (SL-TY37) is used with Huret "Allvit" RD; but what is original? I have a "Sprite" that uses Sun Tour stem shifters with RD, and Huret FD (OE parts?). Would like to bring back original shifting. Clean up, adjust, gift, or sell to cover costs ($40 or so). Keeping saddle, pedals, and stem for other projects. I have donor brakeset w/self-adjusting levers, B.72 saddle, various friction levers (stem or DT mount), and clamp-on FD's to complete this ride. Functionally perfect except missing parts, which apparently have been removed for a long time (nary a sign of an FD clamp). Dark green paint is apparent on rear of fenders, stays, and upper down tube where "GOWANDA" ("pop" reference) decal letters are placed; added (?).

Agreed.
The GB stem is worth $40.00 on it's own

clubman 11-08-19 08:47 PM


Originally Posted by littlevikingca (Post 21200698)
Well, I've got the mandatory number of posts in so...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dd19e46059.jpg
Cheers!

Dave K

The Rudge fork crown wins the day every time. Nice collection.

littlevikingca 11-08-19 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21201042)
A very nice collection.
Just the three?
I'm sure you've got room for a
few more...

I do have a '51 lady's Lenton Sport underway (early stages) but I'm not sure whether that will be 3 or 4 speed. And a "basket case" Phillip's Phantom from another forum member (with a 4 speed FC) for which I've been accumulating parts -definitely English, but not necessarily 3-speeds.

littlevikingca 11-08-19 09:03 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21201057)
The Rudge fork crown wins the day every time. Nice collection.

Thanks Clubman !

I really like the Rudge. I had to roll out some centre stand chain stay tube damage -they are somewhat better but nowhere near perfect -an unusual sectional modulus and possibly stress risers remain but I'm thinking that the stress levels remain within the elastic range. I'll watch for any issues and may explore having them replaced- it would have to be a decision based on the love of the bike rather than the value. It would likely open up a "can of worms" with the bottom bracket- I'd want a frame builder 's opinion.

Cheers,

Dave

BigChief 11-09-19 06:01 AM


Originally Posted by littlevikingca (Post 21201078)
Thanks Clubman !

I really like the Rudge. I had to roll out some centre stand chain stay tube damage -they are somewhat better but nowhere near perfect -an unusual sectional modulus and possibly stress risers remain but I'm thinking that the stress levels remain within the elastic range. I'll watch for any issues and may explore having them replaced- it would have to be a decision based on the love of the bike rather than the value. It would likely open up a "can of worms" with the bottom bracket- I'd want a frame builder 's opinion.

Cheers,

Dave

Pathfinders and Clubmans have always been the grail bikes I never found. Pretty much every roadster I've ever owned had chainstay damage from bolt on kickstands. True, the roadsters are Raleigh 20-30 not 531, but I've never had any kind of problem with them. I'd say it's only a cosmetic issue. You mentioned rust on the mudguards. I'm almost positive Pathfinders always had celluloid mudguards, but you never know with Raleigh. I think a bike this nice would be worth an expensive pair of Bluemels. Great bike!

gster 11-09-19 07:02 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21201295)
Pathfinders and Clubmans have always been the grail bikes I never found. Pretty much every roadster I've ever owned had chainstay damage from bolt on kickstands. True, the roadsters are Raleigh 20-30 not 531, but I've never had any kind of problem with them. I'd say it's only a cosmetic issue. You mentioned rust on the mudguards. I'm almost positive Pathfinders always had celluloid mudguards, but you never know with Raleigh. I think a bike this nice would be worth an expensive pair of Bluemels. Great bike!

Does that mean that this Rudge Pathfinder has the EA1 rims?
I've developed a fondness for these Club Bikes as well.
There's something special that I can't define....
The geometry? The tubing?
They appear to be smaller, more precise
versions of their standard cousins.
I appreciate the silence of my fenderless Semi-Scorchers
but now that the weather's changed, my workhorse
Superbe has become my go to bike.
Here's a 1958 Superbe, for sale here in Toronto
for $200.00
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...03885dfbaa.png
I'm not sure whether it's missing the Dynohub or if it was an option.

gster 11-09-19 07:09 AM

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c51b42ae14.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e0905aff06.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f7f675c2e8.jpg

littlevikingca 11-09-19 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21201295)
Pathfinders and Clubmans have always been the grail bikes I never found. Pretty much every roadster I've ever owned had chainstay damage from bolt on kickstands. True, the roadsters are Raleigh 20-30 not 531, but I've never had any kind of problem with them. I'd say it's only a cosmetic issue. You mentioned rust on the mudguards. I'm almost positive Pathfinders always had celluloid mudguards, but you never know with Raleigh. I think a bike this nice would be worth an expensive pair of Bluemels. Great bike!

Hi Big Chief,

Thanks for your comments on the chainstay damage -I'm thinking that I'll just monitor it before taking any expensive action. I believe that this generation of the Lenton family has hi-tensile chain and seat stays (only the main tubes are 531) so your experience is reassuring.

I agree re: the mudguards -the ones I've seen in the old adverts were all celluloid. I suspect that the steel ones I have are for "export". They have the spearpoint (similar to the roadster fenders) but with separate chromed stays (fixed to the fender with clamp bolts like the Bluemels). They were a creamy white colour. I suspect that Raleigh felt that the Canadian market expected steel (like the domestic competition CCMs).
Cheers,
Dave

I will refinish the steel mudguards to have the option of "keeping it original" . I have a later set of NOS Bluemel Populars in white that I could use to "keep it light (er)" and that would probably be a change an original owner might have made.

paulb_in_bkln 11-09-19 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by HPL (Post 21200766)
Shimano indexing 5 speed thumb shifter (SL-TY37) is used with Huret "Allvit" RD; but what is original?

Did the Huret come with red pulleys? I wonder if those are a good quality aftermarket piece.

littlevikingca 11-09-19 09:20 AM

Hi gster,

Thanks for all of the information!

Yes, it has EA-1 rims. I have started to collect a few of these wheels and I have a number of NOS early Weinmann rims for "new" wheels, plus a small number of the Schwalbe 26x 1-1/4 tires. So far the steel rims have cleaned-up well and the sidewall dents don't materially effect the braking, so for the Rudge I'm leaving it original.

For my wife's Lenton, I may go with the 590 CR-18 wheels and a 26x1-3/8 tire. There is a precedent for these types of substitutions: I have a stash of 1920's to late '40's Cycling and Cyclist magazines. The 26x1-1/4 tire was THE sports option from the mid-'20's until the late '30's, The major manufacturers lightweight Club/racing versions were all 26x1-1/4 with lightweight roadsters using 26x1-3/8. Interestingly, lightweight touring bicycles from the "boutique" builders (Claud Butler, Evans, Grubb) tended to offer a choice of 26x1-1/4 or 26x1-3/8 depending on the client's preference.

That '58 Raleigh Superbe is pretty interesting. Looking closely at the rear wheel, it looks as though the dynohub is combined in the rear hub a Sturmey Archer AG if it is a 3 speed, FG if 4.

Cheers,

Dave

Johno59 11-09-19 10:10 AM

Less is more
 

Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21201057)
The Rudge fork crown wins the day every time. Nice collection.

Goodness me, that Rudge Path Racer is a fine looking bicycle. Thanks for sharing!

EddyR 11-09-19 11:11 AM

posted to wrong thread
eddyr

gster 11-10-19 05:12 AM

1959 Italian Legnano, fitted with a SA 3 speed hub.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...33eac39aa2.jpg

BigChief 11-10-19 05:24 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21201333)
Does that mean that this Rudge Pathfinder has the EA1 rims?
I've developed a fondness for these Club Bikes as well.
There's something special that I can't define....
The geometry? The tubing?
They appear to be smaller, more precise
versions of their standard cousins.
I appreciate the silence of my fenderless Semi-Scorchers
but now that the weather's changed, my workhorse
Superbe has become my go to bike.
Here's a 1958 Superbe, for sale here in Toronto
for $200.00
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...03885dfbaa.png
I'm not sure whether it's missing the Dynohub or if it was an option.

Our scorchers and semi scorchers really are a good alternative to a genuine club bike. The one I made from a 55 Rudge junker turned out to feel very sporty and a blast to ride. The alloy rims and Tektro brakes made a big difference in the overall feel of the bike. I've found that modern lightweight saddles with a channel down the center are much more comfortable for me that the solid type. Not B66 comfy, but it's a scorcher. I'm beginning to think I prefer the 21" frame with a long stem over the 23" for scorcherizing. I'm planning on another scorcher build for that neat NOS S5 hub I have. Now, I have a 23" mid 70s Sports I got on the cheap but I just don't like it as much as the short frame Rudge. I think I might hold out for the perfect frameset to come along. Something messed up enough that I don't mind refinishing, post 1953 so it has the harder tubing and 21".

gster 11-10-19 05:56 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21202425)
Our scorchers and semi scorchers really are a good alternative to a genuine club bike. The one I made from a 55 Rudge junker turned out to feel very sporty and a blast to ride. The alloy rims and Tektro brakes made a big difference in the overall feel of the bike. I've found that modern lightweight saddles with a channel down the center are much more comfortable for me that the solid type. Not B66 comfy, but it's a scorcher. I'm beginning to think I prefer the 21" frame with a long stem over the 23" for scorcherizing. I'm planning on another scorcher build for that neat NOS S5 hub I have. Now, I have a 23" mid 70s Sports I got on the cheap but I just don't like it as much as the short frame Rudge. I think I might hold out for the perfect frameset to come along. Something messed up enough that I don't mind refinishing, post 1953 so it has the harder tubing and 21".

I really like the "silence" of the Scorchers when riding.
Quiet except the soothing ticking of the hub.
I prefer a larger frame but have had several 21" bikes (raised seat and bars)
that were quite nimble and comfortable.
I still have a 21" 53 BSA Scorcher that should get some more road time.
Sounds like you're looking for a winter project.
That Windsor frame I bought has a somewhat stuck seat post and
I'll have to cut the spindle to get the BB apart....
It may stay that way.

paulb_in_bkln 11-10-19 07:20 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21202425)
Our scorchers and semi scorchers really are a good alternative to a genuine club bike.

A genuine early club bike being one with a frame from 531, straight or DB? I slightly miss the different feel of the lighter tube set. OTOH, one of the contributors to Sheldon's website claims that for a touring bike he likes an old U08. The steel there is very similar to what's on the Raleigh Sports, and it being thicker resists dents more than 531. (Like on my old Trek. Ask me how I know.) But I think for longer and brisk recreational rides typical of club riding, as opposed to the utility riding that is most of what I do now, I like your 5 speed plan. The AW's big jump from gear 2 to 3 can be frustrating when I have the legs to keep up a faster pace but have spun out in 2 and 3 turns over slower than I've become used to after years of riding derailleur machines. Probably I would never think about it if I didn't have that modern experience. I'm envying ged117's FW hub. If a 36 hole version of one of those ever hits me over the head, either alloy or steel, I would probably go for it. Come to think, I don't even know if there is a 36 version of the FW.

paulb_in_bkln 11-10-19 07:23 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21202418)
1959 Italian Legnano, fitted with a SA 3 speed hub.

Classy. Where did you see that?

paulb_in_bkln 11-10-19 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21201333)
Does that mean that this Rudge Pathfinder has the EA1 rims?
I've developed a fondness for these Club Bikes as well.
There's something special that I can't define....
The geometry? The tubing?
They appear to be smaller, more precise
versions of their standard cousins.
I appreciate the silence of my fenderless Semi-Scorchers
but now that the weather's changed, my workhorse
Superbe has become my go to bike.
Here's a 1958 Superbe, for sale here in Toronto
for $200.00
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...03885dfbaa.png
I'm not sure whether it's missing the Dynohub or if it was an option.

That seat and forward position! I can't look. But I can't look away, either.

HPL 11-10-19 10:40 AM

Huret Pulleys
 
1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21201452)
Did the Huret come with red pulleys? I wonder if those are a good quality aftermarket piece.

Not sure as to the originality of those pulleys. I have no reference other than the Sprite I have, and that has a Sun Tour RD. That being said, I have seen in catalogue images of Sprites with red pulleys (unknown if sealed or sleeve bearings) from 1972-78, I believe all used Huret derailleurs, so they did have red pulleys as OE for a few years. I've used an aftermarket set as replacement for Campy pulleys, Bullseye w/sealed bearings, which have performed without any issues for 30 years (with proper maintenance), probably better ones out there now (not counting ceramic); but I've seen cheap sealed bearing pulleys on the market for less than $8 a pair, alloy and "drilled" of Chinese build, quality unknown. I'll find out during tear down if the pulleys are original Huret or not.

gster 11-11-19 12:44 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21202511)
Classy. Where did you see that?

That's for sale in Ottawa on Kijiji at $750.00...


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