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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

cudak888 02-20-21 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by Brian44t (Post 21933099)
I had a set of those about 8 years ago but I sold them with my Raleigh Sprite 5 speed. My current project has the aluminum rims laced on that I bought way back then. Is there a current source for the calipers?

The one in the picture is a Tektro R559, but keep in mind that if you have a 1974+ Sports with top tube cable braze-ons, the cable entrance will be on the wrong side.

I prefer to use the slightly-lesser-finished Tektro 800A's or an 800A in front with a 900A in the back, only as the cable entrance is inverted to the R559 - and matches the braze-ons. Of course, the rack had to get in the way, but I can only ask for so many miracles :lol:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a20b45bf21.jpg


Availability is always a bit spotty. Google the model you want and get it from the cheapest and most reliable source. I went doubly-difficult on mine and did the bike above with black ones - factory black too, not painted. Only the rear 900A was easily obtainable; the front had to be an Arai-badged 800A from Japan. Still was able to find them though.

-Kurt

adventurepdx 02-21-21 01:20 AM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 21932531)
CR18's look fine, but they don't look original nor English.
I grew up with Black, All steel English bikes, with black tires.
Frankly, I don't see why they ever made 'gumwall' tires, they don't age well and they're twice as hard to keep clean, especially on a bike with an oily SA rear hub.
...I guess I'm kind of old school and feel it can be any color you wish, so long as its black.

I'm a pragmatist. I go with what works vs. period correct or original. I love many aspects of old British bikes, what I don't like is steel rims. I use this Raleigh Superbe as a daily driver, and I want the benefits that go with aluminum rims--lighter, and much better stopping power in wet, especially when paired with newer brakes. And it gets wet here in Portland.

It's also a matter of aesthetics. I like black British bikes too (and own one), but I also love the green of my Superbe. I also like how gumwalls look (and there were gum and white walls back in the day, it's not a new thing.) True, they can get dirty, but they don't seem to get as dirty as I think they would.

And remember, you're not going to notice if rims are "British or Original" from a distance, unless you are a bike nerd on the internet trying to magnify that tiny jpg! :D

adventurepdx 02-21-21 01:24 AM


Originally Posted by Brian44t (Post 21933099)
I had a set of those about 8 years ago but I sold them with my Raleigh Sprite 5 speed. My current project has the aluminum rims laced on that I bought way back then. Is there a current source for the calipers?


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21933124)
They look like Tektro 900 long reach nutted calipers. Amazon should have them if your lbs doesn't.


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 21933594)
The one in the picture is a Tektro R559, but keep in mind that if you have a 1974+ Sports with top tube cable braze-ons, the cable entrance will be on the wrong side. I prefer to use the slightly-lesser-finished Tektro 800A's or an 800A in front with a 900A in the back, only as the cable entrance is inverted to the R559 - and matches the braze-ons. Of course, the rack had to get in the way, but I can only ask for so many miracles :lol: -Kurt

Correct, that is a Tektro 559 brake caliper. My Superbe is from 1968, no worries about braze-ons for me.
Here is a source:
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=48624

2fat2fly 02-21-21 04:26 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 21933783)
I'm a pragmatist. I go with what works vs. period correct or original. I love many aspects of old British bikes, what I don't like is steel rims. I use this Raleigh Superbe as a daily driver, and I want the benefits that go with aluminum rims--lighter, and much better stopping power in wet, especially when paired with newer brakes. And it gets wet here in Portland.

It's also a matter of aesthetics. I like black British bikes too (and own one), but I also love the green of my Superbe. I also like how gumwalls look (and there were gum and white walls back in the day, it's not a new thing.) True, they can get dirty, but they don't seem to get as dirty as I think they would.

And remember, you're not going to notice if rims are "British or Original" from a distance, unless you are a bike nerd on the internet trying to magnify that tiny jpg! :D

I hear ya, and its very much a personal preference thing.
My first 'English' bike was a black BSA, then a green Sunbeam, then nearly all since then have been black, with the exception of one green Sprite.
I suppose if my first one was red, I may prefer red or what ever color, I can't say.
I live in an area where its pretty flat, no huge hills, I've never found the need for any better brakes than what any old English bike had stock, and I suppose many aren't even up to that these days. My daily rider right now is a 65 Robin Hood that's pretty much in 'as found' condition right now, I got it in a clean out a few weeks ago, its black, and likely 100% original, right down to the Dunlop tires and John Bull brake pads. The brakes were basically froze up when I got it, I worked the cables free, removed all four brake pads and sanded them a bit, and put them back on. It stops fine for as fast as it goes. The steepest hill is around the corner from my house, maybe a 10% grade at best, its enough to heat up a coaster brake a bit but not enough to make me concerned about stopping on 55 year old brake pads and chrome rims. I've even taken it out in some light snow and rain just to see how it behaved in that weather. When I was younger, I rode no matter what the weather, but in retirement, I generally opt to hop in the heated car or truck. I ache enough this time of the year, I see no reason to make that any worse when the weather is like its been the last few weeks.
My driveway is a 1" thick solid sheet of ice right now, walking is a challenge, let alone riding a bike. Back in the day, I'd have been mounting up some ice tires with studs. These days, I'm content to sit inside and wait for it to melt while sipping some of Kentucky's finest.

I did look around a bit and from what I can see those CR 18 rims may be gone, most suppliers don't have them, and haven't had any since last spring. They were removed as an option from several of 2021 catalogs as well, at least in 32/40h.

I did just pick up a men's model Sprite 27, with bad wheels. That may be a candidate for some 700c alloy wheels and some wider tires since the OEM Sturmey Archer rims and hubs are junk. I already trial fit a pair of 700-40C tires and wheels and they look like they'll fit just fine. The self adjusting brakes may be reason to go with a set of Weinmann side pulls but I'll stay as period correct as I can.
The cleanout I just finished gave me a pretty large assortment of parts to mix and match, plus a few extra rides to work on as I get the time.

SirMike1983 02-21-21 09:31 PM

I've done the CR-18 swap on a couple bikes that I later sold, and I've put together CR-18 wheelsets for a couple people who wanted them. The rims are reasonably well-made, and they're certainly lighter than the Westricks. They brake as any modern, basic aluminum rim will brake.

The one thing I could not get past though was how difficult a time I had fitting tires to them. I fitted several different brands and types of tires to the various CR-18 wheelsets, and they always put up more of a fight than the Westricks for mounting and dismounting tires. This was universal to the CR-18s I had, and I'm not sure why it was such a struggle.

My bikes are all steel rims currently - Westricks, Westwoods, Dunlop Special Lightweights, and Schwinn rims. The braking is weak, but I've grown used to it.

Though I will say I'm a big fan of the LED conversion bulb kits you can get for the Dynohub lightsets. I think that was from Reflectalight, or whatever it's called now.

adventurepdx 02-22-21 01:09 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 21935135)
I've done the CR-18 swap on a couple bikes that I later sold, and I've put together CR-18 wheelsets for a couple people who wanted them. The rims are reasonably well-made, and they're certainly lighter than the Westricks. They brake as any modern, basic aluminum rim will brake.

The one thing I could not get past though was how difficult a time I had fitting tires to them. I fitted several different brands and types of tires to the various CR-18 wheelsets, and they always put up more of a fight than the Westricks for mounting and dismounting tires. This was universal to the CR-18s I had, and I'm not sure why it was such a struggle.

I haven't had that much issue with tires on my CR18 rims, and I use Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, which aren't exactly the easiest tires to get on/off. But I can see how tires would be easier to get on/off the older steel rims. I think it has to do with rim width--seems to me that wider rims make tire mounting/unmounting easier. The easiest for me is my Raleigh Crested Butte with Araya 26"x 1.75" rims--sometimes I don't even need to use levers to remove a tire! I wish there were modern alloy 26" (559) x 1.75" rim offerings, everything I've seen is narrower.

2fat2fly 02-22-21 05:27 AM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 21935264)
I haven't had that much issue with tires on my CR18 rims, and I use Schwalbe Delta Cruisers, which aren't exactly the easiest tires to get on/off. But I can see how tires would be easier to get on/off the older steel rims. I think it has to do with rim width--seems to me that wider rims make tire mounting/unmounting easier. The easiest for me is my Raleigh Crested Butte with Araya 26"x 1.75" rims--sometimes I don't even need to use levers to remove a tire! I wish there were modern alloy 26" (559) x 1.75" rim offerings, everything I've seen is narrower.

Funny you mentioned the Crested Butte, I just picked up a pair of mid 80's Raleigh MTB's, a red/brown colored Crested Butte and a green Grand Mesa.
Both are taller frames, which I really like but both are way too long reach wise. The Grand Mesa has 650b tires marked 26x1 1/2" on steel rims. The CB has Arraya 7X rims in 1.75". Both are a bit rough but not rusty. Both need derailleurs or an IGH conversion and something else for handlebars. I like the idea of having cantilever brakes on the CB. The GM has calipers.
What I find odd is that the Grand Mesa fits me better, it measures out to be only a 22" frame but its taller overall somehow, even sitting on two dryrotted flat tires. Both appear to have similar geometry, but the CB is pounds lighter but a lot of that is likely just the alloy wheels and skinwall tires. The Grand Mesa feels like a tank in comparison. Without weighing the two, I'd guess that the GM is 10 lbs or so heavier or close to 40lbs. When I first grabbed hold of it and lifted it into my truck I stopped to make sure the thing wasn't full or water or something, it felt that heavy. The CB was heavy too but not as heavy as the Grand Mesa.

I have a Trek cruiser here with 700c rims that appear to be either rebranded or similar to CR-18 rims, and those were really tough to change the tires on too. Its the first I've had to dig out tire levers in a long while but the tires mounted up nicely to those rims.
I seem to have a lot of issues getting stock tires up on the bead area of some Dunlop rims.
I've had a few that took leaving them sit in front of the heater over night over inflated to get the tires to 'pop' up in place, even after using silicone on the tire to make it a bit slippery. I had similar issues with Schwinn S5 rims too with newer tires.

adventurepdx 02-22-21 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 21935343)
Funny you mentioned the Crested Butte, I just picked up a pair of mid 80's Raleigh MTB's, a red/brown colored Crested Butte and a green Grand Mesa.
Both are taller frames, which I really like but both are way too long reach wise. The Grand Mesa has 650b tires marked 26x1 1/2" on steel rims. The CB has Arraya 7X rims in 1.75". .

I love my Crested Butte! Yes, the reach is looooong. This is the era (early-mid 80s) when mountain bike geometry was still based on pre-war Schwinn cruisers. Good swept-back handlebars will alleviate some of the reach issues. The geometry is pretty slack with lots of 68 degree angles, sort of like a DL-1.

The Crested Butte came from the era in mountain bikes before gaudy colors and suspension. So it's not hard to make it look more vintage (and more three-speedy) than it is.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ac1eee16_z.jpg

vintagebicycle 02-22-21 08:13 PM

I had a Grand Mesa about 25 years ago, I bought it at flea market after work had moved me to a new location.
The bike had 650b wheels, and at that time tires were nearly impossible to find. I nursed the original skinwall tires along for a couple of years but the bike had an issue with stopping, the rim had no sides, it was completely rounded chrome steel with dimpled spoke holes. The pads never really made good contact with the rims. The first time I really needed the brakes heading down a particularly steep hill that ended at the lake. No matter how hard I laid on the brakes, the thing kept going, a combination of brakes, and sneakers got it slowed down enough to sort of dump into a rounded turn so as not to hit a guard rail or go into the lake. I eventually tossed the original wheels in favor of a set of wheels off a Motobecane Nobly three speed with an SA AW hub. I had also found a set of box shaped aluminum fenders off of a German ladies bike that fit like a glove.
I also found a green and chrome chainguard off of a Vista three speed. I also swapped the bars and stem out for the bars off the German ladies bike. I ran Michelin World Tour tires, which filled the fenders pretty well.
I left it behind when I moved in the early 00's.
Overall I liked the bike, especially after the mods but it was one of the heaviest bikes I've ever owned.

SirMike1983 02-23-21 10:21 AM

What do you guys use to dismount the ball ring on the later Sturmey AW hubs that don't have a vise flat on the shell? Older hubs let you use a vise on the shell and punch on the ball ring to open up the hub. But what are you using for the later hubs that lack vise flats on the shell and have the smaller notches on the ball ring? Is there a circle spanner or c-spanner that works for these? The punch method is more troublesome on these later hubs from the 1960s and 70s.

markk900 02-23-21 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 21937607)
What do you guys use to dismount the ball ring on the later Sturmey AW hubs that don't have a vise flat on the shell? Older hubs let you use a vise on the shell and punch on the ball ring to open up the hub. But what are you using for the later hubs that lack vise flats on the shell and have the smaller notches on the ball ring? Is there a circle spanner or c-spanner that works for these? The punch method is more troublesome on these later hubs from the 1960s and 70s.

I still use a punch: if the hub in in a wheel I hold the wheel between my legs and punch "downwards"; if the hub is not in a wheel I try holding the body in the vice (with protection) and then use the punch. There is a proper SA tool (a ring spanner specific for this job) but the problem is essentially still the same if the hub is not in a wheel - how to hold the hub while you exert (sometimes considerable) force on the ball ring.

Salubrious 02-23-21 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 21937607)
What do you guys use to dismount the ball ring on the later Sturmey AW hubs that don't have a vise flat on the shell? Older hubs let you use a vise on the shell and punch on the ball ring to open up the hub. But what are you using for the later hubs that lack vise flats on the shell and have the smaller notches on the ball ring? Is there a circle spanner or c-spanner that works for these? The punch method is more troublesome on these later hubs from the 1960s and 70s.

Jon Sharrit, one of the founders of the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour, has been selling a tool that seems to be what you're asking about. It has two teeth that fit into the notches and otherwise allows you to place it in a vise. If the hub is on a wheel, its a simple matter at that point to get the ring loose.

jon@gentlemancyclist.com

This is assuming that you're talking about taking an AW hub apart for service. Its a handy tool; now that I'm using it I've found its not a bad idea to take the hub apart a bit to see that all is well or not inside. I've found two hubs with worn pawls and unsprung pawl springs. They run much better now.

cudak888 02-23-21 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 21937607)
What do you guys use to dismount the ball ring on the later Sturmey AW hubs that don't have a vise flat on the shell? Older hubs let you use a vise on the shell and punch on the ball ring to open up the hub. But what are you using for the later hubs that lack vise flats on the shell and have the smaller notches on the ball ring? Is there a circle spanner or c-spanner that works for these? The punch method is more troublesome on these later hubs from the 1960s and 70s.

For that matter, is there a dedicated wrench tool for the older style that's available out there? Wouldn't mind having one of each.

-Kurt

jackbombay 02-23-21 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 21937807)
...the problem is essentially still the same if the hub is not in a wheel - how to hold the hub while you exert (sometimes considerable) force on the ball ring.

a strap wrench would be my first approach.


SirMike1983 02-23-21 01:06 PM

Yes - these are spare hubs not mounted in a wheel. The smaller, round notch tends to fight the punch method, and meanwhile the hub tries to slip around in the padded vise. Maybe I'm just babying the shell too much. I've had more luck when they're laced into a wheel, but the loose ones are tougher. The strap wrench looks interesting to me. I'll email Jon about that tool. I'm nearing the bottom of my boxes of spare hubs finally, rebuilding whatever I can. I'm at the point where I'm parting together several partial hubs into one or two complete ones. Some of these are 1960s-70s era hubs though.

I agree that if there's a tool for each type that totally does away with the punch method, I'd get the tools and be done with it.

markk900 02-23-21 01:34 PM

jackbombay I have several strap wrenches and use them regularly for holding stuff, but for the specific purpose of holding the hub while trying to use a punch (which itself is delicate and needs two hands) I haven't quite mastered the coordination necessary. Next time I will try again but it wasn't successful for me anyway. Edit: I see you were probably referring to using the proper tool and a strap wrench - that would probably work pretty darn well......

SirMike1983 Here's the "proper" tool for the newer hubs with the half moon cutouts rather than the square one..... if you have the money and the regular need this is the shizzle.... https://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/pr.../detail/htr145

Ged117 02-23-21 04:35 PM

I'm heading into this job with my 1950 AG three-speed dynamo hub. It's certainly due for a service, and since it is in the wheel, I'm going to try a punch with the wheel between my legs. Since I brought the AG and the bike back to working service a few years ago, the 71 year old hub has been perfect, but I didn't know as much about the hubs back then, and only cleaned it out with WD40 before giving it some light oil. Now its time for a parts inspection and cleaning with fresh bearings and grease. Seen here with my wife's '56 Sports on a Summer day along the Ottawa River last year.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3c08378a_b.jpgIMG-20200519-WA0001

partyanimal 02-23-21 04:45 PM

Hi all,
Hoping someone can ID the year/model for this Raleigh. Not sure if there's a generic "ID This bike" thread and didn't want to start the 3000th one. Going to check out this bike tomorrow but I know some of y'all can pinpoint a bike just by the font on the logo. Pics aren't great. I'm guessing by the Raleigh lettering it's 70s but I'm not an expert on this stuff. I just really like the color/style of this bike and want it for a daily rider so not so concerned with value unless it's total junk. Dude's asking $100.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ccfcfc2f7a.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e491e25a10.png
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a4807a1dc.png

nlerner 02-23-21 05:02 PM

^ Those "self-adjusting" brake levers and decal style peg it right around 1974, but the rear hub date code (assuming it's the original wheel) should confirm.

partyanimal 02-23-21 05:06 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21938484)
^ Those "self-adjusting" brake levers and decal style peg it right around 1974, but the rear hub date code (assuming it's the original wheel) should confirm.

Thanks. Doing a little more digging here I figured it was mid-70s. Any ideas about the model?

Unca_Sam 02-23-21 05:12 PM


Originally Posted by partyanimal (Post 21938496)
Thanks. Doing a little more digging here I figured it was mid-70s. Any ideas about the model?

I'm just going to throw it out there, but I'd guess it's a "Sports". The other model would be a Superbe, known for the integrated steerer lock that no one ever has the key for.

partyanimal 02-23-21 05:18 PM

Thanks. I was going to guess Superbe but the Sports looks closer.

nlerner 02-23-21 05:47 PM

It says Sports on the chain guard.

partyanimal 02-23-21 06:16 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 21938552)
It says Sports on the chain guard.

lol, it sure does

BFisher 02-23-21 06:29 PM

I finally sourced some new tires for the DL-1, and took the opportunity to open up the front hub while I installed them today. I did the rear after the purchase and all was well.
Well, not so with the front. Cups are fantastic - cones are pitted. I tried Yellow Jersey, but they're unfortunately out. So, now I determine my next step.
Any leads on some fresh cones would be muchly appreciated.

Oh, tires are Conti Ride-Tour from BTD. They seem nice, and the price was good.


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