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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

cudak888 07-20-21 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22149237)

Maybe the original owner can consider that one time they ran into something and bent the front fork...

-Kurt

JohnDThompson 07-20-21 02:07 PM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by barnfind (Post 22149359)
Back in the day when threaded drivers were more common we came up with a custom jig or holder to removed stuck threaded sprockets without ruining the driver.
It was basically an oak 2x4 with a hole drilled through the center that matched the OD of the driver. Then there was a center bar that engaged the slots of the driver.

I just found a piece of steel (wrench handle, as it turned out) that would fit between the slots of the driver, clamped it in a vise, put the driver on it, and used a chain whip and cheater bar (the sprocket had probably been on there for at least half a century, with rust to show for it) to unscrew the driver. No harm done to the driver, but no great loss even if there was: the later splined driver for AW hubs is a drop-in replacement for the threaded driver and allows you to change sprockets without having to disassemble the hub.

Salubrious 07-20-21 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 22150316)
I just found a piece of steel (wrench handle, as it turned out) that would fit between the slots of the driver, clamped it in a vise, put the driver on it, and used a chain whip and cheater bar (the sprocket had probably been on there for at least half a century, with rust to show for it) to unscrew the driver. No harm done to the driver, but no great loss even if there was: the later splined driver for AW hubs is a drop-in replacement for the threaded driver and allows you to change sprockets without having to disassemble the hub.

Those drivers are pretty tough- keeping in mind that the cog puts that much torque on them to make the bike go.

thumpism 07-20-21 03:45 PM

I also have several splined drivers, if anyone wants one.

gster 07-20-21 04:01 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 22150062)
Maybe the original owner can consider that one time they ran into something and bent the front fork...

-Kurt

Good eye.
A young woman at the bar was keen to show me her new vintage bike.
A nice red Bianchi ($500)
I felt bad telling her that the fork was bent.
Fixable but I feel the seller was obligated to have told her
the truth considering the price.

mitchito 07-20-21 07:55 PM

I won 3 English 3 Speeds at an Estate Auction yesterday. Now I have to figure out what I've got besides the Hercules which I'm trying to date. Good thing is, this is my 10th post and I can post photos.

cudak888 07-20-21 08:02 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 22150316)
I just found a piece of steel (wrench handle, as it turned out) that would fit between the slots of the driver, clamped it in a vise, put the driver on it, and used a chain whip and cheater bar (the sprocket had probably been on there for at least half a century, with rust to show for it) to unscrew the driver. No harm done to the driver, but no great loss even if there was: the later splined driver for AW hubs is a drop-in replacement for the threaded driver and allows you to change sprockets without having to disassemble the hub.

^
Have used this method multiple times. It works, and the Sturmey driver is more than capable of handling the stress. I'd be more concerned about the wrench :lol:


Originally Posted by gster (Post 22150491)
Good eye.
A young woman at the bar was keen to show me her new vintage bike.
A nice red Bianchi ($500)
I felt bad telling her that the fork was bent.
Fixable but I feel the seller was obligated to have told her
the truth considering the price.

Always a good reason to keep the Park straightening tools on hand. Sorrows over bent forks can be solved quickly :)

-Kurt

Patrick L. 07-21-21 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by barnfind (Post 22149359)
Back in the day when threaded drivers were more common we came up with a custom jig or holder to removed stuck threaded sprockets without ruining the driver.
It was basically an oak 2x4 with a hole drilled through the center that matched the OD of the driver. Then there was a center bar that engaged the slots of the driver.
The board was cut in half lengthwise. The two halves would grasp the driver tightly in a vise, and the bar through the middle kept it from spinning.
We would warm the sprocket up with either a propane torch or heat gun and remove the sprocket with a chain whip.
Something like this:

Barnfind, Thanks for describing your technique and providing the excellent drawing of the jig.


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22150049)
Of course! Any track cog for a track bike has the same thread. I have a Surly cog on my 1935 SA KB hub (don't tell anyone- shh). Its hidden inside the chaincase anyway. To remove the cog you simply need a chainwhip. I got one from Park tools which was equipped with a smaller chain but it was easy enough to replace the chain with the size I needed. With that the original cog came right off no worries.

Salubrious, Thanks for providing the source for threaded cogs.


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 22150316)
I just found a piece of steel (wrench handle, as it turned out) that would fit between the slots of the driver, clamped it in a vise, put the driver on it, and used a chain whip and cheater bar (the sprocket had probably been on there for at least half a century, with rust to show for it) to unscrew the driver. No harm done to the driver, but no great loss even if there was: the later splined driver for AW hubs is a drop-in replacement for the threaded driver and allows you to change sprockets without having to disassemble the hub.

JohnDThompson, Thanks for describing your technique for unscrewing the threaded cogs.


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22150459)
I also have several splined drivers, if anyone wants one.

Thumpism, Thanks for the offer.

mitchito 07-21-21 11:27 AM

I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about this bike I just got along with 2 others from an estate. It is a Royce Union. It is made in Manchester by what looks like Rigby Brothers. It has a SA hub dated 57 2 so I guess it was made in 1957. I know about later Royce Unions that were made in japan and other places but this is a mystery to me.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0066a133c3.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dcadae17b1.jpg

gringomojado 07-21-21 03:02 PM

Which (post)war?
gm

rustymetal 07-21-21 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 22150316)
I just found a piece of steel (wrench handle, as it turned out) that would fit between the slots of the driver, clamped it in a vise, put the driver on it, and used a chain whip and cheater bar (the sprocket had probably been on there for at least half a century, with rust to show for it) to unscrew the driver. No harm done to the driver, but no great loss even if there was: the later splined driver for AW hubs is a drop-in replacement for the threaded driver and allows you to change sprockets without having to disassemble the hub.

I haven't done a ton of those but I broke the chain on my chain whip trying to remove a threaded sprocket, it wasn't particularly rusty either.
It took both heat and some penetrating oil to get it to break loose. I even bent the handle on one of my Mac Tools 1 1/4" wrench using it to hold a driver.
I had another one that I just wanted to salvage the driver and sprocket from, but instead of breaking free it shattered as the sprocket gave way. After I got it apart, the threads on the driver were all galled up, but the sprocket was salvageable and is on one of my older bikes now.

rustymetal 07-21-21 03:47 PM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 22150062)
Maybe the original owner can consider that one time they ran into something and bent the front fork...

-Kurt

Or where the original saddle, fenders, and grips went.
If it came from the original owner, he wasn't very easy on it over the years.

I see the bent forks,
the grips are green Schwinn grips,
It looks like back fenders on a green bike,
and the saddle likely belongs on the bike that donated the grips.
Plus, the rear rack is sagging as if it were used as a passenger seat
The stem is also set a bit high, and likely tightened up within the upper threads which often leads to bulging threads.
All in all it appears to have had a rough life.

cudak888 07-21-21 03:56 PM


Originally Posted by rustymetal (Post 22152052)
Or where the original saddle, fenders, and grips went.
If it came from the original owner, he wasn't very easy on it over the years.

I see the bent forks,
the grips are green Schwinn grips,
It looks like back fenders on a green bike,
and the saddle likely belongs on the bike that donated the grips.
Plus, the rear rack is sagging as if it were used as a passenger seat
The stem is also set a bit high, and likely tightened up within the upper threads which often leads to bulging threads.
All in all it appears to have had a rough life.

They're pretty upfront about everything except the front fork:


"1969 Raleigh Superbe 3 speed bicycle. Made in England. Was a premier bike in that era. Missing the headlamp and tire pump. Still pedals and stops fine. Will need tires. Has Schwinn handle grips instead of the Raleighs. I have owned it over 50 years. Rode it a lot when I was younger."
Given their description, it's probably a genuine oversight and not outright dishonesty - as we see too often on Feebay, Cough'erUp, and Facecrook Marketplace.

All things considered, $80 is not the worst deal in the world for someone who has the skills to cold set the fork. Not a screaming good deal either, especially if that bronze green has gone chalky, but not bad.

-Kurt

mitchito 07-21-21 05:08 PM

I just took the Royce/Rigby out for a spin. Started out ok then started having slack in driveline. Halfway around the block it went completely loose, pedals just spinning. Any idea what it could be? I have another rear wheel from a '70s bike but I would like to keep the original 1957 hub if possible.

Unca_Sam 07-21-21 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by mitchito (Post 22152167)
I just took the Royce/Rigby out for a spin. Started out ok then started having slack in driveline. Halfway around the block it went completely loose, pedals just spinning. Any idea what it could be? I have another rear wheel from a '70s bike but I would like to keep the original 1957 hub if possible.

Which hub is it using?
AW hubs have a "neutral" between normal and high, and a misadjusted indicator rod can line the driver up in that spot. I think Sheldon Brown or John Allen published an AW shifting setup procedure, but it's fairly simple to do. The directions assume the cable is not attached to the rod. Depending on which gear the hub is slipping in, the cable tension could be either too high or too low.

1: screw the indicator rod into the hub until snug, then back off as much as necessary to align the chain in the direction of the fulcrum pulley.
2: attach the cable to the chain, with the selector in high.
3: switch the selector to normal.
4: adjust cable tension so that the indicator rod's shoulders (just below the chain rivet) are even with the end of the axle or slightly past it. It's helpful to have the bike in a stand to confirm that you have a solid engagement. Some rods have a ring in them at the right spot, you might need to experiment.
5: change the selector to high, then down to low to confirm that there's enough cable for the selector to lock into low.

cudak888 07-21-21 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by mitchito (Post 22152167)
I just took the Royce/Rigby out for a spin. Started out ok then started having slack in driveline. Halfway around the block it went completely loose, pedals just spinning. Any idea what it could be? I have another rear wheel from a '70s bike but I would like to keep the original 1957 hub if possible.

Three questions:
  • Has the cable adjustment been checked? Refer to @Unca_Sam above for adjustment.
  • Do you know what lubricant, if any, is inside the hub? Did you put anything in the hub prior to riding, if so, what?
  • Is it a Sturmey-Archer SW?
-Kurt

clubman 07-22-21 06:31 AM


Originally Posted by mitchito (Post 22152167)
... but I would like to keep the original 1957 hub if possible.

That may be the one part you can't keep, as noted above.

mitchito 07-22-21 06:58 AM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 22152410)
Three questions:
  • Has the cable adjustment been checked? Refer to @Unca_Sam above for adjustment.
  • Do you know what lubricant, if any, is inside the hub? Did you put anything in the hub prior to riding, if so, what?
  • Is it a Sturmey-Archer SW?
-Kurt

I have not checked anything, just hopped on and took a short test ride
See Above
Yes Sturmey-Archer hub

I am new to these types of bikes and I don't know all of the names of the parts so the tutorial above is somewhat lost on me. Not sure what rod or fulcrum it is referring to.

cudak888 07-22-21 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by mitchito (Post 22152776)
I have not checked anything, just hopped on and took a short test ride
See Above
Yes Sturmey-Archer hub

I am new to these types of bikes and I don't know all of the names of the parts so the tutorial above is somewhat lost on me. Not sure what rod or fulcrum it is referring to.

No worries. On the hub, it should be marked "SW" or "AW."

First step is to check that. The SW was a failed model that lasted for a few years, including '57. The AW was produced concurrently. The model you have will determine the best approach to solve the issue.

-Kurt

markk900 07-22-21 07:35 AM


Originally Posted by cudak888 (Post 22152066)
They're pretty upfront about everything except the front fork:



Given their description, it's probably a genuine oversight and not outright dishonesty - as we see too often on Feebay, Cough'erUp, and Facecrook Marketplace.

All things considered, $80 is not the worst deal in the world for someone who has the skills to cold set the fork. Not a screaming good deal either, especially if that bronze green has gone chalky, but not bad.

-Kurt

If the rims were good and it was near me (ie in the same country) I'd be all over that bike at $80. I even have a replacement fork if I were to build it up but to me parts on that bike are already worth the money.

Unca_Sam 07-22-21 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by mitchito (Post 22152776)
I have not checked anything, just hopped on and took a short test ride
See Above
Yes Sturmey-Archer hub

I am new to these types of bikes and I don't know all of the names of the parts so the tutorial above is somewhat lost on me. Not sure what rod or fulcrum it is referring to.

No problem, I was just trying to save your monthly google search allowance. Sheldon Brown's IGH information index
RJ the Bike Guy has a decent video about setting one up as well. Sturmey Archer (and by extension, any SA clones you can find) still has manuals kindly hosted by other magnanimous individuals as well. I know I've been able to find exploded diagrams of the hub parts without too much trouble. I refurbished a couple of AW hubs using RJ the Bike Guy's video as a guide (and managed to put the low gear pawls in reversed the first time). I doubt there's anything wrong inside the hub, as the slipping is typically a misadjusted cable setting allowing the driver to slide into that neutral position.

That said, cracking open and rebuilding an AW hub, however unnecessary it might be, was quite satisfying.

Salubrious 07-22-21 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by mitchito (Post 22152776)
I have not checked anything, just hopped on and took a short test ride
See Above
Yes Sturmey-Archer hub

I am new to these types of bikes and I don't know all of the names of the parts so the tutorial above is somewhat lost on me. Not sure what rod or fulcrum it is referring to.

If this is an SW, the 'SW' has come to mean 'Sometimes Works'. The lubricant in them is critical! But the metallurgy really wasn't there at the time and so the hubs slipped so Sturmey discontinued them and went back to the AW.

jamesj 07-22-21 01:21 PM

I was going to order some 26 x 1 3/8 rims from Harris but seeing as they are closed does anyone know where to get any?
I really want to change the steel rims out on my raleigh.

arex 07-22-21 09:14 PM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 22153283)
I was going to order some 26 x 1 3/8 rims from Harris but seeing as they are closed does anyone know where to get any?
I really want to change the steel rims out on my raleigh.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...s.php?id=62891
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...664f4013ea.png

Johno59 07-23-21 08:55 AM

Cable stretch
 
If it hasn't been ridden much the cable assembly may be stretching moving about. A 1/16 "" of slack will change gear so give it time to settle. Pull by hand the indicator chain in and out whilst cranking the wheel to see if it correctly changes thru the three gears. If it still rogue shifts squirt some WD40 down the filler plug hole and crank the wheel.This will clean the internals of crud and try again to select the gears whilst cranking.
If successful put a tablespoon of heavy gear oil in and off you..
If no success you will have to strip the hub. Usually the pawl springs are shot/ blocked with crud. Just try clean it thoroughly and go again


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