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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Sixty Fiver 04-27-13 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 15558852)
As for the fork key, I was able to go to a locksmith and get a working one for mine. Not stock, but a key non the less.

Best to find an old school locksmith (and one that keeps his catalogs) I believe that we (like I did anything but walk in the door and ask) found the blanks in a 02 or 03 catalog. And luckily his distributor still had a "couple". I'm under the impression that the key makers don't make this blank at all anymore, but it's quite possible that the warehouses still have some floating around.

I am pretty sure that Atlasta on MLK / Grand can handle this... was talking to them about this in January and it appears that they have done this before.

In other news... there is a little trois vitesse ride coming up here for next weekend. :)

Howard 04-27-13 01:44 PM

Raleigh. Nottingham.

Yeah, I know, there's lot's not quite right with this, and I know it still has some teething to work through.
However, I think I like the general look of it.

Got the bike as a frame/fork/handlebars/crank/bb back in January, and a friend bought the 650B Honjos there - but didn't have a 650B or A set of wheels. Serial number indicates it's from 1948, and
The brake levers are tektro fl750's, and I'm going to try them in the slightly unusual location because I think it will give me an extra set of hand positions.
The brakes are Dia Compe center pulls.
The TCW is kind of a pain, and I might put an AW on it before long.



http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8256/8...8b09c753_z.jpg
Raleigh48_Nottingham_2

_dylan 04-27-13 01:51 PM

Anyone looking to unload a English 3 speed? Preferably Raleigh, Robin Hood, Hercules...?

JohnDThompson 04-27-13 05:42 PM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 15558852)
I'm under the impression that the key makers don't make this blank at all anymore, but it's quite possible that the warehouses still have some floating around.

"Old Bike Trader" in England seems to still have some. I had them make one for me a few years ago. There are apparently two cylinder types: NGN (which is what I have) and another whose name escapes me. You just provide the cylinder type and number (stamped on the face of the cylinder) and they'll cut the key for you. Part #RAH102 here:

http://www.oldbiketrader.co.uk/displ...?options=parts

wahoonc 04-27-13 07:31 PM


Originally Posted by conradpdx (Post 15558852)
As for the fork key, I was able to go to a locksmith and get a working one for mine. Not stock, but a key non the less.

Best to find an old school locksmith (and one that keeps his catalogs) I believe that we (like I did anything but walk in the door and ask) found the blanks in a 02 or 03 catalog. And luckily his distributor still had a "couple". I'm under the impression that the key makers don't make this blank at all anymore, but it's quite possible that the warehouses still have some floating around.

I have a couple of locksmiths that still have the blank hanging on their key boards. The key blanks I have are ILCO K1122D BN1, the key that came with the bike was a Star blank with the same numbers on it. I don't have the original Raleigh key for mine. IIRC I had the spare keys made about 4 years ago.

Aaron :)

JohnDThompson 04-28-13 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 15560458)
I have a couple of locksmiths that still have the blank hanging on their key boards. The key blanks I have are ILCO K1122D BN1, the key that came with the bike was a Star blank with the same numbers on it. I don't have the original Raleigh key for mine.

FWIW, this is the OEM blank key for the NGN cylinder:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/ngn-keys.jpg

PalmettoUpstate 04-28-13 01:45 PM

Nice touch there...

Nottingham Dr.

We have one of those - indeed an entire Sherwood Forest neighborhood - close by.

Guess I'm gonna cruise thru there this afternoon looking for suitable backdrops...

adventurepdx 04-28-13 03:11 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 15559139)
In other news... there is a little trois vitesse ride coming up here for next weekend. :)

I believe Sixty Fiver is referring to this li'l ol' ride.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8536/8...b36e147353.jpg

adventurepdx 04-28-13 03:17 PM


Originally Posted by Howard (Post 15559528)

I see what you did there.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7151/6...fd6622c83f.jpg

(And are your tires Col de La Vies?)

PalmettoUpstate 04-28-13 03:50 PM


Originally Posted by auchencrow (Post 12778770)
Aaron -
I took your advice and searched for old Raleigh ads and catalogs. This is what I came up with:


Raleigh 1937 Golden Arrow Catalog Page - (Can't tell what color of tires they had).

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...ldenArrowC.jpg

That catalog line drawing advert needs this to flesh things out about these superb bicycles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERgcJHq6sBE

Howard 04-28-13 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 15562902)
I see what you did there.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7151/6...fd6622c83f.jpg

(And are your tires Col de La Vies?)

Michelin World Tours, actually.
Dia Compe centerpulls (because I had them and I like the look) with some Tektro 750 levers (because I had them and ... )

Anybody with a Raleigh on Carlton or Worksop? Trent?

PalmettoUpstate 04-28-13 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12798775)
Sure, the steel fulcrum sleeves are indestructible but the plastic ones are good for 15-20 years at the very least. The new ones just don't fail until many years and heavy use. It wasn't a problem with the bikes until they got old. The only stories of failure of these sleeves are on bikes that are 30+ years old. Not a big deal to replace them with a nice new plastic one.

If one is paranoid then just replace it when one replaces a cable housing each time . They are very cheap. I bought 10 the last time I had an order through Harris. I make it a point to replace them with a new plastic one on every bike I restore -especially if it has a steel one which goes in my personal stash -muhahahahahaha!

I've noticed that some of the "inferior" brands of bikes use a nylon sleeve [as opposed to the deterioratable one on the later Raleighs]. To me they seem as permanent as steel. Is "deterioratable" a word?

PalmettoUpstate 04-28-13 05:11 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 12829124)
Couldn't you drill holes on the top of the dropout for mounting the rack?

Though it shouldn't be hard to find a rack that fits.

Why isn't the good ol' Pletscher rack made any more? That was a huge favorite in the 70's. It was wobbly, but I didn't see many fail, and everyone loved the spring clip.

Just FYI, I'm finally getting back to teading through this best of threads on the bikes I like best. [3-speed lightweights]

Re the Pletscher racks; maybe this is old news but scroll down here: http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/pletscher.htm

PalmettoUpstate 04-28-13 05:17 PM

65'er this is from yours at 2127 on this thread...


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 12834633)
My second favourite rack is the one that came with old Peugeots... it is strong and elegant and really suits vintage bicycles.

I'd certainly like to know more [pics mayhaps] about the Peugeot rack...

Can you share more on this?

yellowbarber 04-29-13 07:28 AM

parts request:
I'm on the hunt for a pair of the bolts & ferrules that attach the rear stays on a DL1. Anybody got some kicking around in their bins?

clubman 04-29-13 01:02 PM

61 Raleigh Superbe
 
I bought this Superbe from an lbs last year but only just got out of the basement and into the light. It's a 61 Superbe, Canadian or export edition. It's carmine red and has chrome fork tips to boot! :thumb:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E...0/DSC06248.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-G...0/DSC06245.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i...0/DSC06241.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-a...0/DSC06242.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-n...0/DSC06243.jpg

wahoonc 04-29-13 02:35 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 15562682)
Nice touch there...

Nottingham Dr.

We have one of those - indeed an entire Sherwood Forest neighborhood - close by.

Guess I'm gonna cruise thru there this afternoon looking for suitable backdrops...

We have Raleigh, NC which includes a Sherwood Forest Subdivision, there is also a Nottingham Road, but it isn't in Sherwood Forest. :P

Aaron :)

PalmettoUpstate 04-29-13 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 13236381)
Jagwire makes decent cable. If you are replacing the cable think about replacing the housing as well. The older housings are cool looking and all but a modern high-quality lined housing will do much more for your braking than changing the cable. If the cable is bad, change it -but if it isn't kinked, rusted or frayed then changing it isn't going to make much of a difference in your brake feel and power without changing the housing as well. If you want good housing Jagwire makes good stuff too.

THink about replacing the brake ferrule/stop at the lever as well -especially if yours are the old cruddy plastic/nylon type. This will help a LOT in brake feel. Those old plastic ones are just waiting to fail in a hard stop.

Don't buy the one I listed from BikeWorldUSA at Amazon -I just used it as an example. That part is EXTREMELY over-priced even without considering the terrible shipping costs (as are most things from BikeWorldUSA -use Niagara if you buy anything online though Amazon). Your LBS can sell you the same part much cheaper and not over-charge you like BikeWorldUSA does.

Confessing here and now that I'm continuing to read thru this thread and savor the insights...

Amesja I really like Niagara, what do you think of their brands of bulk [50 ft. rolls] of cable housing? It looks like they have several brands in the bulk rolls but I don't see Jagwire among them.

I too like the ribbed OE cable housing but I'd get rid of it in a heartbeat if significantly better braking could be achieved...

See: http://www.niagaracycle.com/search.p...+cable+housing

Thanks

Sixty Fiver 04-29-13 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 15563221)
65'er this is from yours at 2127 on this thread...

I'd certainly like to know more [pics mayhaps] about the Peugeot rack...

Can you share more on this?

These were the wire frame racks that were fitted to the UE series Peugeot bicycle... they are not heavy duty racks but will serve to carry a nice amount of gear, work with modern bags, and have no trap like a Pletscher.

I have one mounted to my '54 and will have to go down and take a picture since the WWW does not have many clear ones.

noglider 04-30-13 07:40 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 15566931)
Confessing here and now that I'm continuing to read thru this thread and savor the insights...

Amesja I really like Niagara, what do you think of their brands of bulk [50 ft. rolls] of cable housing? It looks like they have several brands in the bulk rolls but I don't see Jagwire among them.

I too like the ribbed OE cable housing but I'd get rid of it in a heartbeat if significantly better braking could be achieved...

See: http://www.niagaracycle.com/search.p...+cable+housing

Thanks

I bought a big roll of black housing from Niagara a few years ago, since I was repairing neighbors' bikes and flipping bikes in my home. It worked just fine. Most of it is gone, but I have enough for a few more bikes left. I don't know if I would call it unusually good, but I have no complaints.

The original inner wires on Raleighs were extra thick, and they were therefore stiff. If you can find heavy duty housings, you'll like them, but I don't know where to get them. Maybe Dura Ace or Campagnolo housings are extra strong, but you'll pay a lot for them. I don't bother with that. You can find a good inner wire more easily.

PalmettoUpstate 04-30-13 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 15568715)
These were the wire frame racks that were fitted to the UE series Peugeot bicycle... they are not heavy duty racks but will serve to carry a nice amount of gear, work with modern bags, and have no trap like a Pletscher.

I have one mounted to my '54 and will have to go down and take a picture since the WWW does not have many clear ones.

Much appreciated; I have a nice Peugeot frame upstairs that I haven't decided what I am going to build with but I guess I need to do something with it since my eldest married a Frenchman!

From seeing your pics and those of others here, I have pretty much decided that these bikes [English & English-inspired 3-speeds] generally need a rear rack if one wants to extract the tremendous utility that they're inherently capable of providing...

PalmettoUpstate 04-30-13 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 15569528)
The original inner wires on Raleighs were extra thick, and they were therefore stiff. If you can find heavy duty housings, you'll like them, but I don't know where to get them. Maybe Dura Ace or Campagnolo housings are extra strong, but you'll pay a lot for them. I don't bother with that. You can find a good inner wire more easily.

Can you expound on that a little?

I had indeed noted that the Raleigh wires are very robust so are you saying that, working with robust housing, they give as satisfactory performance as, say, some of the new galvanized wire and the new generic "lined" housing?

When I was doing the recently more-or less-completed "Princess Pea" I ended up using an old housing with a new wire to sort out the rear brake** because I couldn't get the new housing to "stain" or "yellow" so that it didn't clash with the old housing on the front brake [smooth] and shifter [ribbed]. Anyway, seeing what Amesja and others have said about brakes, and from my own wrenching thus far, I have almost decided that it would be worth it to just replace the wires and housings on a LOT of the stuff I have accumulated in the last couple of years...

I have struggled along with an inferior cable cutter; what's your recommendation there?

**The rear brake cable on a number of the women's 3-speeds I have worked on have been seized up; I assume because moisture condenses in the "trap" loop. Sometimes the ATF/acetone mixture that I use - dripped into the housing on the brake end - works; sometimes it doesn't...

clasher 04-30-13 11:42 AM

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8540/...83b21713_z.jpg

Finally fixed my folding bike back up to shiny... I can't bring myself to upgrade it and it's just a bit too small for me to ride comfortably. Put a new chain and a bigger cog on, as well as new pads, cables and housing for the brakes. The shifter cable looks a little rough but it shifts fine so I'm gonna leave it alone. I'd love to get a frame or a beat up 20 to rebuild with modern parts but I couldn't bring myself to "upgrade" this one since it still works fine... gotta thin the herd a bit before I start up more projects though.

wahoonc 05-01-13 06:35 PM


Originally Posted by clasher (Post 15570698)
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8540/...83b21713_z.jpg

Finally fixed my folding bike back up to shiny... I can't bring myself to upgrade it and it's just a bit too small for me to ride comfortably. Put a new chain and a bigger cog on, as well as new pads, cables and housing for the brakes. The shifter cable looks a little rough but it shifts fine so I'm gonna leave it alone. I'd love to get a frame or a beat up 20 to rebuild with modern parts but I couldn't bring myself to "upgrade" this one since it still works fine... gotta thin the herd a bit before I start up more projects though.

Define "too small"... I put a 450mm alloy seat post on mine and ride the fool out of it. FWIW my "normal" road frame is 64cm or so. British 3 speeds, including the Twentys have a compact cockpit.

Aaron :)

clasher 05-01-13 07:35 PM

Oh yeah it just needs a bigger seatpost that's all, and maybe the stem up a bit, but I have to thin the herd somewhere and these are plentiful around here it seems.

ntdt 05-01-13 07:45 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Hi all,

This is my first post. I've recently got a very rusty 3 speed bike. I plan to clean, repaint the frame, fenders. The hub is Sturmey-Archer with date 58 2. The bike is a Majestic Meteor from Montreal. Do you have any information about this mark? Where can I start to bring it back to ride able state. I'd like to do it as a gift for my wife.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314200http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314201http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314203http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314204http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314205

SirMike1983 05-01-13 08:01 PM

Looks to me like a BCC Birmingham produced core and chainguard.

_dylan 05-01-13 08:08 PM

This forum always makes me super envious.... Raleigh, oh Raleigh--wherefore art thou, Raleigh gods?

wahoonc 05-02-13 05:58 AM


Originally Posted by ntdt (Post 15577389)
Hi all,

This is my first post. I've recently got a very rusty 3 speed bike. I plan to clean, repaint the frame, fenders. The hub is Sturmey-Archer with date 58 2. The bike is a Majestic Meteor from Montreal. Do you have any information about this mark? Where can I start to bring it back to ride able state. I'd like to do it as a gift for my wife.

That is interesting! Nice find, good luck with the cleanup/restoration. I have not seen that brand before. But it looks like a good solid 3 speed.

Aaron :)

PalmettoUpstate 05-02-13 11:05 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 15577446)
Looks to me like a BCC Birmingham produced core and chainguard.

I definitely think you're on the right track there SirMike. I have been researching the RAYNAL brand and from what I've determined so far - which I believe has a 99% chance of being correct - is that RAYNAL was a BCC brand in 1955 or '56 - when "UGLY BETTY" was built.

I had begun parting out UGLY BETTY but decided to keep her instead - she literally screams "patina" and I could tell when I got her on the stand and spun the crank and wheels that somebody had loved her very much... More on that in a bit...

Note the angle of the top tube coming out of the seat tube; just like the Majestic at 4378:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314347


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