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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

paulb_in_bkln 07-14-18 06:43 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20444270)
Don't know if anyone has tried this before, but it's new to me. Since I started messing with 3-speeds, one of the things that has been uncomfortable for me is the vintage grips that were on the bikes. The simple round ones seemed to small for my hands, and the ones with finger ridges didn't match up with my grip. Now, if I were building garage queens that wouldn't be ridden, I'd definitely leave the original grips on the bike. But I ride my Raleigh much more than I thought I would (errands, moderate rides of 15-20 miles), so I started looking at grips that would be more comfortable.The other day in the shop, I had somewhat of an epiphany, which is rare on account of all the brain cells I've murdered over the years. With supplies on hand, I put together a pair of very nice grips that are super comfortable. Here's what I did:
1. I had length of wide heat shrink tubing that I use to secure the bar tape on my road bikes. Got it on eBay a couple years ago.


2. I rummaged around and found an old pair of mountain bike grips that I had swapped out years ago. They are clamp-on, so they will be easy to remove.



3. Then, I dug through my scrap bag and found some old bar tape that I removed from my road bike last year. I keep it around for padding when I rewrap my bars.

4. I cut two pieces of shrink wrap off (about a quarter inch each) and set them aside.

5. I wrapped the mtb grips just like you would wrap a road bar. I used a small piece of tape to hold the bar tape as I started it.

6. When I had the bar tape on the way I wanted it, I slid the shrink wrap over each end and heated it up with me heat gun (don't get the gun too close to the grip).
Turned out pretty nice and very comfortable!

As I've gotten older I've noticed hand and wrist discomfort on longer rides so I'm all for discarding any received wisdom in favor of whatever is effective. If your DIY grips work well, great, and they look good, too.

paulb_in_bkln 07-14-18 06:50 AM

Both the AW hubs I have in use have developed a reluctance to stay in first gear, even with the shift cable pulled tight (really tight). Is this a symptom of weak pawl springs?

ascherer 07-14-18 07:36 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20444270)

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...39e8b3195d.jpg

Turned out pretty nice and very comfortable!

Great solution! I’m “borrowing” the heat shrink approach for my road bikes to be sure. I have large and bony hands, and I find that shellacked cork grips give me a good fit with reasonable shock absorption for our rough city streets.

SirMike1983 07-14-18 12:12 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20444442)
The 51 Rudge I'm working on now is my oldest project bike so I have some learning to do. As found, it had this steel kickstand attached.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...548b5a4baf.jpg

It's a poor fit to the frame, looks aftermarket to me. The first mention of a Raleigh factory kickstand I can find is here in this 1951 catalog. It was a cast version offered as standard on the Superbe. There is no mention of kick stands in the 1948 parts catalog. As best as I can tell, Raleigh's light roadsters didn't come with them until the 1951 Superbe.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6bddbfab53.jpg
I may be wrong, if anyone here can correct me, please let me know, but I'm betting the clunky steel stand on the Rudge wasn't original factory equipment and this gives me the right to chuck it. The bike wil get a nice 70s cast alloy Pletscher ESGE .


That is a later, aftermarket stand. Then tend to mash the chainstays in particular (that's the type of stand that mashed the stays on my Sprite). The 1970s Raleigh ESGE stands are a good replacement (Raleigh Model A, I think).

BigChief 07-14-18 06:19 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20447358)
That is a later, aftermarket stand. Then tend to mash the chainstays in particular (that's the type of stand that mashed the stays on my Sprite). The 1970s Raleigh ESGE stands are a good replacement (Raleigh Model A, I think).

Yes, the ones sold by Raleigh with the R-A stamp. Those are the ones I look for. They have the ears on the top plate that extend down and lock it in alignment with the rest of the stand. I think these require even less torque than the ones with independent top plates to hold firmly. The difference between these and the alloy Raleigh stands isn't just a little. It takes a far greater force to knock the bike over if it's fitted with an ESGE.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bbbc557ade.jpg

Velocivixen 07-14-18 07:39 PM

@BigChief - What a lovely bike. Thank you so much for posting your progress. I have always wondered if and how to disassemble a flick shifter, as I have some that need work on the “innards” but I couldn’t figure a way to get apart, or get back together.

If you end end up doing any disassembly or spring replacement I would be happy if you could post some up close photos. I appreciate your efforts.

johnnyspaghetti 07-14-18 09:24 PM

I figured this 1956 sports was worth $50. Kind of rough.Haven't had an "AW" hub before. What are the differences compared to an "SA"hub?https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ff4e47f4a.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...032c83b4de.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a6d6bd6bd.jpg

BigChief 07-15-18 04:53 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 20448061)
@BigChief - What a lovely bike. Thank you so much for posting your progress. I have always wondered if and how to disassemble a flick shifter, as I have some that need work on the “innards” but I couldn’t figure a way to get apart, or get back together.

If you end end up doing any disassembly or spring replacement I would be happy if you could post some up close photos. I appreciate your efforts.

It's a fun project, like hubs, to undertake. Disassembly is easy. All you need is a work area where you won't loose tiny parts, the right size punch and something to support the front of the unit as you drift the pins out. A board with a hole would do.
The two headed pins are only press fit into the back wall of the case. Once you drift them clear of that, the whole assemble comes apart. The 2 tiny pins in the trigger are loose. Be careful not to loose them. I have a photo gallery showing both styles of triggers disassembled. There's also a handy picture showing the correct position of the cam against the trigger. Getting it back together is the tricky part because you have to get the two headed pins lined up to their holes while everything is under pressure from the pawl spring. There's a trick to that that I would be happy to describe in detail anytime. I love shop talk.
shifter gallery

BigChief 07-15-18 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20448227)
I figured this 1956 sports was worth $50. Kind of rough.Haven't had an "AW" hub before. What are the differences compared to an "SA"hub?https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ff4e47f4a.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...032c83b4de.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8a6d6bd6bd.jpg

Hard to see in these pictures, but it looks like you might get a window shifter, some silver cable housings, bottom bracket parts, fork maybe? a 56 AW and a dyno hub out of it. Too bad about the seat stay. Don't know if the frame is reparable or not.

gster 07-15-18 06:59 AM

Robin Hood Update
Despite trying various solutions, this Robin Hood still seems to wander at low speeds.
I even swapped out the front wheel with no improvement. I still like it.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...edb8c19cfa.jpg
I found a nice little saddle bag here in Toronto at the Dollarama for $4.00.
We'll see how long it holds up.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cc520a9ab3.jpg
I've also added an old "SOTAM" bell.
Sounds like the Ice Cream Man.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af88c39d8e.jpg
Meanwhile, someone I know is looking for a bike and I'm thinking of offering a choice of one of these.
1971 Hercules
1964 Eatons Glider
1972 Raleigh Superbe
All have been rebuilt and are ready to go.
I can offer a better price if I swap out the leather saddles for vinyl.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...55c09802e0.jpg

johnnyspaghetti 07-15-18 08:32 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20448504)
Hard to see in these pictures, but it looks like you might get a window shifter, some silver cable housings, bottom bracket parts, fork maybe? a 56 AW and a dyno hub out of it. Too bad about the seat stay. Don't know if the frame is reparable or not.

I figure th GH6 is worth it alone, Everything turns well but the rear cable is seized. Again, English style brake cable routing. Good crank & pedals.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...768bdf4c75.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5e4977f9b2.jpg

BigChief 07-15-18 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20448590)
Robin Hood Update
Despite trying various solutions, this Robin Hood still seems to wander at low speeds.
I even swapped out the front wheel with no improvement. I still like it.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...edb8c19cfa.jpg
I found a nice little saddle bag here in Toronto at the Dollarama for $4.00.
We'll see how long it holds up.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cc520a9ab3.jpg
I've also added an old "SOTAM" bell.
Sounds like the Ice Cream Man.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af88c39d8e.jpg
Meanwhile, someone I know is looking for a bike and I'm thinking of offering a choice of one of these.
1971 Hercules
1964 Eatons Glider
1972 Raleigh Superbe
All have been rebuilt and are ready to go.
I can offer a better price if I swap out the leather saddles for vinyl.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...55c09802e0.jpg

Nice day for a ride here today. Heavy overcast but no rain. Been riding the semi scorcher lately. I tend to binge ride different bikes. You're lucky. I don't know a soul that wants old 3 speeds and I really need to start getting rid of a few. It's on my list of things to do.:rolleyes:

BigChief 07-15-18 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20448708)
I figure th GH6 is worth it alone, Everything turns well but the rear cable is seized. Again, English style brake cable routing. Good crank & pedals.

Oh, you got a bunch of nice stuff there. The whole crank and pedals look good. Even the mudguards and chainguard look like they could be smoothed out and repainted. Hope you can salvage the cable housings. Hard to find good 50s silver ones like that. I'll be doing my very first Dyno hub soon. There's a good rebuild video for them on youtube. Looking forward to that, but If I have any daylight left after chores today, I think I'll ride instead of wrench.

DQRider 07-15-18 01:10 PM

Carlton's First Sunday Morning Ride
 
Some of you know that I've been fiddling with this first-generation Raleigh/Carlton Super-Course 3-Speed conversion. I've named it "Carlton" because I name all my bikes, and it seemed to be the most natural sobriquet to use on this build.

Who knew I would find so much trouble keeping rear wheel alignment with these slick, chrome rear dropouts? But the normal anti-rotation nuts I got from Harris Cyclery always crack and fall off, and the other ones I found online work great for preventing axle rotation, but they tend to slide back and forth so I always end up with tire-rub on the chainstays!

This has been a most vexing problem, but I finally zeroed-in on root-cause and corrective action, so that this bike now rides the way I wanted it to all along. Unfortunately, the key to the solution is a plastic doodad that I pilfered from an old Peugeot Versailles, which fits inside the dropout and prevents the non-drive side from sliding backwards, and a Surly "Hurdy-Gurdy" to keep tension on the chain. (no photos yet, sorry) And I know this is not a permanent solution, because as soon as the chain starts to stretch, I'll have to figure out what to do with the non-drive side to keep it in alignment. One idea is to rough-up the chrome dropout on that side and do some fine file work on the A-R nut. That should cause enough friction to keep it in place (I hope...).

But enough of all that, here are some photos from this morning's ride to a local coffee shop called "Amore":

https://i.imgur.com/DFsW9KK.png

https://i.imgur.com/aFmCHKS.png

https://i.imgur.com/vtlsjsG.png

As you can see, and just like Goldilocks in the children's fairy tail, I tried several different parking locations; none of which were "just right". You see, in my rush to get going this morning, I forgot to bring my lock. So I went inside and asked the nice lady behind the counter if I could bring my bike in with me. She said, "Sure, no problem. Just park it against a wall somewhere."

So I did. Then I ordered a blended iced mocha, found a good book on the shelf, and settled in for a nice morning treat:

https://i.imgur.com/CvNXS0p.png

Afterwards, it being Sunday and all, I decided to ride over to the bluffs where I could at least have a nice view of the Cathedral while I meditated on the meaning of life and whether Internal Gear Hubs really are the One True Way to velo-motive happiness.

https://i.imgur.com/vAU8nDm.png

May St. Urmey-Archer bless you all, so that you acquire the wisdom to avoid false neutrals and resist the temptations of the Evil Derailleur.

.

arty dave 07-15-18 04:57 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20449083)
https://i.imgur.com/vAU8nDm.png

May St. Urmey-Archer bless you all, so that you acquire the wisdom to avoid false neutrals and resist the temptations of the Evil Derailleur.

.

For thine is the Pinion, the Pawl and the Pawl Spring, forever and ever, Lubricate. Nice background for your bike!

Nokton 07-15-18 07:09 PM

Picked Up a Pair of 1972 Raleigh Sports
 
I picked up a couple of pretty clean 1972 Raleigh Sports today. They appear to be in pretty good original shape, aside from the saddle on the women's model, and just need basic restoration. The women's model is English made and the men's was made in Malaysia. The men's model has a repainted rear fender and, I think, chain guard. They're both pretty rust free and should, I hope, be pretty straightforward to get on the road.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c63d5ae889.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...af9e965ed3.jpg

BigChief 07-15-18 08:56 PM

I've always liked the burgundy color. Looks pretty on the stepthrough. Nice bikes. Malaysia? That's interesting. Except for the wheels, and that odd rear carrier, it looks like any other early 70s Nottingham Raleigh. Pretty sure Raleigh was still using 32/40 spoked wheels in 72 and for sure they still had Westrick rims.

gster 07-15-18 09:02 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20448765)
Nice day for a ride here today. Heavy overcast but no rain. Been riding the semi scorcher lately. I tend to binge ride different bikes. You're lucky. I don't know a soul that wants old 3 speeds and I really need to start getting rid of a few. It's on my list of things to do.:rolleyes:

You're right. I'm drowning in these things.
I'm going to
Make That Move, Right Now (Baby)

ddeand 07-15-18 09:15 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20449083)
But enough of all that, here are some photos from this morning's ride to a local coffee shop called "Amore":

So, is that the coffee shop up the hill on Annapolis and Smith? Cool shop! Nice bike, that Carlton!

Nokton 07-16-18 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20449757)
I've always liked the burgundy color. Looks pretty on the stepthrough. Nice bikes. Malaysia? That's interesting. Except for the wheels, and that odd rear carrier, it looks like any other early 70s Nottingham Raleigh. Pretty sure Raleigh was still using 32/40 spoked wheels in 72 and for sure they still had Westrick rims.

The Malaysian-made bike also has some gold pinstriping that doesn't, as far as I know, appear on English-built Raleighs.

RobHalligan 07-16-18 06:42 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20437607)
Is the Brooks B17 too narrow for this type of bicycle?

This chart (I think made by Brooks but poached from Amazon) gives some guidance. This is for the Cambium saddles, but I bet one could find a sim one for the B's...Depending on how you ride, have your bike set up, and if you have a B17, give it a try.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b7d8c8ae87.jpg

DQRider 07-16-18 07:06 AM


Originally Posted by ddeand (Post 20449782)

So, is that the coffee shop up the hill on Annapolis and Smith? Cool shop! Nice bike, that Carlton!

Yes, it is. And it would be even better if they had a bike rack outside. But the fact that the lady behind the counter let me park my bike inside scores big points in my book. I'm thinking we should organize a 3-speed ride starting from there...

.

BigChief 07-16-18 08:09 AM

Well, here's why the AW hub had so much trouble falling into false neutrals. Everything is coated with sticky grease and the pawls can barely move even in this hot weather. Might be almost dried up heavy gear oil, not sure, but here's a lesson...Don't use heavy oil or grease anywhere near the pawls. Might not need to make new springs. I'll see how they work once everything is cleaned up.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...286d173439.jpg

BigChief 07-16-18 10:00 AM

Got the hub cleaned up, works fine. But...Now I have a question for someone familiar with these older hubs. I swapped out the threaded driver for a splined one so I could have a choice of cogs. Looks good although I'll have to work out the chain line. My problem is I thought the dust cap behind the threaded cog would just come off when I removed the driver. Silly me. It's stuck tight and I can't see why. Is it threaded on ? Can I pry it off?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...211d5c0e2f.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0fa769ed2f.jpg

BigChief 07-16-18 10:14 AM

Oops, never mind. Looks like I must use the newer style cap with the splined driver. I have a rusty 70s parts hub and the cap fits. I'll use it.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1bb2f06645.jpg

Salubrious 07-16-18 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20444099)
Thanks for the heads up, but I've had that wheel on a bunch of different bikes for quite a while now--so far, so good. We'll see if I need to grab an Uber if it fails in the middle of a long ride.

I figured the same; mine failed for no good reason other than being an FM, and did me the courtesy of locking the wheel. Mark Stonich (bikesmithdesign.com) had a spare hub body but basically said I could have it for $20 if I promised not to use it on an FM. They really are that bad and might be why they are one of the easier 4 speed hubs to find.


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20446927)
As I've gotten older I've noticed hand and wrist discomfort on longer rides so I'm all for discarding any received wisdom in favor of whatever is effective. If your DIY grips work well, great, and they look good, too.

Seat height, angle and setback (or set forward, in the case of slack geometries) plays an enormous role in hand and wrist comfort! Grips can help, but getting the seat right (and not making the mistake of angling the handlebars up at you from the stem) is far more important! The handlebar position is also important; as a general rule of thumb start with the bars at the seat height (or higher) and about 11 degrees down on the handlebar angle.

Nice grips!


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20450220)
Yes, it is. And it would be even better if they had a bike rack outside. But the fact that the lady behind the counter let me park my bike inside scores big points in my book. I'm thinking we should organize a 3-speed ride starting from there...

I'm down for that! We need more three speed action around here- the Lake Pepin tour and the ABCE are not enough!

JohnDThompson 07-16-18 01:30 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20450585)
My problem is I thought the dust cap behind the threaded cog would just come off when I removed the driver. Silly me. It's stuck tight and I can't see why. Is it threaded on ? Can I pry it off?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...211d5c0e2f.jpg

No, you have to un-thread the cog to get it off. To do that, you need to secure the driver and use a chain whip and plenty of leverage to get the cog off. I use a wrench handle I clamp in a bench-mounted vise and then stick the slots of the driver on the handle. Be prepared for a fight. I use a 2' cheater pipe on the chain whip for more leverage, and plenty of penetrating oil.

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/threaded-driver-fix.jpg

DQRider 07-16-18 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20451099)
I'm down for that! We need more three speed action around here- the Lake Pepin tour and the ABCE are not enough!

The only problems with starting from that location are limited parking and the fact that it is at the top of that big hill coming up out of the valley (In my cafe racer days, I used to call it "Ton-Up Hill"). Think Ohio Street, or Simon's Ravine. Whatever ride we plan from that location, if we want to go someplace interesting, has to go down that hill and along the river one way or the other. Otherwise we would just be riding through suburbia in West Saint Paul - Inver Grove - Eagan.

Although I have come up Wabasha street and sort of meandered my way up the hill between Hall and Ohio without tackling the slope head-on, so that's an option. Add the bonus stops of Boca Chica Taco House and the Wabasha Brewery right next door! The only awkward stretch would be connecting the MRT to the Harriet Island leg. But that can't be as bad as some stretches of WI35 and US61 on the LP3ST. (You know I'm getting excited when I start speaking in acronyms!)

Okay, we might need to take this off-line. Can you PM me?

.

Salubrious 07-16-18 03:57 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 20451312)
The only problems with starting from that location are limited parking and the fact that it is at the top of that big hill coming up out of the valley (In my cafe racer days, I used to call it "Ton-Up Hill"). Think Ohio Street, or Simon's Ravine. Whatever ride we plan from that location, if we want to go someplace interesting, has to go down that hill and along the river one way or the other. Otherwise we would just be riding through suburbia in West Saint Paul - Inver Grove - Eagan.

Although I have come up Wabasha street and sort of meandered my way up the hill between Hall and Ohio without tackling the slope head-on, so that's an option. Add the bonus stops of Boca Chica Taco House and the Wabasha Brewery right next door! The only awkward stretch would be connecting the MRT to the Harriet Island leg. But that can't be as bad as some stretches of WI35 and US61 on the LP3ST. (You know I'm getting excited when I start speaking in acronyms!)

Okay, we might need to take this off-line. Can you PM me?

.

I don't recall if Lilydale road is open, but if it is, we can take the MRT to Mendota and from there to Ft Snelling, go down the hill and take the bike path to Minnehaha. Mostly on bike paths so not stressful, the way three speeds are supposed to be. I'd want better ice cream than the DQ though, no offense :)

johnnyspaghetti 07-16-18 04:07 PM


Originally Posted by Nokton (Post 20450170)
The Malaysian-made bike also has some gold pinstriping that doesn't, as far as I know, appear on English-built Raleighs.

I agree it is a pre 1974 crank.


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