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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Ol Danl 09-01-18 03:52 AM

Clubman -- thanks for your response to my question, and for the vote of confidence in the Union hub. I found this thing at an antique store for $10 and thought I'd give it a shot. Been wanting a 3 speed again for some time, and frequently read this thread.

clengman 09-01-18 10:53 AM

My wife has been looking for a good bike path cruiser for a while. I came across this Raleigh sport step through at a garage sale today. For $20 I decided to go for it. It has a shimano 333 hub which doesn't seem to be working, but I should be able to get a used sturmey archer hub and shifter at my favorite bike shop (plug for Bicycle Heaven in Pittsburgh, PA!). Everything else seems to be in really good shape! My wife is very happy. She looks good on it, too.https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b38cc315af.jpg

dweenk 09-01-18 10:59 AM

Step Through Sports near Annapolis
 
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dfa5eb3d60.jpg
https://annapolis.craigslist.org/bik...671738163.html
Seller says 1950's, but is clearly from around 1976. Looks to be in great shape and only $50.

3speedslow 09-01-18 11:09 AM

Sellers are amazing! 1950’s must be some kind of marketing word to entice buyers.

3speedslow 09-01-18 11:11 AM

@Buellster those fenders if aluminium would be a great take off if the bike’s price was low.

BigChief 09-01-18 06:10 PM


Originally Posted by clengman (Post 20541069)
My wife has been looking for a good bike path cruiser for a while. I came across this Raleigh sport step through at a garage sale today. For $20 I decided to go for it. It has a shimano 333 hub which doesn't seem to be working, but I should be able to get a used sturmey archer hub and shifter at my favorite bike shop (plug for Bicycle Heaven in Pittsburgh, PA!). Everything else seems to be in really good shape! My wife is very happy. She looks good on it, too.https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b38cc315af.jpg

That's a fabulous deal at 20 bucks. You might be able to find another good deal on a Raleigh that isn't as pretty as this one, swap the rear wheels and recoup most or maybe all of your money, That way, you'd get your SA hub and matching Raleigh pattern rims.

BigChief 09-02-18 06:50 AM

I've got a question. I need a project that's going to last a while. Mine have been finished too quickly. So, I've decided to build up a brand new Raleigh. A total refinish. One of the things I need to learn is how to paint a white blaze on a rear mudguard. How do I mask it so I get a clean, factory looking edge on the blaze?

clengman 09-02-18 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20541634)
That's a fabulous deal at 20 bucks. You might be able to find another good deal on a Raleigh that isn't as pretty as this one, swap the rear wheels and recoup most or maybe all of your money, That way, you'd get your SA hub and matching Raleigh pattern rims.

That's a good thought. I looked on Craigslist and found a few Raleigh sports, but all were in pretty nice rideable condition and were going for around $150.

I didn't even notice until you mentioned it that the rims were not matching, but I guess it makes sense since that shimano hub is definitely not original equipment.

I should be able to find an AW hub at bicycle heaven for a good price. Then a set of spokes and a couple tires and I should be good to go.

Buellster 09-03-18 01:50 PM

So I'm looking to change out the cranks on my sports. I am hoping to convert to a newer style of cranks as opposed to the original cotters.
I ride the bike a lot and dealing with cotters is pricey and frustrating.
my super course had the cranks converted by the previous owner. It looks like the PO used the original cups and a spindle labeled 5S☆. I am wondering if I could use a similar spindle and keep the standard cups?
any good suggestions for a place to find such a part?
thanks!

clubman 09-03-18 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by Buellster (Post 20544600)
So I'm looking to change out the cranks on my sports. I am hoping to convert to a newer style of cranks as opposed to the original cotters.
I ride the bike a lot and dealing with cotters is pricey and frustrating.
my super course had the cranks converted by the previous owner. It looks like the PO used the original cups and a spindle labeled 5S☆. I am wondering if I could use a similar spindle and keep the standard cups?
any good suggestions for a place to find such a part?
thanks!

It shouldn't be difficult. One problem I've had is some spindles can bind in the Raleigh cup openings. A round file and Dremel can relieve the edges easy enough.

I've never found cotter cranks to be expensive to maintain as long as you do them yourself, use good cotters, bearings, grease and you have a cotter press. When done properly, they can last a decade.

Buellster 09-03-18 05:11 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20544726)
It shouldn't be difficult. One problem I've had is some spindles can bind in the Raleigh cup openings. A round file and Dremel can relieve the edges easy enough.

I've never found cotter cranks to be expensive to maintain as long as you do them yourself, use good cotters, bearings, grease and you have a cotter press. When done properly, they can last a decade.

I just dont have the tools. My LBS charges like 50 or 60 bucks to do a repacking but they told me the price regularly gets up to 80 if they encounter issues.
I figured if I pulled the spindle and the cups I could find a non cottered spindle that matched and fit?

clubman 09-03-18 06:01 PM

Fair enough, I haven't used an lbs for anything other than consumables in the last ten years and I've got sticker shock at those quotes.

Don't even try to pull the fixed cup. It's 26 tpi and not compatible with almost all other BB's. You're on the right track with an axle swap using original cups.

thumpism 09-03-18 06:17 PM

That's a beauty, and it's much nicer than either of my ladies' Sportses (which, admittedly, were free). And it's a 23" frame.

Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20541071)
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dfa5eb3d60.jpg
https://annapolis.craigslist.org/bik...671738163.html
Seller says 1950's, but is clearly from around 1976. Looks to be in great shape and only $50.


BigChief 09-03-18 06:21 PM

To me it seems like much more trouble and expense to convert the BB and replace the crank than it would to just service the existing crank. Besides, the heron crank is an important to the aesthetics of these vintage roadsters. A cotter press is $59 from Bikesmith and is an excellent quality tool. The only issue that could come up is if the cotter starts to bend before it breaks loose. This does happen, but for me it has been very rare. I've rebuilt many old Raleigh BBs and I'll say that 19 times out of 20, the press will pop the cotters loose and they'll be reusable. I do always remove the cotter nuts and washers a couple days before I plan on the rebuild and fill the wells around the threads with penetrating oil. In all these years I have only had to resort to plan B twice. Although I have had instances where the cotter broke free but bent slightly and didn't fall all the way out so I had to drive it through with a punch. Then I needed to replace the cotter. Again, Bikesmith is the place to go for Raleigh cotters.
edit...It's nice to have the spanners for the adjustable cup and lock ring, but you can get by fine with a hammer, punch and channel lock pliers. And a chopstick and rag works well for cleaning the still attached fixed cup.

New Crank Cotter Press

Ol Danl 09-04-18 04:33 AM

I've bought a 5S spindle recently from Husky bicycles for $5 or so. They seem to be one of the most common 5 series lengths available. Also found 5N and 5J on ebay (new). The problem is finding which replacement crankset has the appropriate profile to work with an available 5 series spindle. Finally got a triple crankset to work with a 5N spindle in a Raleigh Record frame, but this was after trying a couple of cranksets that wouldn't work with anything available.

DQRider 09-04-18 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20545948)
Does anyone sell cheap built 26x1-3/8 alloy wheels?

I have found only steel wheels.

Harris Cyclery has them with CR18 alloy rims: https://www.harriscyclery.net/produc...91/?rb_ct=1437

.

BigChief 09-04-18 02:20 PM

You could save some money with one of these steel hub/ alloy rim Sta-Trus . I have one on my scorcher. It is a step down from the CR-18 from Harris but it is a decent wheel and it is actually very well trued.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sta-Tru-26x...cAAOSwoPtbEXuI

desconhecido 09-04-18 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20546852)
Interesting...I saw that on bikewagen website and it's $10 cheaper shipping. But on the bikewagen website, it states alloy but the picture shows a shiny rim. If the rim is shiny, is it really alloy? If it is indeed shiny alloy...does it brake as good as dull alloy rims?

I've bought from Bikewagon and as far as my experience goes, they are reputable. Selling a steel rim advertised as alloy -- I doubt that they would do that, but who knows. If you are concerned, call them and ask what rim they use. At the same time, ask about the diameter of the axle and make sure that it will fit the dropouts on the intended bike -- probably will, but if it's a Raleigh, I'd measure just to make sure.

As for shiny alloy and braking, it's not a problem. The CR18 rims in that size are all polished, as far as I know, and they brake just fine.

Either the Bikewagon wheel or the Harris wheel seem like real good deals to me. If you were to build it yourself, a CR18 rim will cost you $25 to $35 and 36 spokes with nipples is probably $15 to $25 or more, dpending on where you get your spokes. In either event, if you buy one of these wheels, get yourself a decent spoke wrench in the right size, if you don't already have one, because you'll proably have to touch up the spokes after a ride or two.

JohnDThompson 09-04-18 05:35 PM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20546852)
Interesting...I saw that on bikewagen website and it's $10 cheaper shipping. But on the bikewagen website, it states alloy but the picture shows a shiny rim. If the rim is shiny, is it really alloy? If it is indeed shiny alloy...does it brake as good as dull alloy rims?

Yes, polished aluminum rims are/were a common option. And yes, they do brake perfectly well. Many years ago, I replaced the chromed steel rims on my Superbe with polished aluminum CR-18 rims, and the improvement in braking was substantial. The dull finish on some aluminum rims is often an anodized finish, which is quickly abraded off the brake track by the brake pads, leaving a surface identical to that found on the brake track of a polished aluminum rim.

BigChief 09-04-18 06:19 PM


Originally Posted by mtb_addict (Post 20546852)
Interesting...I saw that on bikewagen website and it's $10 cheaper shipping. But on the bikewagen website, it states alloy but the picture shows a shiny rim. If the rim is shiny, is it really alloy? If it is indeed shiny alloy...does it brake as good as dull alloy rims?

I have one on my customized Rudge. It is an aluminum rim. The hub is steel with that modern chrome that you see these days. I can vouch for it. It's a good wheel for the price and whoever laced it up did a good job. Here it is on my Rudge. I'm also using Tektro R559 brakes.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ff62777643.jpg

thumpism 09-04-18 07:09 PM

The local co-op moved and I went to the new location. A step down from the previous place and I hope they survive. There's a dumpster out back with detritus from the move. I may have to go diving.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8f1d3aefad.jpg

How it looked at the old place.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...70c58be73c.jpg

Velo Mule 09-04-18 07:38 PM

A dl-1 with one crank arm and missing the seat stays. Well, at least the price is right. It could be a project. Any 28" wheels in there? Fenders?

I see that you already have a DL-1 so, that frees you up to get creative. The seat stays can be fabricated. This can even be a point of creativity. Polished Aluminum perhaps?

Did you grab it? Is this a project for you then? If so, keep us up to date on the plans and how things are going.

BigChief 09-04-18 09:27 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 20547169)
The local co-op moved and I went to the new location. A step down from the previous place and I hope they survive. There's a dumpster out back with detritus from the move. I may have to go diving.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8f1d3aefad.jpg

How it looked at the old place.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...70c58be73c.jpg

I have a chainguard and a non Raleigh 28" rear fender that would fit. I also have a roll of heavy galvanized wire that chainstays could be made from.

desconhecido 09-04-18 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20547068)
I have one on my customized Rudge. It is an aluminum rim. The hub is steel with that modern chrome that you see these days. I can vouch for it. It's a good wheel for the price and whoever laced it up did a good job. Here it is on my Rudge. I'm also using Tektro R559 brakes.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ff62777643.jpg

I was thinking that the axle diameter was the goofy thing about Raleigh forks that might cause a problem, but reflecting on it, I think it's the OLD that can be a problem. The Raleigh Sports bikes were spaced for 90 mm OLD (or about that) and most hubs are about 100 mm. I put a modern Shimano generator hub on a Sports some years ago and it was not an easy fit to get that sucker in there. Is the Rudge spaced for 90 mm, like the Raleighs and was the hub compatible?

jamesj 09-04-18 11:07 PM

Hello all,

So I finally forked over the cash for a BIKESMITH press I'm overhauling the bottom bracket on my 1979 Sport. First cotter pin was tight and ended up bending and needing to be punched out a bit, second one came out perfect.

Cleaning the parts tonight, tomorrow I'm going to repack it.

My question is this, when adjusting the bottom bracket how smooth should it be? I know I should adjust for no binding and no play, I'm sure it will not be super smooth like a modern bottom bracket when spinning. The reason I ask is on the Superbe I have, when I repacked that bottom bracket it didn't spin super smooth, it would bind in some places. I made sure to check the bottom bracket on the 1980 Sport and it was also not smooth, im sure that was because the grease was old.

So any help would be appreciated.

BigChief 09-05-18 04:51 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20547542)
I was thinking that the axle diameter was the goofy thing about Raleigh forks that might cause a problem, but reflecting on it, I think it's the OLD that can be a problem. The Raleigh Sports bikes were spaced for 90 mm OLD (or about that) and most hubs are about 100 mm. I put a modern Shimano generator hub on a Sports some years ago and it was not an easy fit to get that sucker in there. Is the Rudge spaced for 90 mm, like the Raleighs and was the hub compatible?

I've found many Raleigh forks to be too tight even on original hubs. Sometimes, it can be a real battle just to remove the front wheel. I cold set the fork whenever I one of these situations comes up so I'm used to fitting Raleigh forks to hubs. This Rudge has some unknown to me non Raleigh fork. It came to me with a Schwinn 597 front wheel. That's why I needed a replacement. It's not hard to adjust these forks. All you need is a threaded rod that fits the fork dropouts, a couple nuts and washers.

BigChief 09-05-18 05:15 AM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 20547554)
Hello all,

So I finally forked over the cash for a BIKESMITH press I'm overhauling the bottom bracket on my 1979 Sport. First cotter pin was tight and ended up bending and needing to be punched out a bit, second one came out perfect.

Cleaning the parts tonight, tomorrow I'm going to repack it.

My question is this, when adjusting the bottom bracket how smooth should it be? I know I should adjust for no binding and no play, I'm sure it will not be super smooth like a modern bottom bracket when spinning. The reason I ask is on the Superbe I have, when I repacked that bottom bracket it didn't spin super smooth, it would bind in some places. I made sure to check the bottom bracket on the 1980 Sport and it was also not smooth, im sure that was because the grease was old.

So any help would be appreciated.

These cranks can and should be just as smooth as a modern crank. What I've found is that even though the 1/4" ball bearings might look fine, the crank can feel rough if you reuse them. Try a new set of grade 25 1/4" bearings. On some newer Raleighs, they use a plastic cage with, I think 7 bearings. I never saw the sense in this. There's a lot of stress on these and it seems to me that the original 11 loose bearings would be far better. It's not difficult to load them. The grease holds them on the spindle while I carefully thread the spindle through the fixed cup hole.

gster 09-05-18 06:11 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20545061)
To me it seems like much more trouble and expense to convert the BB and replace the crank than it would to just service the existing crank. Besides, the heron crank is an important to the aesthetics of these vintage roadsters. A cotter press is $59 from Bikesmith and is an excellent quality tool. The only issue that could come up is if the cotter starts to bend before it breaks loose. This does happen, but for me it has been very rare. I've rebuilt many old Raleigh BBs and I'll say that 19 times out of 20, the press will pop the cotters loose and they'll be reusable. I do always remove the cotter nuts and washers a couple days before I plan on the rebuild and fill the wells around the threads with penetrating oil. In all these years I have only had to resort to plan B twice. Although I have had instances where the cotter broke free but bent slightly and didn't fall all the way out so I had to drive it through with a punch. Then I needed to replace the cotter. Again, Bikesmith is the place to go for Raleigh cotters.
edit...It's nice to have the spanners for the adjustable cup and lock ring, but you can get by fine with a hammer, punch and channel lock pliers. And a chopstick and rag works well for cleaning the still attached fixed cup.

New Crank Cotter Press

I concur!

clengman 09-05-18 08:09 AM

I'm planning to make one of these:


Looks pretty straightforward and about 1/10 the price of the tool from Bikesmith.

BigChief 09-05-18 09:46 AM

Here's a good looking late 50s 21" Sports near Beantown at a reasonable asking price. Even has a usable looking non-orginal leather saddle.
https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/bi...687976698.html


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