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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

dirtman 01-14-21 03:38 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21876962)


Looks to me like it sat in a chicken coop under the roost for the last 50 years, or its the catch of the day after a bad day fishing down at the river. The front fender is rusted completely through, not quite 'surface rust'. I don't think I'd even bother to have brought that one home in that shape.
I had found a Schwinn 'Spitfire' that said made in England on it years ago, it was stored in a barn loft. It had been up there since the late 50's or so. (Hub was dated 1952). It was completely covered in chicken droppings, rust, and dirt. The guy said take it if you can get it down in one piece.
I tied a rope on it and lowered it to the ground and threw it in the truck. After a good wash, the only think I managed to save for parts was the rear hub innards. The chainguard and fenders had rusted through in spots, the frame had deep rusty spots that had swollen up from freezing, the saddle springs were both rusty and broke into bits, something had chewed on the saddle, and both fenders were rusted through on top. Both rims were missing about 10" at the bottom where they sat for years in the build up of of chicken manure.
Even the headbadge was corroded away, it all but fell apart when I tried to remove it. It looked to be a run of the mill Norman or Armstrong type model rebadged as a Schwinn.
Its too bad because I've never seen another one since.

SirMike1983 01-14-21 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by oldspokes (Post 21874608)
Looks like the Schwinn Typhoon I had as a kid. Nearly identical. The one I owned back then was trash picked in the early 70's. In similar condition. I used it to deliver news papers for years. One telltale of an earlier model is the chainring, the 70's models came with a 'mag' style chainring vs. the four circles on this one.
The Typhoon was the bottom of the middleweight lineup but there really wasn't much difference between the various models besides racks, tanks, or decals.
I've got a late 50's Schwinn American frameset hanging in the garage right now, I picked it up at an auction about 20 years ago with the intention of finding the rest of it but I've never come across a good set of wheels.
I seem to remember the middle weight boy's models were Typhoon, American, Jaguar, Corvette, Panther, Spitfire, and Heavy Duti.

These are neat bikes and an interesting concept of a little bit heavier-duty 3-speed. They're kind of the forerunner to today's hybrid bikes, but they're somewhat hampered by the undersized cantilever frames. They're quite heavy by today's standards, but the old single-speed ballooners of earlier times were even heavier, so they were considered "middleweights". If the frame will fit you, they're nice if you're going down stony dirt paths and the like (a little heavy, but they're steady over dirt and loose stones). The flat blade forks are generally OK, but be aware that they do flex a bit more side-to-side, at least if you're used to a Raleigh type thimble fork.

The Schwinn radiant red is a potent color and was also available on the diamond frame Schwinn 3-speeds. I finished off a radiant red Schwinn Racer project last summer.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-If_HF1Pqe...908_180459.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WUWotfTpi...25_180251.jpgp

Unca_Sam 01-14-21 10:03 AM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 21876677)
Mine uses what looks like a hollow rivet with a domed head. They're split on the inside in 6 fingers. One rivet is broken, only the outer cap still remains, the other 9 are still there but really rusty.
The rest of the saddle is decent but there's a gouge in the top of the white front area. I have a huge commercial sewing machine in the basement that I can use to make a new seat cover, it may take some learning to use but it came with the house. The former owner used it for leather upholstery.

I tried to pry back each 'finger' of the original rivets but they snap off the instant I try to bend them. The one rivet is rusted through on the dome a bit too.
A fresh set of rivets on this and a new seat cover may make the seat too good for this ride. Most of the bikes I've looked at have had this same saddle, this is the first one that's not been physically broken. It seems for some reason everyone is broken in half, front to rear, near where the white and black vinyl meet. I'm not sure what causes a steel seat pan to just break in half there but so far I've seen at least a dozen broken the same way, plus one Sprite with a plastic or fiber base that was broke the same way too.

I did stop at one tack shop here to ask about rivets but all they had were brass and black steel rivets, no chrome. The rivets they had were similar to the originals but with solid heads. They also had a tubular type rivet that used a rear ring vs. just split fingers. Kind of like a blind grommet.
I suspect that some of those saddles used 12 rivets, as they had a riveted on rear badge vs. just having the Wright name printed right on the back. I looked at a 23" Robin Hood the other day that had the badge, but that saddle was broken in the middle like so many other's I've seen.

I'm not sure how a saddle constructed like mine would snap the seat pan between the nose and the rear absent severe rust. I suppose it's possible that the seam in two-tone saddle allows water to accumulate at that point and the open cell foam padding held it there. I'd agree that fabricating a new cover is unlikely to be economical in any sense, but you may be able to repair the gouge with an adhesive or a backer and adhesive if it's through the woven support. I'm imagining that your gouge still has the vinyl hanging on, if it's missing entirely, then you'd be better off continuing the search for a donor cover.

Let me know if you want the rivets.

dweenk 01-14-21 12:34 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21876962)

I wager that the only components that are borderline functional on the 3 speed are the S/A trigger and the S/A hub.

barnfind 01-14-21 01:56 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 21877586)
I'm not sure how a saddle constructed like mine would snap the seat pan between the nose and the rear absent severe rust. I suppose it's possible that the seam in two-tone saddle allows water to accumulate at that point and the open cell foam padding held it there. I'd agree that fabricating a new cover is unlikely to be economical in any sense, but you may be able to repair the gouge with an adhesive or a backer and adhesive if it's through the woven support. I'm imagining that your gouge still has the vinyl hanging on, if it's missing entirely, then you'd be better off continuing the search for a donor cover.

Let me know if you want the rivets.

I've seen three versions of those two tone vinyl saddles, one has a metal pan, one has a plastic pan, and the third, older version has just springs and horsehair.
I've seen all three fail at the seam. The metal pan tends to crack between the left and right middle rivet holes right across the top slightly behind the seam in the vinyl. I've only found them long after they failed so I can't say whether the vinyl cracked first or because of the metal cracking. After 50+ years its hard to tell.

markk900 01-14-21 03:02 PM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 21877165)
Can't give a ladies model away around here, we call them donor bikes.
The problem at $180 there's no money left for a flipper either, the saddle and wheels are the main value but only if they're perfect.

Also, why on earth do so many people list a bike like that and not bother to at least pump up the tires and wipe down the chrome?
The paint looks like someone just waxed it, scratches and all, but the handle bars and rims are dingy looking and the tires look like they're flat. If your going to ask $180 for a ladies bike, at least make it rideable when someone looks at it.

Regardless of the shiny paint and the flat tires, the bike has a 'well used' look about it for some reason. The saddle don't look right, I don't think I've ever run across an early 70's ladies sports with a Brooks leather saddle on it, the paint is scraped up pretty good all over, and the rear rim has some funny spots that show up in the front angle pic in the ad. It makes me think they positioned the rusty spots on the rim up high where they won't show in the pic. It could just be a reflection though but after looking at a bunch of bikes recently I've seen all sorts of tricks to hide defects in the ad pics. Its in better shape than most but I don't see $180 there.
Its too bad they want to much for it because I know where there's a minty clean brown men's frame that would convert that to a nice bike if the wheels are good.

I bought an identical model to this (including the self-adjusting brakes) for my sister for $60 CAD - It was all original and it only needed a cleaning, lube and air in the tires. I can confirm that it did NOT have that lovely Brooks saddle.....

oldspokes 01-14-21 05:46 PM

I bought a ladies model Sports with Endrick wheels at a fleamarket over the summer for $40US, the wheels were good but the bearings all had to be gone through. The grease had all but petrified over the years. The guy swore up and down it had the original tires on it but I don't remember them coming with 'CST' branded tires back then. They were rotted enough to be that old but not original.
The chrome on that bike looked like brand new. I stripped it down, hung the frame in the garage and built up a clean old Robin Hood men's frame I had gotten a few years earlier. I listed the rather clean ladies frame on CL all summer for $20 but didn't get so much as an offer on it. I pulled the headbadge and hung up the fork for future use and tossed the frame. The bike had been bought new in Montana and somehow made its way to PA. The guy who had it said he had sold the matching men's model that morning for $300 but no one even looked at the ladies bike. I fully agree, they're basically just donor bikes, usually with decent wheels so long as they didn't come from the shore areas or the bottom of the local pond.
I've been messing with old three speed bikes for 40 years, in all that time, I think I've had one ladies bike with a leather saddle, and that bike was from the 30's. I had two road bikes with Brooks saddles, but never found a Sports with one. I've probably had 30 Sports models over the years, and three times that many 'other' brands from England.
I only buy them when their my size and cheap, with the thought that any 50+ year old bike is going to need a lot of work, whether its cleaning or a full overhaul, it all takes time, and money in most cases.

oldspokes 01-14-21 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 21877865)
I wager that the only components that are borderline functional on the 3 speed are the S/A trigger and the S/A hub.

The saddle may be a surprise, all that dirt may have protected it to some degree. I had a B17 that came from a barn found Carlton a few years ago, the bike was covered top to bottom in bird droppings, the tires had fallen off the rims leaving nothing but the fuzzy casings behind, and the rims were both rusted through all around the outermost edges. The BB, both hubs, and headset were all frozen solid.
I pulled the thing apart more out of curiosity than anything else, the frame was shot, it had major rust inside, mostly from mice living in it, the wheels were junk, the steel bearing races in the hubs were pitted badly, the skewers both broke off during removal. The handle bars were rusty, the stem cleaned up, but it wasn't anything I'd reuse, the seat post was badly rusted into the frame. The saddle came off, got soaked in Evapo-Rust, the chrome rails cleaned right up, and a good cleaning and coat of Proofride made it look almost new. The layer of field dust protected the seat from the bird droppings. The only other part I saved was the headbadge. Its still on my older Super Course today. I gave it to a guy who collects old bikes, he made a mailbox post out of the rest of the bike.

2fat2fly 01-15-21 02:08 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 21876839)
Mine 1979 Canadian DL1 came with a plated steel tube rack. I could not save the chrome and give it a coat of black. It sort of suits the somber solid looks of the bike. I agree with them being a "beast". Good description.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2cbf2ae5db.jpg

I like how the black looks on that rack, it looks like the same rack I took off the Dunelt I've been working on.
What did you do to smooth out the bad chrome?
The chrome on mine is pitted and peeling. It has the texture of 30 grit sandpaper.
I soaked it in Evapo Rust but the chrome is gone.
On mine, someone had made crude extensions to make the drop arms reach the dropouts, if I can make this thing look presentable,
maybe I'll see about finding or making some round clamps like on yours and put it back on. If not on this one, on something else down the road.

2fat2fly 01-15-21 02:38 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 21878151)
I bought an identical model to this (including the self-adjusting brakes) for my sister for $60 CAD - It was all original and it only needed a cleaning, lube and air in the tires. I can confirm that it did NOT have that lovely Brooks saddle.....

I looked at four ladies models in hopes of finding a good used set of rims, two were ladies Hercules models, one a men's Robin Hood, and one 21" Raleigh LTD, all were cheap but not a one had a decent set of wheels. The best was the first Hercules, but the rims had big time chrome loss and pitting in one area, as if it sat in the dirt for a long time with flats. The guy had scrubbed up all the chrome to make it shiny for the pic but kept the bad spots hidden or shaded in the pics. The bike was rusted bad enough in a few spots I wouldn't consider it fixable. All that I looked at were between $40 and $100, but not a one was worth bringing home even for parts. Out of the four, one may have had a decent crankset.
I'm starting to think there aren't any good rims left around these parts.
I was thinking about that clean Hercules for $250 on CL, when I went looking for it, it was gone, so i suspect someone got it by now.
Two of the four I looked at last night are no longer listed. Someone felt it was worth while to deal with rusty rims and pitted chrome.

I really find it hard to believe that with as many of these bikes that were built, no one has started to reproduce 32/40h Dunlop (Endrick) rims by now. There surely is a demand for them so long as they weren't too expensive.
I do remember complaining back in the late 70's when I had to buy a new Raleigh Sports front wheel, tire and tube, someone swiped the front wheel on me one day and I needed to match one up. My choices were some cheap American replacement rim for $9.99, or a Raleigh original for $12.99. With the tire, tube, and new wheel I didn't break a $20 bill, but that was a good chunk of my pay check back then. Bike shops now don't sell wheels, your lucky around here if they even stock tires or tubes for the bikes they sell.
I noticed yesterday that Walmart here eliminated the bike parts section. They just sell bikes, no parts now. The woman putting action figures on the shelf there said they dropped bike parts due to lack of sales. The bike racks were full of all sorts of junky looking pink, cream color, and baby blue beach cruisers and tiny kids bikes. Nothing with gears.

markk900 01-15-21 05:58 AM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 21878828)
I noticed yesterday that Walmart here eliminated the bike parts section. They just sell bikes, no parts now. The woman putting action figures on the shelf there said they dropped bike parts due to lack of sales.

Sadly for Canadians, this appears to be true at Canadian Tire (which in spite of its name was likely the #1 choice for people getting their first, second and even third bikes for decades - I had never seen a dedicated bike shop until my later teens)..... When I was a kid the catalog had several pages of accessories and the parts supplies were plentiful, the bikes were made in England, France or Canada; in the last few years the bikes are not much different than Wally World, and the parts section has gotten to be a smaller and smaller section of the store. Which is a pain because many LBS's are closed here Sunday's so when you need a tire or a tube or a spoke or a cable on one of the prime riding days you haven't much choice (and frankly those consumables were cheaper at Crappy Tire than anywhere else including online). So I stock up whenever they have supply.....(then forget I have a supply stashed away!).

Unca_Sam 01-15-21 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 21878828)
I looked at four ladies models in hopes of finding a good used set of rims, two were ladies Hercules models, one a men's Robin Hood, and one 21" Raleigh LTD, all were cheap but not a one had a decent set of wheels. The best was the first Hercules, but the rims had big time chrome loss and pitting in one area, as if it sat in the dirt for a long time with flats. The guy had scrubbed up all the chrome to make it shiny for the pic but kept the bad spots hidden or shaded in the pics. The bike was rusted bad enough in a few spots I wouldn't consider it fixable. All that I looked at were between $40 and $100, but not a one was worth bringing home even for parts. Out of the four, one may have had a decent crankset.
I'm starting to think there aren't any good rims left around these parts.
I was thinking about that clean Hercules for $250 on CL, when I went looking for it, it was gone, so i suspect someone got it by now.
Two of the four I looked at last night are no longer listed. Someone felt it was worth while to deal with rusty rims and pitted chrome.

I really find it hard to believe that with as many of these bikes that were built, no one has started to reproduce 32/40h Dunlop (Endrick) rims by now. There surely is a demand for them so long as they weren't too expensive.
I do remember complaining back in the late 70's when I had to buy a new Raleigh Sports front wheel, tire and tube, someone swiped the front wheel on me one day and I needed to match one up. My choices were some cheap American replacement rim for $9.99, or a Raleigh original for $12.99. With the tire, tube, and new wheel I didn't break a $20 bill, but that was a good chunk of my pay check back then. Bike shops now don't sell wheels, your lucky around here if they even stock tires or tubes for the bikes they sell.
I noticed yesterday that Walmart here eliminated the bike parts section. They just sell bikes, no parts now. The woman putting action figures on the shelf there said they dropped bike parts due to lack of sales. The bike racks were full of all sorts of junky looking pink, cream color, and baby blue beach cruisers and tiny kids bikes. Nothing with gears.

I think it's very likely uneconomical to produce chromed steel rims in ISO 590 or 597 for anything less then what they charge for them now, when they're available. I have the same problem with the original wheelset on the Hercules I just finished; too much chrome loss and pitting on the rims, plus a bad front bearing. Had the bearing been good, I might have finished clearing the rust and flaking chrome with the dremel wire brush, and still ridden on them (with junk brake pads). If the rust kept coming, I'd likely eventually paint them. Luckily, there was the set of wheels I'm using at the co-op. If you have a bike kitchen or a co-op near you, I recommend you check there for parts.
I still want to unlace the wheel to salvage the SA AW hub from 1960, but you're right that finding a 40* rim in ISO 590 size is difficult. I know that there was a pair of tandem rims at the co op drilled for 40* and 36*, but I'd have to find a 5 speed frame and an AW hub with the longer axle for parts. It'd be easier to just sell the hub. rather than invest that kind of money into an oddball bike, probably on a Hi-Ten frame without much intrinsic value on its own. Although...the guys at the Co-Op might get a kick out of that kind of project...

Salubrious 01-15-21 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 21879043)
I still want to unlace the wheel to salvage the SA AW hub from 1960, but you're right that finding a 40* rim in ISO 590 size is difficult. I know that there was a pair of tandem rims at the co op drilled for 40* and 36*, but I'd have to find a 5 speed frame and an AW hub with the longer axle for parts. It'd be easier to just sell the hub. rather than invest that kind of money into an oddball bike, probably on a Hi-Ten frame without much intrinsic value on its own. Although...the guys at the Co-Op might get a kick out of that kind of project...

A few pages back some alloy 650A rims made in the UK were recommended to me. I bought a pair (shipped to the US) and I think I spent about $100.00 total. Nice rims too- I like them better than the Sun CR18 rims as they are a few millimeters wider and seem to have a better finish. The wider size will work better with the stock brakes.

gster 01-15-21 12:56 PM

Buyers Remorse
My own fault as I should have been more thorough.
Front forks are askew, pushed to one side but I reefed on them by hand
and they're better.
Handlebars are also a bit off but will need a vice and a pipe to correct.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...788123f647.jpg
Cranks have been aligned and the seat clamp reversed.
There's another one in town, a non rider on display at a book shop.
I may ask the owner to give it me to make one good bike and then
give it to him when I leave..
At least it's a project......

michaelcummings 01-15-21 01:05 PM

More Rusty Chains
 

Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 21876658)
The chain freed up pretty easily.

Not starting an argument, we all do what we think best.

In my case, the rust had already started a stress fracture, so cleaning up the rust didn't help.
My chain worked fine, until I stood up on the pedals and pushed down hard.

Just before the chain broke, my foot was standing on the pedal.
A moment later, that foot was planted on the ground while the bike and the rest of my body continued onward.

It was not a controlled landing.

I was in pain and at risk of never having children :eek:

Anyhow, that is my $.02 about why I hate rusty chains.

browngw 01-15-21 01:17 PM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 21878823)
I like how the black looks on that rack, it looks like the same rack I took off the Dunelt I've been working on.
What did you do to smooth out the bad chrome?
The chrome on mine is pitted and peeling. It has the texture of 30 grit sandpaper.
I soaked it in Evapo Rust but the chrome is gone.
On mine, someone had made crude extensions to make the drop arms reach the dropouts, if I can make this thing look presentable,
maybe I'll see about finding or making some round clamps like on yours and put it back on. If not on this one, on something else down the road.

I soaked it in strong cleaning vinegar for a week to remove most of the rust. Seeing the shape it was in, I aggressively sanded with a flapper wheel and by hand. I did not try for a super smooth like new finish. Then it got two coats of spray Krylon black. It has a somewhat" pebbly" finish in places but acceptable for an old bike.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0a6eb12694.jpg
Dragging the bike home.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ce2533d81e.jpg
Sir Wayes A. Tonne as purchased
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...dd565f4a33.jpg
Needs some work.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...21804942a0.jpg
After vinegar cleanse. Might as well just stated with sanding.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...296bc9921b.jpg
After paint, awaiting assembly
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...85b0ee1ae3.jpg
Not smooth but has saddle bags on it most of the time anyway.

markk900 01-15-21 01:41 PM

browngw Your restorative work always leaves me amazed - I have seen some of your bikes in person and they always look fantastic.

browngw 01-15-21 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 21879541)
browngw Your restorative work always leaves me amazed - I have seen some of your bikes in person and they always look fantastic.

Thanks for the kind words markk900 . I can spend weeks, months even years on some bikes and not tire of the process. The last really time consuming resto was this 1972 CCM that belonged to a late friend. Hopefully when the Canadian Vintage Bicycle Show gets back under way, I can show it and others. On this one I even learned how to repair Bluemels mudguards.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...77b95d5d51.jpg

gster 01-15-21 04:28 PM


Originally Posted by michaelcummings (Post 21879472)
Not starting an argument, we all do what we think best.

In my case, the rust had already started a stress fracture, so cleaning up the rust didn't help.
My chain worked fine, until I stood up on the pedals and pushed down hard.

Just before the chain broke, my foot was standing on the pedal.
A moment later, that foot was planted on the ground while the bike and the rest of my body continued onward.

It was not a controlled landing.

I was in pain and at risk of never having children :eek:

Anyhow, that is my $.02 about why I hate rusty chains.

Good name for a band....

2fat2fly 01-15-21 06:51 PM

Looks like the same rack

After cleaning, the chrome is pitted and peeling all over, I soaked it in Evapo-rust first, over night, but it still had lots of rust. I got impatient and soaked it in 20% hydroflouric acid, (old school wire wheel cleaner).
Some filler primer and some black paint is likely the only option
Does anyone know if these were English made? I was sort of thinking they were just a cheap all purpose rack?
I've seen a few though and all were on English bikes.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d415b20ee.jpg
As found



https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b5d7e8701c.jpg
After soaking in Hydroflouric acid for 20 minutes

2fat2fly 01-15-21 09:45 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 21879043)
I think it's very likely uneconomical to produce chromed steel rims in ISO 590 or 597 for anything less then what they charge for them now, when they're available. I have the same problem with the original wheelset on the Hercules I just finished; too much chrome loss and pitting on the rims, plus a bad front bearing. Had the bearing been good, I might have finished clearing the rust and flaking chrome with the dremel wire brush, and still ridden on them (with junk brake pads). If the rust kept coming, I'd likely eventually paint them. Luckily, there was the set of wheels I'm using at the co-op. If you have a bike kitchen or a co-op near you, I recommend you check there for parts.
I still want to unlace the wheel to salvage the SA AW hub from 1960, but you're right that finding a 40* rim in ISO 590 size is difficult. I know that there was a pair of tandem rims at the co op drilled for 40* and 36*, but I'd have to find a 5 speed frame and an AW hub with the longer axle for parts. It'd be easier to just sell the hub. rather than invest that kind of money into an oddball bike, probably on a Hi-Ten frame without much intrinsic value on its own. Although...the guys at the Co-Op might get a kick out of that kind of project...

The problem is I don't see any available now, at least not in 32/40h. The local shops don't sell parts, none seem to these days, and the one's I see listed online are cheap Chinese steel rims in 36h. I've spoke to a few old bike shops via email and I can muster up a few pairs of vintage 36h rims but their made in Italy and a bit wider.
The only 32 and 40h rims I've seen have been overseas and extremely expensive. Most have been Sturmey Archer branded so they're not correct for an older model bike.

The few new steel replacement rims I've seen have been not much better than department store grade at best.

dirtman 01-16-21 06:15 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21879451)
Buyers Remorse
My own fault as I should have been more thorough.
Front forks are askew, pushed to one side but I reefed on them by hand
and they're better.
Handlebars are also a bit off but will need a vice and a pipe to correct.
<pic>
Cranks have been aligned and the seat clamp reversed.
There's another one in town, a non rider on display at a book shop.
I may ask the owner to give it me to make one good bike and then
give it to him when I leave..
At least it's a project......

I was sort of thinking that thing look a bit rough, the painted chrome and Chinese saddle gave me a bad impression of it. . It had he looks of something that was thrown together just to flip. The bent forks and bars sound like it was something that was laying in some yard somewhere getting walked on before being put back together.

I picked up a ladies Raleigh Sports for $40 a while back, the bike rode great, but I bought it for parts.
I actually rode the bike for a mile or two before coming back and stripping it. I needed the fork, cg, and wheels for a men's frame I had here. Before mounting up the fork, I put it in the gauge and both blades were an inch off to the left and the left fork was back 1/4". Yet the bike rode fine like that. I straightened the fork, put the bike together and all was fine. The parts bike looked decent, the bent fork wasn't at all obvious. I used the wheels, forks, and cg from the ladies bike, plus swapped over the Prestube rear rack. The guy who sold me the parts bike said it had been used in the city when his wife was in college years ago, so it likely got some abuse while being parked in the bike rack. A good solid kick is all it takes. I had a Schwinn that came to me with a fork bent off to one side years ago, when I straightened the fork, the bike pulled hard to the left. A former shop owner told me someone likely bent the fork to fix the pull. It turned out that the rear of the frame was bent upward on the left side about 3/8", something that didn't really show until we put a frame gauge to it.

You may be able to better straighten the forks with a long board tied or taped to one blade at a time. The longer the lever the more control you'll have. A string can be used to measure with. I've seen homemade fork gauges made from string, cardboard, or even wood. The easiest to use I've seen was a piece of 1/4" all thread rod with length of wood or metal that reaches nearly up to the fork crown. So long as the gauge stick and rod are square at 90 degrees, it'll work.

Here's a simple to make gauge. Make sure the rod or gauge bar is centered between the fork ends, then bend the blades to center the gauge bar between the fork blades at the crown. .


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5921148e6e.jpg
Homemade fork gauge


.

gster 01-16-21 06:37 PM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 21881175)
I was sort of thinking that thing look a bit rough, the painted chrome and Chinese saddle gave me a bad impression of it. . It had he looks of something that was thrown together just to flip. The bent forks and bars sound like it was something that was laying in some yard somewhere getting walked on before being put back together.

I picked up a ladies Raleigh Sports for $40 a while back, the bike rode great, but I bought it for parts.
I actually rode the bike for a mile or two before coming back and stripping it. I needed the fork, cg, and wheels for a men's frame I had here. Before mounting up the fork, I put it in the gauge and both blades were an inch off to the left and the left fork was back 1/4". Yet the bike rode fine like that. I straightened the fork, put the bike together and all was fine. The parts bike looked decent, the bent fork wasn't at all obvious. I used the wheels, forks, and cg from the ladies bike, plus swapped over the Prestube rear rack. The guy who sold me the parts bike said it had been used in the city when his wife was in college years ago, so it likely got some abuse while being parked in the bike rack. A good solid kick is all it takes. I had a Schwinn that came to me with a fork bent off to one side years ago, when I straightened the fork, the bike pulled hard to the left. A former shop owner told me someone likely bent the fork to fix the pull. It turned out that the rear of the frame was bent upward on the left side about 3/8", something that didn't really show until we put a frame gauge to it.

You may be able to better straighten the forks with a long board tied or taped to one blade at a time. The longer the lever the more control you'll have. A string can be used to measure with. I've seen homemade fork gauges made from string, cardboard, or even wood. The easiest to use I've seen was a piece of 1/4" all thread rod with length of wood or metal that reaches nearly up to the fork crown. So long as the gauge stick and rod are square at 90 degrees, it'll work.

Here's a simple to make gauge. Make sure the rod or gauge bar is centered between the fork ends, then bend the blades to center the gauge bar between the fork blades at the crown. .


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5921148e6e.jpg
Homemade fork gauge


.

Yeah....
I agree.
I'm not out too much and I like trying to fix stuff.
I am riding it.

gster 01-16-21 06:37 PM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 21881175)
I was sort of thinking that thing look a bit rough, the painted chrome and Chinese saddle gave me a bad impression of it. . It had he looks of something that was thrown together just to flip. The bent forks and bars sound like it was something that was laying in some yard somewhere getting walked on before being put back together.

I picked up a ladies Raleigh Sports for $40 a while back, the bike rode great, but I bought it for parts.
I actually rode the bike for a mile or two before coming back and stripping it. I needed the fork, cg, and wheels for a men's frame I had here. Before mounting up the fork, I put it in the gauge and both blades were an inch off to the left and the left fork was back 1/4". Yet the bike rode fine like that. I straightened the fork, put the bike together and all was fine. The parts bike looked decent, the bent fork wasn't at all obvious. I used the wheels, forks, and cg from the ladies bike, plus swapped over the Prestube rear rack. The guy who sold me the parts bike said it had been used in the city when his wife was in college years ago, so it likely got some abuse while being parked in the bike rack. A good solid kick is all it takes. I had a Schwinn that came to me with a fork bent off to one side years ago, when I straightened the fork, the bike pulled hard to the left. A former shop owner told me someone likely bent the fork to fix the pull. It turned out that the rear of the frame was bent upward on the left side about 3/8", something that didn't really show until we put a frame gauge to it.

You may be able to better straighten the forks with a long board tied or taped to one blade at a time. The longer the lever the more control you'll have. A string can be used to measure with. I've seen homemade fork gauges made from string, cardboard, or even wood. The easiest to use I've seen was a piece of 1/4" all thread rod with length of wood or metal that reaches nearly up to the fork crown. So long as the gauge stick and rod are square at 90 degrees, it'll work.

Here's a simple to make gauge. Make sure the rod or gauge bar is centered between the fork ends, then bend the blades to center the gauge bar between the fork blades at the crown. .


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5921148e6e.jpg
Homemade fork gauge


.

Yeah....
I agree.
I'm not out too much and I like trying to fix stuff.
I am riding it.

dirtman 01-16-21 10:11 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21881205)
Yeah....
I agree.
I'm not out too much and I like trying to fix stuff.
I am riding it.

How bad are the wheels?
How old did it turn out to be?

cudak888 01-17-21 01:07 AM

I figured I'd ask here, seeing as the For Trade thread isn't as 3-speed oriented as here:

Would anyone happen to have a 1974-1976 silver Raleigh Sports chainguard like the one in the catalog photo?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b0c2f83e9a.jpg


I really don't care for the later 1977+ version on my silver Sports, and wouldn't mind doing a direct swap, or a trade for other bits.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d5aecaed59.jpg


-Kurt

2fat2fly 01-17-21 02:24 AM

Spent some time today putting the Dunelt back together with what I have. For now, its got the wheels and tires I found it with.
I spent an hour getting the chainguard to fit right, and another two hours getting the fenders to fit and sit right on the bike. They were so mangled when I found it it took a hour each just banging out dents to get them somewhat usable.
This is the result of polishing, lots of rust removal, all new bearings, some time with an air brush touching up the really bad spots, and some used car 'glaze' to make it shine.
Don't mind the big greasy finger prints on it, it was 3am by the time I took it off the stand for a quick ride.
I still need to put a front brake cable on it and I still need to adjust a few things but until I find a good donor set of wheels, its as good as it gets for now. The wheels on it are the result of lots of hydroflouric acid and scrubbing, the rear wheel is badly pitted, I just left it as is for now, its not worth messing with other than spraying it down with some wax to prevent it from rusting up again.
The front wheel is straight but has a ton of brake wear. Ride wise, its obviously night and day from the few test rides I took when I first brought it home. It is too small for me, but its usable for now. A proper back wheel, shifter and cable would do wonders for it.
I was talking to another English three speed enthusiast I met locally and he said that the rear wheel may have had an SW hub, which likely failed and got tossed, thus the coaster brake conversion. I think that only makes sense if the bike is older than 1960. What year did they lose the full chainguard boss on the chain stay?

Here's an 'as found' pic and one I took today:


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5158f299f1.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...37110fd2fc.jpg

gster 01-17-21 08:15 AM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 21881485)
How bad are the wheels?
How old did it turn out to be?

Wheels are OK. Rusty spokes and rims sprayed silver.
Unsure on the age but would guess late 50's/early 60's.
It has a "C" headlamp bracket which stands for Condor
This was Benotto's first company before the Benotto line of bikes..
i'ts basically a DL-1 frame with a double bar.
very heavy
living in a big city (Toronto) you take it for granted access to parts and supplies.
I'm in need of a cotter pin...
I can order from Amazon Mexico or try the next town over (Bucerias) that has a bike shop.
It's a 30 minute bus ride away.

gster 01-17-21 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 21881594)
Spent some time today putting the Dunelt back together with what I have. For now, its got the wheels and tires I found it with.
I spent an hour getting the chainguard to fit right, and another two hours getting the fenders to fit and sit right on the bike. They were so mangled when I found it it took a hour each just banging out dents to get them somewhat usable.
This is the result of polishing, lots of rust removal, all new bearings, some time with an air brush touching up the really bad spots, and some used car 'glaze' to make it shine.
Don't mind the big greasy finger prints on it, it was 3am by the time I took it off the stand for a quick ride.
I still need to put a front brake cable on it and I still need to adjust a few things but until I find a good donor set of wheels, its as good as it gets for now. The wheels on it are the result of lots of hydroflouric acid and scrubbing, the rear wheel is badly pitted, I just left it as is for now, its not worth messing with other than spraying it down with some wax to prevent it from rusting up again.
The front wheel is straight but has a ton of brake wear. Ride wise, its obviously night and day from the few test rides I took when I first brought it home. It is too small for me, but its usable for now. A proper back wheel, shifter and cable would do wonders for it.
I was talking to another English three speed enthusiast I met locally and he said that the rear wheel may have had an SW hub, which likely failed and got tossed, thus the coaster brake conversion. I think that only makes sense if the bike is older than 1960. What year did they lose the full chainguard boss on the chain stay?

Here's an 'as found' pic and one I took today:


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5158f299f1.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...37110fd2fc.jpg

Night and day

JIMBO53 01-17-21 08:38 AM

I came up with an inexpensive and easy to use rig for straightening my 1957 Birmingham Gazelle's bent forks. Using some chain I had laying around, a couple of large turnbuckles, threaded rod and some nuts/bolts/washers, I came up with this. Rather than push the forks into alignment, I spun the forks around and pulled them into alignment by tightening the turnbuckles. A picture is worth a thousand words, so this picture will show my basic rig-it has the benefit of pulling one or the other fork leg in case they are bent out of symetry and the turnbuckles can micro-adjust pressure, rather that the bumper jack ratchet style fork straighteners. Anyway, last two pics are before and after-notice gap between front fender and downtube to see improvement.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bf97058ffd.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0e2519a5b4.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3aea01a40.jpeg


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