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-   -   Addiction 2021.4 (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1239811)

WhyFi 10-08-21 12:43 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22262557)
That is SO NOT erg mode. Erg mode means the trainer keeps you at a specified power level regardless of your cadence. It's torture. Trust me.


Originally Posted by Eric F (Post 22262560)
Non-erg mode.


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22262561)
Sounds like "Trainer Difficulty" setting. I use 100%, which kinda mimics riding IRL, though, honestly, there's a bit of lag. I take advantage of that in the Zwift crits - there are some quick rollers right before the finish line, and I spin up before the resistance hits, rather than just bogging down over each one.

Ah, I think that part of the confusion may be that different platforms call certain trainer behaviors by different names (whereas Zwift doesn't seem to use those names at all). I've heard "Slope Mode" used before, which sounds like base of the scaling behavior that genejockey is referring to (default is set to 50% or something, IIRC). I assume that, with Zwift, this is the default and erg is something that you can bumble your way in to?

WhyFi 10-08-21 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by mvnsnd (Post 22262605)
Zwift only does erg mode when in a "workout". All other times it defaults to slope mode and determines slope from the slope on the course at that moment. But you also have the 'trainer difficulty' setting which does a percentage of the 'actual' slope in Zwift. So for a trainer difficulty setting of 50% and a road slope of 8%, Zwift will make the slope 'feel' like 4%. The drawback is that it still calculates your in game speed by the power being put out and therefore won't make you any faster up hills. It essentially flattens the course at 0%, and gives full slope at 100%. And therefore at higher percentages, you will find you need to shift to keep cadence where it is most comfortable.

As a side, I usually use 75-80% trainer difficulty

Cool, that explains it - thanks!

As an aside, when doing workouts, can you opt to do that in a slope mode, as well?

genejockey 10-08-21 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22262608)
Ah, I think that part of the confusion may be that different platforms call certain trainer behaviors by different names (whereas Zwift doesn't seem to use those names at all). I've heard "Slope Mode" used before, which sounds like base of the scaling behavior that genejockey is referring to (default is set to 50% or something, IIRC). I assume that, with Zwift, this is the default and erg is something that you can bumble your way in to?

In Zwift, erg mode is the default for structured workouts, but you can un-select it, and even turn it off on the fly if you're also running the Zwift Companion App on your phone. It also allows you to pause your workout, or to adjust your FTP setting up or down in the middle of the workout.

For free riding, races, group rides, etc., I think Zwift defaults to 50% Trainer Difficulty. Note, however, that even at 100% Trainer Difficulty, downhills are only 50%, so the 15-17% gradient you had to go up to climb the Radio Tower climb is only 7.5-8.5% going down.

genejockey 10-08-21 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22262609)
Cool, that explains it - thanks!

As an aside, when doing workouts, can you opt to do that in a slope mode, as well?

I never thought of that, because it would make holding the right power a lot more difficult. With my Kickr Snap, as I mentioned there's a lag between the visual and the perceived resistance, so outside of the really flat courses in Watopia, I'd be constantly chasing the power.

I don't think it's possible to do slope mode AND erg mode at the same time.

MoAlpha 10-08-21 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22262503)
Erg mode is merciless. Avoid.

Yes and no.

mvnsnd 10-08-21 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22262615)
In Zwift, erg mode is the default for structured workouts, but you can un-select it, and even turn it off on the fly if you're also running the Zwift Companion App on your phone. It also allows you to pause your workout, or to adjust your FTP setting up or down in the middle of the workout.

For free riding, races, group rides, etc., I think Zwift defaults to 50% Trainer Difficulty. Note, however, that even at 100% Trainer Difficulty, downhills are only 50%, so the 15-17% gradient you had to go up to climb the Radio Tower climb is only 7.5-8.5% going down.

Correct, erg is the default, but it can be turned off. ( and will be disabled for a short time if you pause and resume a workout while you get back up to power)
Zwift defaults to 50% when installed. If you change it, it stays that way all the time.

Regarding downhill, its actually worse than you think. Zwift reduces the road slope by 50% to give a feeling of downhill resistance, but then uses half of your trainer difficulty setting to reduce it again.

It's sort of explained here: https://zwiftinsider.com/trainer-dif...y-on-descents/

genejockey 10-08-21 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by mvnsnd (Post 22262627)
Correct, erg is the default, but it can be turned off. ( and will be disabled for a short time if you pause and resume a workout while you get back up to power)
Zwift defaults to 50% when installed. If you change it, it stays that way all the time.

Regarding downhill, its actually worse than you think. Zwift reduces the road slope by 50% to give a feeling of downhill resistance, but then uses half of your trainer difficulty setting to reduce it again.

It's sort of explained here: https://zwiftinsider.com/trainer-dif...y-on-descents/

Yeah, that's one of the irritating things about it, IME - you pause pedaling for a moment, say to adjust your shoe latches, or just get your ass off the saddle for a few seconds, and it falls out of erg mode and you have to bring it back up again. Also, after some intervals IRL you'd just coast for a bit trying to get your lungs back inside your chest, but Zwift wants you to put out a measurable wattage.

WhyFi 10-08-21 01:16 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22262620)
I never thought of that, because it would make holding the right power a lot more difficult. With my Kickr Snap, as I mentioned there's a lag between the visual and the perceived resistance, so outside of the really flat courses in Watopia, I'd be constantly chasing the power.

Ah, I wasn't considering that you'd be traveling over faux terrain and affecting the slope. I just like doing intervals with something resembling the IRL relationship wheel speed and required power on a fixed gradient (whether that's 0% or 1% or whatever).


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22262620)
I don't think it's possible to do slope mode AND erg mode at the same time.

Heh - my bad. When I said, "as well," I meant having the option to do workouts in either mode, not both at the same time.

seedsbelize2 10-08-21 01:17 PM


Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets (Post 22262474)
Made it through another morning of grinding by hand. The little lady even ground the second batch. I need to lube the spindle because it squeaks a bit. I'm surprised these things are about $100 new. I should check eBay and see what a 1970ish one with patina goes for.

I paid $25 for mine, in the early 80s.

MoAlpha 10-08-21 01:23 PM

Friends, if you find the same workout less pleasant in erg than in open mode, you’re dogging it in open mode.

mvnsnd 10-08-21 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22262609)
Cool, that explains it - thanks!

As an aside, when doing workouts, can you opt to do that in a slope mode, as well?

Sure! And once you get familiar with courses, you can use the hills like you might IRL. I often use Box hill on the London course for a 8 min interval and the big hill on Innsbruck for a 20-25 min effort. I prefer that to erg mode as the slight slope change helps to mix up cadence. Turn around, ride back down and repeat.

seedsbelize2 10-08-21 01:28 PM

Welp, I made the lightning fast decision to go to the city with my wife this morning, and now I don't have to go Monday, except to drop her off at the airport at 5AM.
I hope to be able to ride nearly every day next week. And if that goes well, the week after. The left knee has been cured by the occasional application of the naproxen/lidocaine gel. I can't believe that's all it took. I tried it on a whim.

LAJ 10-08-21 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by sbxx1985 (Post 22262580)
Me too.

Still does, but I have ways. People that almost kill you don't realize they have a license plate that one can trace directly back to them. The one that was most surprised to hear from me was an executive from Vail Resorts, after a sustained honk and close pass on Coal Creek Canyon. Vail Resorts also owns what used to be the Bicycle Village chain of stores around here, so she was more than subdued in her response to what I had to say.

seedsbelize2 10-08-21 01:30 PM

Trainer talk. It's that time of year I guess. Only a matter of time until true cabin fever sets in and the sky's the limit.

seedsbelize2 10-08-21 01:31 PM

I could conceivably still ride today but it's looking like rain.

genejockey 10-08-21 01:44 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22262647)
Ah, I wasn't considering that you'd be traveling over faux terrain and affecting the slope. I just like doing intervals with something resembling the IRL relationship wheel speed and required power on a fixed gradient (whether that's 0% or 1% or whatever).



Heh - my bad. When I said, "as well," I meant having the option to do workouts in either mode, not both at the same time.

From what I'm seeing, it seems like you can't use what Zwift calls "Sim Mode" - resistance varies with terrain - in workouts. You can do Erg Mode - resistance adjusts to your cadence to keep you at the right power - or Incline Mode - resistance is constant (but can be raised or lowered) so you adjust your power with gearing and cadence like a dumb trainer. Sim Mode works only for free riding, or racing.

Mind you, this is all in Zwift. Not sure about other platforms.

seedsbelize2 10-08-21 01:48 PM

Rain

LesterOfPuppets 10-08-21 02:04 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize2 (Post 22262688)
Rain


datlas 10-08-21 02:11 PM


Originally Posted by Velo Vol (Post 22261864)
Nope. It was nominally about time travel. Included Philip Bosco.

Reminds me of this classic:


big john 10-08-21 02:13 PM


Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets (Post 22262550)
I once took out a side view mirror with a U-lock BITD. Almost getting killed used to piss me off to no end back then.


Originally Posted by sbxx1985 (Post 22262580)
Me too.

Me too. When we first start road cycling (I was about 30) and someone threatens us or shouts obscenities or throws things or whatever, it is quite a shock. I would think, "How could this f-ing coward who wouldn't dare confront me face to face pull this crap?" Especially the kids. I always wanted to pull them out of their car and slap the **** out of them. At least 2 of my friends have been hit by drivers after flipping them off. Both times the driver circled back and hit them. I no longer engage, much too old for that.

big john 10-08-21 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets (Post 22262707)


LesterOfPuppets 10-08-21 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22262030)
Late night last night, we went to our first real concert in 18 months. It was at the University and the program was quite good.

Have you ever seen a concert in a copper mine? Just a quick trip over to the UP and you can!

https://www.mlive.com/news/2021/10/1...rt-series.html

Make sure to dress warmly :)


The later performances will be candlelit, and the concerts will last about 45 minutes due to the cold temperature of the building and its effect on guests and string instruments.

datlas 10-08-21 02:35 PM


Originally Posted by LesterOfPuppets (Post 22262740)
Have you ever seen a concert in a copper mine? Just a quick trip over to the UP and you can!

https://www.mlive.com/news/2021/10/1...rt-series.html

Make sure to dress warmly :)

I hope they include this mining classic:


I also like the DEVO version:


MoAlpha 10-08-21 02:44 PM

So, as I’ve mentioned, I have a loud click that goes away when I take the crank out, pull the threaded BB apart and put it back together. It is now coming back sooner. Would you just take a flyer and replace the BB?

big john 10-08-21 03:02 PM


Originally Posted by MoAlpha (Post 22262765)
So, as Iíve mentioned, I have a loud click that goes away when I take the crank out, pull the threaded BB apart and put it back together. It is now coming back sooner. Would you just take a flyer and replace the BB?

What BB? Is everything torqued? if you have cups with grooves that could be a problem.


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