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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Greg R 11-12-21 04:58 PM


I have two apart right now here that measure 26.1 mm
Crap, no wonder. Mine measures between 23 and 24 or just under 24 mm. I guess if off to the "handlebar store". Thank you, you've helped save a stem.

rootesgroup 11-12-21 05:38 PM

I feel your pain
 

Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22305045)
Thieves got into my garage and stole three bikes- my Superb, a 1960s ladie's Sprite and a 1974 ladies Superbe, which had an alloy 1950s AW hub on a CR18 rim with SA wingnuts. Sheesh.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7872c66065.jpg

The Superbe is a bike I've had for about 15 years. It has alloy CR18 rims with a 1962 (IIRC) SA hub, SA wingnuts on the front, alloy bars, Brooks grips, alloy Nitto 'Dirt Drop' stem, 1960s shifter, alloy seatpost and a 1960s Brooks B72. The saddlebag is a wax and canvas Minnehaha. LED lighting front and rear- the rear is mounted high so it can be seen. Crane bell, a frankenstien front brake made of a combo of Weinmann and Raleigh parts- the brake arms are the alloy bits. Weinmann brake levers too. There is a snowflake style Raleigh crank and Lyotard 460 steel pedals. I have the key for the fork lock.

When I was young I took my Dunelt out to a local fishing hole. The fishing took me away from my bike and someone stole it. Later on, I saw a kid on my bike. Instead of sneaking up on him I yelled "Hey, stop, you stole my bike" and the kid sped away. I felt so dumb and it bothers me to this day.

Years later, I had a 70's Columbia 10 speed and my brother had a Ross 10 speed of the same age. They were stolen from my parents garage. A few days later I was in Chemistry class in high school and I glanced out the window to see a kid riding my brother's bike (and it was not my brother). I explained what I saw to the teacher and she told me to go see what I could do. The kid went to the adjacent middle school. This time I went into the school and told them what I saw. The assistant principal went into action and, long story short, we got both bikes back.

clubman 11-12-21 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22305250)
With a frame like that I'd be tempted to put an S5 in it but they are going for real money these days. The lady's bike had a good one on it. My girlfriend is upset about that. All these bikes have been on the Lake Pepin tour at one point or another.

Well, when you find the steam to build another 3 speed, ask me for parts. I'm starting a 2 year downsize. (retirement?)

oldspokes 11-13-21 03:27 AM

There's been a few break ins and thefts around here lately too, car break ins where they steal the radiator, ac condenser, and catalytic converter, a few where they just rummaged through the glove box for what they could find. A neighbor had 7 barrels of crushed beer cans he was saving behind his garage stolen, then the next day they came back and stole his mower and two bikes from in the garage. They found the mower minus the motor and the bike missing all its aluminum bits in the woods behind his house. Another neighbor had three bikes swiped, a set of vintage pots and pans, (aluminum), and two high dollar paint spray guns. They turned up at the local scrap yard the next day. The bike was cut up, they ripped off the tires, cut the spokes, and smashed the steel bits off the frame with what looked like an axe so they could sell it for aluminum. The guys who scrapped it all were described but not found. The pots and pans turned up at a flea market 40 miles away, found by a relative who recognized them. The story was that old guy who was selling them picked them up from the scrap yard pile while junking something else. They were most likely stolen by either a crackhead or some one desperate for quick cash.
From past experience, stolen items like that don't often make it to proper websites, they're after faster money. They'll likely scrap them whole, cut off the aluminum parts, or pawn them off to someone they know, for example, someone who sells at flea markets or such. If they were pros, they would have taken far more than bikes which likely aren't all that easy to sell.
It would likely drive around and scan the local known dump sites and scrap yards.
We did find out around here though that you can't count on the local junk yard to do the right thing, they generally will crush or grind something up in a hurry rather than call the police and lose what they paid for it.
In this area, outboards are a big theft issue, if the motor is too heavy to carry, they take just the lower unit and what ever brass or aluminum they can break off easily without waking up the owner.
Even when someone is caught, they don't do much at all. They're back out the next day further determined and a bit better educated.
With all that's been going on lately, the theft of something minor like a bike or boat doesn't rate very high when it comes to case priority.
Retail theft and shop lifting is up, burglaries and break ins in general are up as well. I just read a report saying that retail theft is up 87%, and that a third of that is suspected to be employee related, with much of the increase attributed to first time or new thieves who have no history or prior record of any theft.This same type of thief likely would have not committed any crime as little as two years ago.
They blame the pandemic but I see it as just an excuse. In my opinion, there are those who will steal, and those would will never steal, the problem is the first group is made up of two parts, those who will steal no matter what, and those who would steal if they knew they likely won't get caught. Unfortunately the latter have been emboldened lately, especially when they make announcements saying that the police aren't prosecuting minor offenses due to covid.
The typical crackhead drug user thief steals in his own backyard, while the money or profit driven thief goes further away in hopes they're not recognized and in hopes the items they stole can be sold more easily where they live where the item or report was publicized.
Check nearby locations for you stuff, they'll be looking to move it fast. In most cases you chances of finding any of it though are slim because you can't cover enough ground or keep tabs on what could be a hundred or so mile radius or more. In reality, they likely already dumped or stripped what they stole.

oldspokes 11-13-21 03:38 AM


Originally Posted by Greg R (Post 22305381)
Crap, no wonder. Mine measures between 23 and 24 or just under 24 mm. I guess if off to the "handlebar store". Thank you, you've helped save a stem.

There were some older British bikes with 23.8mm or 15/16" bars, but most I find are 25.4 or 26.1mm. these days. Old American bars tended to be 7/8" or 22,2mm.
26.1 is an obsolete size these days, 25.4/1" is more common and I find that a stem from a 26.1 will clamp down just fine on the 1" bars. But nothing any smaller.
Looking at what I've got here, the 26.1" bars are all smooth in the center, no markings, no nurling at all. The stem clamp is hard to get on and off the center of the bar, usually requiring me to wedge a screwdriver in the opening to let the stem slid on without force.
The 1" fits easier, but takes a bit more clamping pressure the first time you tighten it down. There's still plenty of clamping area left in the gap of the stem with the 1" bars. All that I'm looking at here are stems with the Sir Raleigh stamped in the middle, and from the mid 60's to mid 70's. I have used 1" Wald bars in the past for replacements with no issues. 7/8" bars require a shim if you must use them.

dirtman 11-13-21 07:48 AM

Put the forks in last night, can't tell anything was ever wrong with it.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e833e29864.jpg

How many other variations in the drop tube frames other than the two advertised sizes, 19 and 21" were there.
This one measures 21" but the thing sits and rides taller than my 23" men's Sports. The bars are also closer to me on this bike, the riding position is more on top of the bars rather than behind them. It makes for some knee clearance issues at slow speeds, something I don't notice on a '72 model drop tube Sports I have here also in 21" but that bike has a 1" shorter steer tube.
Maybe the Sprite frame was different somehow from the Sports?
When comparing this to a '72 ladies model Sports, also a 21" frame, I can see right away that the seat stays and both the top and down tubes are shorter than the Sports, yet the head tube is 3/8" longer and it is less laid back then on the Sports frame When side by side, the top of the head tube on the Sprite is 1/2" more rearward and tilted further forward . The 72 Sports had a 7 1/2" steer tube on its fork vs the 8" on the green Sprite. Both are 26" bikes. The forks on the Sprite have more rake or curve forward, but the the same tire clearance. The difference isn't much, maybe 1/4" or so but compared to an older, mid 50's fork from a ladies bike, the green fork is very different mainlly in the last 4" or so. The earlier forks are much straighter and more rigid. I noticed this before straightening the green fork, I tried mounting up an earlier fork and realized how much shorter it was going to make the bike overall do to having less trail. I believe that fork was from the '59 frame I have stored away outside.
(I guess I should mention that I've got about 40 or so of these bikes in various states of disrepair that I got from a number of old bike shops that closed up over the years, with a few being CL and yard sale finds. I've always just parted out the ladies bikes and hung the frames in the trailer out back, but this one was different so it stayed together with the intent to eventually get around to going over it and keeping it. I was going to just pull out the 52, or the 59 to do when I found the bent fork but someone her didn't want a black bike, so green it is). Since someone made a pretty serious offer on this bikes rear S5 hub, I'll have to re-lace the back wheel with an AW. I didn't realize the S5 hubs were so valuable these days. I had pulled both wheels apart to replace a few ugly spoke nipples anyway, and I never did use the hi/lo feature anyhow.
I'll just put a larger rear sprocket on an AW and all will be fine. It'll likely never come out of low or mid range anyhow.

When assembled, the seat tube and head tube sit more upright on the Sprite and the overall bike is shorter by a few inches.
Until I started taking measurements looking for further damage, and trying to use the Sports frame for comparison I never new there were any changes over the years or between models. If I get the chance, I want to dig out a few others and see if those are similar or do they differ was well. I've got a few older ladies frames in my storage trailer and a few in the basement somewhere I have to dig for to find.
Out of all of them, it was the green Sprite that I chose to keep together as a beater bike and loaner because it rode so much better, but I do seem to remember having to stay aware that the cranks tended to hit the ground quicker on turns on the Sprite. After measuring the seat stays and main tubes, I can see now that the BB sits a bit lower on this bike than on the sports, but the more upright seat tube makes for a very different feel when riding it.
Also, as someone with knee issues, having the cranks located more directly below me makes for a bike that's much easier on my knees.

52telecaster 11-13-21 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by dirtman (Post 22305786)
Put the forks in last night, can't tell anything was ever wrong with it.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e833e29864.jpg

How many other variations in the drop tube frames other than the two advertised sizes, 19 and 21" were there.
This one measures 21" but the thing sits and rides taller than my 23" men's Sports. The bars are also closer to me on this bike, the riding position is more on top of the bars rather than behind them. It makes for some knee clearance issues at slow speeds, something I don't notice on a '72 model drop tube Sports I have here also in 21" but that bike has a 1" shorter steer tube.
Maybe the Sprite frame was different somehow from the Sports?
When comparing this to a '72 ladies model Sports, also a 21" frame, I can see right away that the seat stays and both the top and down tubes are shorter than the Sports, yet the head tube is 3/8" longer and it is less laid back then on the Sports frame When side by side, the top of the head tube on the Sprite is 1/2" more rearward and tilted further forward . The 72 Sports had a 7 1/2" steer tube on its fork vs the 8" on the green Sprite. Both are 26" bikes. The forks on the Sprite have more rake or curve forward, but the the same tire clearance. The difference isn't much, maybe 1/4" or so but compared to an older, mid 50's fork from a ladies bike, the green fork is very different mainlly in the last 4" or so. The earlier forks are much straighter and more rigid. I noticed this before straightening the green fork, I tried mounting up an earlier fork and realized how much shorter it was going to make the bike overall do to having less trail. I believe that fork was from the '59 frame I have stored away outside.
(I guess I should mention that I've got about 40 or so of these bikes in various states of disrepair that I got from a number of old bike shops that closed up over the years, with a few being CL and yard sale finds. I've always just parted out the ladies bikes and hung the frames in the trailer out back, but this one was different so it stayed together with the intent to eventually get around to going over it and keeping it. I was going to just pull out the 52, or the 59 to do when I found the bent fork but someone her didn't want a black bike, so green it is). Since someone made a pretty serious offer on this bikes rear S5 hub, I'll have to re-lace the back wheel with an AW. I didn't realize the S5 hubs were so valuable these days. I had pulled both wheels apart to replace a few ugly spoke nipples anyway, and I never did use the hi/lo feature anyhow.
I'll just put a larger rear sprocket on an AW and all will be fine. It'll likely never come out of low or mid range anyhow.

When assembled, the seat tube and head tube sit more upright on the Sprite and the overall bike is shorter by a few inches.
Until I started taking measurements looking for further damage, and trying to use the Sports frame for comparison I never new there were any changes over the years or between models. If I get the chance, I want to dig out a few others and see if those are similar or do they differ was well. I've got a few older ladies frames in my storage trailer and a few in the basement somewhere I have to dig for to find.
Out of all of them, it was the green Sprite that I chose to keep together as a beater bike and loaner because it rode so much better, but I do seem to remember having to stay aware that the cranks tended to hit the ground quicker on turns on the Sprite. After measuring the seat stays and main tubes, I can see now that the BB sits a bit lower on this bike than on the sports, but the more upright seat tube makes for a very different feel when riding it.
Also, as someone with knee issues, having the cranks located more directly below me makes for a bike that's much easier on my knees.

I love that position where you need to be careful of the knees. I've gotten used to avoiding the bars with my knees and really enjoy the upright view.

gster 11-13-21 08:44 AM

Interesting...
1932 Norman
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b60f92254f.jpg




https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...term=514887089

Also:
https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site...railleurs.html

Alsobay 11-13-21 10:40 AM

This girl just join the family.
 
Picked up this Raleigh sport gold as a gift for my wife. It will undergo a rebuild as a proper ladies bike using a new Brooks saddle and leather grips that I will take on as a DIY project. Iím a hobbyist wood worker, so this beauty will have some neat padauk on the front and rear rack to be installed.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...644a69e95.jpeg

Greg R 11-13-21 05:51 PM


Mine measures between 23 and 24 or just under 24 mm.
Checking further, the swage, or bulge, isn't true. There's a .7mm difference across the width and the clamp seems to be only grabbing on 1/2 of it. I did find a novel way to spread the clamp. I'm using a sturdy pair of snap ring pliers with square flat ends for square rings. This way I'm not wedging on the chrome to mark it up and I can control just what's needed. The pliers have been "transferred" from transmission to bike tools.

bazil4696 11-13-21 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22305045)
Thieves got into my garage and stole three bikes- my Superb, a 1960s ladie's Sprite and a 1974 ladies Superbe, which had an alloy 1950s AW hub on a CR18 rim with SA wingnuts. Sheesh.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7872c66065.jpg

The Superbe is a bike I've had for about 15 years. It has alloy CR18 rims with a 1962 (IIRC) SA hub, SA wingnuts on the front, alloy bars, Brooks grips, alloy Nitto 'Dirt Drop' stem, 1960s shifter, alloy seatpost and a 1960s Brooks B72. The saddlebag is a wax and canvas Minnehaha. LED lighting front and rear- the rear is mounted high so it can be seen. Crane bell, a frankenstien front brake made of a combo of Weinmann and Raleigh parts- the brake arms are the alloy bits. Weinmann brake levers too. There is a snowflake style Raleigh crank and Lyotard 460 steel pedals. I have the key for the fork lock.

I'm sorry to hear of such a tragic loss!

Vintage Schwinn 11-13-21 09:29 PM

Oldspokes mentioned that OLD AMERICAN handlebars were 7/8" (22.2mm)........yes, this was the outer diameter of the handlebar's tubing EXCEPT THAT THE CLAMP AREA PORTION is 1" (25.4mm)
So yeah for example you'd have the 22.2 WEINMANN TOURIST BRAKE LEVERS (red dot, gold dot,...whatever..) and your stem would be 25.4mm clamp area.

1989Pre 11-14-21 05:06 AM

Excellent article from Disraeli Gears.

1989Pre 11-14-21 05:09 AM


Originally Posted by Alsobay (Post 22305953)
Picked up this Raleigh sport gold as a gift for my wife. It will undergo a rebuild as a proper ladies bike using a new Brooks saddle and leather grips that I will take on as a DIY project. Iím a hobbyist wood worker, so this beauty will have some neat padauk on the front and rear rack to be installed.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...644a69e95.jpeg

Nice. I'll bet you offered to make her some wooden hand-grips.

gster 11-14-21 07:21 AM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 22306664)
Excellent article from Disraeli Gears.

Yes.
A good resource.
I don't have any derailleur bikes but I do like
derailleurs as little machines.
I have several on display

gster 11-14-21 09:14 AM

Here in Toronto, the price continues to drop on this one.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e785b3b621.jpg
Currently at $55.00

bazil4696 11-14-21 04:25 PM

3 speed 1952 Claud Butler tandem dolled up for Christmas
 
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c23d0ec22.jpg
From inside looking out
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0e75a0df4.jpeg
From outside looking up
About 60 ft of lights to wrap it. 4 strings. One for each wheel, and the other two around the frame

thumpism 11-14-21 05:06 PM

Three 3-speeds for cheap in MA; a Phillips and two Sportses, one of them a men's 23". "Best offer."

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...89084501666172

https://scontent.fric1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...8f&oe=61B5F597

Salubrious 11-15-21 11:04 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 22305455)
Well, when you find the steam to build another 3 speed, ask me for parts. I'm starting a 2 year downsize. (retirement?)

Thanks! I might take you up on that.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f39f4b1384.jpg
This is a royal Enfield 'Lightweight Sports'. I pulled this bike out of mothballs to act as my commuter for the time being. I had thought it was a '48, based on the hub date, but the hardware (notably the fulcrum clip, which in the 1930s was a single piece part, the headset hardware, the Bayliss Wiley front hub and all the black hardware that was chromed after the war) and graphics on the bike suggest its a 30s machine. The Lightweight Sports was supplied without a chain guard. The one seen here was added later.

Both hubs were had over-tightened bearing cones and were in need of lubrication. The brakes were in need of adjustment and now the bike brakes fairly well even if the rims are wet. The seatpost is a smaller diameter than expected; it uses a sleeve to fit it to the frame. The original shifter is long gone- I installed a 50s brass shifter to replace the 70s shifter it came with. But the correct shifter was likely a K Patt barrel shifter since the quadrant shifter has no need of a fulcrum clip.

clubman 11-15-21 11:10 AM

Ooof. I love those Midland racks on top of everything else, like the painted rim pinstripes.
That's special.

Salubrious 11-15-21 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 22308133)
Ooof. I love those Midland racks on top of everything else, like the painted rim pinstripes.
That's special.

A commuter has to have a rack :)

Ballenxj 11-15-21 03:43 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 22305045)
Thieves got into my garage and stole three bikes- my Superb, a 1960s ladie's Sprite and a 1974 ladies Superbe, which had an alloy 1950s AW hub on a CR18 rim with SA wingnuts. Sheesh.

<-------->

The Superbe is a bike I've had for about 15 years. It has alloy CR18 rims with a 1962 (IIRC) SA hub, SA wingnuts on the front, alloy bars, Brooks grips, alloy Nitto 'Dirt Drop' stem, 1960s shifter, alloy seatpost and a 1960s Brooks B72. The saddlebag is a wax and canvas Minnehaha. LED lighting front and rear- the rear is mounted high so it can be seen. Crane bell, a frankenstien front brake made of a combo of Weinmann and Raleigh parts- the brake arms are the alloy bits. Weinmann brake levers too. There is a snowflake style Raleigh crank and Lyotard 460 steel pedals. I have the key for the fork lock.

Sorry to hear this, Dang! :(

2fat2fly 11-17-21 05:29 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 22307303)
Three 3-speeds for cheap in MA; a Phillips and two Sportses, one of them a men's 23". "Best offer."

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...89084501666172

Looks like that ad was listed 4 years ago, it may be a running ad for a flipper, or they've now been sitting outdoors for 4 more years since those pics were taken.

thumpism 11-17-21 07:58 PM


Originally Posted by 2fat2fly (Post 22311328)
Looks like that ad was listed 4 years ago, it may be a running ad for a flipper, or they've now been sitting outdoors for 4 more years since those pics were taken.

Missed the four year part on that ad, but I do know of a couple of bikes outside for that long around here; there's a blue ladies' Hercules at an antique shop which does not think bikes rate inside space, and I got a Sports back from a friend who left it in her back yard for the same reason. Unfortunately, they don't all survive or get the shelter they deserve.

Ged117 11-17-21 08:19 PM

Anyone ever run into 170mm or 175mm length crankarms for cottered cranks? The Williams C34 crank I am using on my '51 Wasp + Sturmey FW has 165mm crankarms and they're bugging my knees. I had this same problem with my Superbe. Bikes with 170mm or 175mm arms don't bother me at all. I'd rather not go out and buy a Stronglight crank or alternative.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...a1386c04_b.jpgPXL_20210624_002831127


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