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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 01-17-16 09:07 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 18466472)
I decided this would be the winter I serviced our Sports' bottom brackets and SA hubs starting with the easy part, the BBs. I'd removed many a cotter back in the day and expected these cotters to be reluctant to come out so I took up @noglider's offer of his extractor. Ladies first; my wife's NDS crank came off like butter.

Drive side - oy vey. The threaded end of the cotter began to bend under the pressure of the extractor. Back to my roots! A mighty hammer blow, and the threaded end sheared right off. Now that the cotter materil was below grade in the crank arm I tried the extractor again and promptly broke 7-8mm off the end of the pin. At this point, war was declared.

Next casualty, my nail punch bent. Calling out heavier artillery, I used a beefy 'Easy Out' as a punch. It went in at an angle and drove itself into the crank arm material, stuck in as firmly as Excalibur in the stone.

Not accepting defeat, I sawed off the protruding end of the cotter head, and began to drill...lost a few bits in the process but today I got through and removed enough material to remove the Easy Out with the help of penetrating oil (sadly, the Lady of the Lake did not appear and Crown me as King).

I think I'm going to marinade it overnight with some more penetrating oil overnight and will drill/file some more. I'll need to replace the drive side crank arm and heron chainwheel, and I am wondering if I should leave my '66 alone...

If they don't come out after a couple of good whacks, I take the frame down to my friend George and use his old school press.
It ALWAYS works.

Velocivixen 01-17-16 09:10 PM

I have a Park Tool Cotter Press which helps. The day before the big event I remove the nuts from the cotters, then apply liberal penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench. Wait overnight then carefully align the press with the pins. The cotters have come out easily, except one I bent because I didn't have the press straight.


@gster - It's not a bike I'd leave outside locked up for long. Thanks for the compliment.

smontanaro 01-17-16 10:17 PM

I just removed a cottered crank for the for time today. (Yes, I realize I've lived a sheltered life. :D) Not having a press, I used a C clamp and a nut for a compression fitting that fit over the end of the cotter pin to give it room to move. Loosened the nut a bit, snugged it all up nice and tight, then gave it a not-too-hard rap with a hammer on the nut end. Popped right out.

BigChief 01-17-16 10:18 PM

With Raleighs, there seems to be some variance in dimensions on the cranks even on the same bike. Shaft flats or maybe the distance between the shaft/cotter hole centers...who knows. But it saves time and trouble in the long run to carefully shape the cotter pins with a file to fit perfectly. I like them to protrude about one thread longer than the nut after a couple of mild hits with a hammer. I think stuck pins are a result not of corrosion but of people using too much force to hammer pins that are too steep. Hammering a pin harder and harder until enough threads protrude to get the nut on is a bad idea, but people will do this rather than taking the time to reshape the pin.

Narhay 01-18-16 02:24 AM

I've had a couple sturmey Archer headlights sitting around and I decided I was going to sell them but they didn't work properly. I had opened them up before but I hadn't really figured out how exactly they worked and they would sometimes flicker on and off or not work at all.

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/...pszjj7dcwy.jpg

I added an extra wire to go to the threaded portion of the bulb just for a direct connection. The wire going to the switch portion is isolated from the rest of the light by cardboard. The other round card piece on the base of the bulb was actually quite important as it prevents the "twig" (piece of metal sticking up that touches the base of the bulb when the light closes) from touching the other metal and creating a circuit that bypasses the bulb.

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/...pscwf7ioh7.jpg

And after sitting and thinking for a bit (and cutting/attaching wires) I tossed it on the truing stand with a dynohub and voila. We have light where there was once nothing. Not as complicated as I thought but the light didn't have the round cardboard at first and it was not lighting up.

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/...psb2kxdzsk.jpg

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/...psnkpoqfxd.jpg

LimpyT 01-18-16 01:44 PM

1 Attachment(s)
MY project 1952 Raleigh sporthttp://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499060

clubman 01-18-16 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by LimpyT (Post 18468582)

Looks interesting. Could you take a pic or two of the drive side, crank and the fork? They look different than the regular offering. It's also got the "Tourist" short bars instead of North Road bends.

dweenk 01-18-16 01:57 PM

I know that this should be listed on "Are You Looking For One of These", but since 3 speed interest is located here...

A Ross/Armstrong 3 speed that appears to be late 1960's or early bike boom. The seller is asking $45, but I am pretty sure he will take less (I've bought a couple from him before). You can be sure that he has not worked on it at all - not even washed it (turned a tap, as my late grandmother would say). There is also a Western Auto single speed ladies bike in the ad that appears to be British as well.

2 VINTAGE BIKES

LimpyT 01-18-16 02:06 PM

3 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499061http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499062http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499063

From my understanding, his dad brought it from someone and passed it onto him when he was 13, He swears everything is orginal and hasnt been changed because I queried the colour with him. I thought it was a Tourist at first but as the decals show it is jusy a sports, Sheldon Browns site explains the 52 year wasnt but might has well been a deluxe with all the added features. Maybe you wouldnt mind helping me with what missing.

Originally Posted by clubman (Post 18468609)
Looks interesting. Could you take a pic or two of the drive side, crank and the fork? They look different than the regular offering. It's also got the "Tourist" short bars instead of North Road bends.


dweenk 01-18-16 02:12 PM


Originally Posted by LimpyT (Post 18468633)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499061http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499062http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499063

From my understanding, his dad brought it from someone and passed it onto him when he was 13, He swears everything is orginal and hasnt been changed because I queried the colour with him. I thought it was a Tourist at first but as the decals show it is jusy a sports, Sheldon Browns site explains the 52 year wasnt but might has well been a deluxe with all the added features. Maybe you wouldnt mind helping me with what missing.

The chainring has the letters "RNI"on it, so it is not any Raleigh that I have seen. The fork crowndoes not look Raleigh either.

LimpyT 01-18-16 02:30 PM

Could this be relevant to the bike remaining in the UK? 80% were shipped overseas, I dunno, the inlaw is a stickler for detail, his dad didnt do it, so the changed would have been in its first 5 years of life which I dont understand why they would, I cant seem to find the RNI chainring online or manufacture.


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 18468643)
The chainring has the letters "RNI"on it, so it is not any Raleigh that I have seen. The fork crowndoes not look Raleigh either.


LimpyT 01-18-16 02:49 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 18468643)
The chainring has the letters "RNI"on it, so it is not any Raleigh that I have seen. The fork crowndoes not look Raleigh either.

Raleigh Industries Nottingham - is the RIN and the slope is because they had 3 diffiernt lines from companies they purchased, Rudge models have a sloping fork crown with a removable chrome cap. The Rudge logo is a human hand, and the chainwheels are cut out in this pattern. Raleigh purchased the Rudge Whitworth company in 1943.
Raleigh, Rudge & HumberThese were the flagship brands of Raleigh Industries, and are of equal quality. 26" wheel models would normally come withRaleigh-pattern rims and Brooks leather saddles. Having separate lines allowed Raleigh to offer exclusive territories to local dealers without writing off other dealers in the same area. The frames on these bikes were generally identical, but each had special distinctive cosmetic features, particularly in the fork construction, and the pattern of the cutouts in the chainwheel:

My bike is original I believe

dweenk 01-18-16 02:53 PM


Originally Posted by LimpyT (Post 18468677)
Could this be relevant to the bike remaining in the UK? 80% were shipped overseas, I dunno, the inlaw is a stickler for detail, his dad didnt do it, so the changed would have been in its first 5 years of life which I dont understand why they would, I cant seem to find the RNI chainring online or manufacture.

Raleigh was very diligent about having a heron or Sir Walter stamped on cranks, stems, and like. Hardware was sometimes embellished with an "R" as well. I am not an expert, but it does not look like a Raleigh to me. It may have been one of the brands that they acquired later.

Any ID marks on the hubs or cranks?

dweenk 01-18-16 03:04 PM


Originally Posted by LimpyT (Post 18468717)
Raleigh Industries Nottingham - is the RIN and the slope is because they had 3 diffiernt lines from companies they purchased, Rudge models have a sloping fork crown with a removable chrome cap. The Rudge logo is a human hand, and the chainwheels are cut out in this pattern. Raleigh purchased the Rudge Whitworth company in 1943.
Raleigh, Rudge & HumberThese were the flagship brands of Raleigh Industries, and are of equal quality. 26" wheel models would normally come withRaleigh-pattern rims and Brooks leather saddles. Having separate lines allowed Raleigh to offer exclusive territories to local dealers without writing off other dealers in the same area. The frames on these bikes were generally identical, but each had special distinctive cosmetic features, particularly in the fork construction, and the pattern of the cutouts in the chainwheel:

My bike is original I believe

DOH, I just saw your other thread. It is a Robin Hood, and may as well be a Raleigh.

clubman 01-18-16 07:29 PM


Originally Posted by LimpyT (Post 18468717)
[COLOR=#000000][FONT=Arial]

My bike is original I believe

I believe you're right! It looks like it needs nothing but a teardown, tune-up and cleaning. DON'T repaint. Any questions you have can be answered on Sheldons site or here. Nice bike!

BigChief 01-19-16 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by LimpyT (Post 18468582)

What a great find! Pretty sure this would have originally had an enclosed chaincase. Nice, nice bike.

gster 01-19-16 07:45 AM

1 Attachment(s)
R.I.N. chain ring.

BigChief 01-19-16 09:53 AM

I think I see something stamped on the crank arm. Not a Sir Walter. Raleigh Industries perhaps? I wonder what the story behind the Robin Hood bikes is. This early version has different lug shapes than Raleigh badged bikes of that period. And now I know there was a dedicated chainring for the brand. At least in the early 50s. Every Robin Hood I've ever seen was a re-badged Sports model with the standard spoked Raleigh chainring and the short chromed fork caps, but they were all 60s models.

adventurepdx 01-19-16 04:03 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's a interesting one spotted on Portland CL, a 23 inch Sprite, yet a "three speed"? Interesting because I thought the Sprite was a five speed, and this one is clearly a three (no left-side shifter, clearly a three speed hub.) And the 1969 Raleigh catalog page the ad links clearly show the Sprite as either a five-speed hub or five-speed derailleur. I'm guessing at some point someone converted it into a three speed instead. Still a nice looking bike!
1969 Raleigh Sprite Men's 23 Inch 3 Speed Bicycle
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499282

BigChief 01-19-16 05:10 PM

I don't think this is a conversion to 3 speed. A few years earlier, Raleigh issued a "Deluxe" version of the Sports. The only real deluxe feature was the addition of a Brooks saddle. They changed the graphics around with a Sports transfer on the seat tube and a Raleigh transfer on the down tube. Perhaps, they were aiming for a slightly different version of the Sports before they decided on the 5 speed format for Sprites. Oops. just noticed...69 not 67. Back to being totally confused. Never saw that chainring before either.

dezzie 01-19-16 06:29 PM

2 Attachment(s)
My Stowaway Raleigh i bought a few month ago for 20, bought new whitewalls and tubes, spent a few days doing a full strip down and service and its gorgeous now, just have to finish my 2 moulton f frames now! Before and after!

gster 01-19-16 07:24 PM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499337http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499320

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18471487)
I don't think this is a conversion to 3 speed. A few years earlier, Raleigh issued a "Deluxe" version of the Sports. The only real deluxe feature was the addition of a Brooks saddle. They changed the graphics around with a Sports transfer on the seat tube and a Raleigh transfer on the down tube. Perhaps, they were aiming for a slightly different version of the Sports before they decided on the 5 speed format for Sprites. Oops. just noticed...69 not 67. Back to being totally confused. Never saw that chainring before either.

Here's my fairly original 1967 5 Speed Sprite. Note the traditional chain guard. The derailler version had the wing style.
The B72 saddle is correct.

gster 01-19-16 07:31 PM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499325http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499326

Originally Posted by dezzie (Post 18471662)
My Stowaway Raleigh i bought a few month ago for 20, bought new whitewalls and tubes, spent a few days doing a full strip down and service and its gorgeous now, just have to finish my 2 moulton f frames now! Before and after!

There's a 1965 Moulton for sale in Windsor Ontario for $1500 CDN. With the current value of the Canadian dollar, it works out to about $ 3.58 US.

gster 01-19-16 07:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=499340Here's one with a Dynohub. 1969 Sprite

3speedslow 01-19-16 07:51 PM

That's a deal!! Really? :)


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