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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Velocivixen 05-12-16 08:41 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 18763311)
I haven't seen anyone mention this yet: could it be that you have a non-original indicator spindle of an incorrect length?

You know, I considered that but when I put the old spring back in things work like they should. Very weird. When I had the shift lever on "1" the indicator was pulled out all the way and the chain was tight. I unscrewed the pin so that when I pulled on the chain there was a tiny bit of movement, as per Sheldon Brown, but the only thing that allowed me to get into 1st, was to put the old, weaker spring back in.
@w1gfh - I've got brand new cable in the original housing. I dribbled Tri-flo into the old housing.

BigChief 05-12-16 08:53 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18763263)
@w1gfh - Thanks for taking the time to respond to my very long post. Yes, I really like the older trigger shifters, yet noted that brand new ones shift like butter - but they're ugly. What are your thoughts on the new spring not letting me get into my lowest gear? The spring they sold me was black, not silver like the original one, but was the same otherwise. I thought maybe the spring was for ? maybe a newer AW hub or something.

I had a similar condition once. Turned out to be the key didn't move freely in the slot in the axle.
If the trigger doesn't have a strong enough snap into place, it can sometimes be that the mouse trap spring that puts pressure on the pawl is weak.

Narhay 05-12-16 09:17 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18763296)
As a matter of fact yes - I did not try them on the front. When you say "keyed" do you mean that the slot looks like a "keyhole"?

Want me me to remove my front wheel & see if the tool works on them?


That would be lovely if you could. Older Raleigh front forks sometimes had smaller axles and the axles had a two parallel flat spots on them. If your hub only slides into position when the axle flats are lined up with the fork tips then you've got what I'm looking for.

Narhay 05-12-16 09:21 PM

This is the axle with the flat spot I am talking about. The fork tips are too narrow to accept a regular sized round axle so I am hoping the tool diameter is small enough to fit in fork tips like these.

http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/...psgiejna3r.jpg

Velocivixen 05-12-16 10:12 PM

Oh then I already know they won't fit on my forks. My front axle is round and takes a lot of effort to work them up the slots and seat into their final, round, resting place. For a modern axle (common 9 mm) to fit I would have to file the slot down, therefore I doubt that the tool would fit. I'm not home now but I'll do some measuring when I get home.
@Narhay - my rear 3 speed AW hub has the two flats on the axle with semi horizontal dropouts and the tool worked fine (the edges of cutout are exactly parallel). My fork, however is shaped like a keyhole and takes a round axle.

gster 05-13-16 05:02 AM

This bike showed up on Kijiji, Toronto today at a very reasonable $35.00.
Listed as an on old English bicycle, it's actually from India and would be the good basis for a vintage Path Racer.
28" wheels, rod and lever brakes, drop bars and a double top tube!
https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...05/27vxdg1.jpghttps://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...016/05/272.jpg

hatrack71 05-13-16 05:10 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I have been reading about cotter pin removal methods and thought I would share how I've done it. Best way for me is a Pony pipe clamp and a socket. The orange clamps that have the big turning handles. I just put the socket over the non threaded end of the cotter and it comes right out 99% of the time without bother.

I've also used 4 or 5 foot long Pony pipe clamps to remove stuck stems and seatposts. Great way for getting the same leverage as a vise if you don't have one. Plus there is no need to disassemble the bike.

gster 05-13-16 05:10 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's one that I put together a few years ago..
https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...-racer-update/

Salubrious 05-13-16 09:33 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18763129)
Ideas? Obviously I'm gonna stick with the original spring and not worry about it. Eventually I may replace the shift lever.

Is the cable from the shifter to the hub free and easy? If gummed up the shift will do this very thing.

Velocivixen 05-13-16 10:13 AM

@gster- so you bought it? What year do you think it might be from? It's very interesting looking and I will be interested to see what you'll do with it.

noglider 05-13-16 11:52 AM

@Velocivixen, to troubleshoot your shifting problem, simulate the clutch spring by disconnecting the indicator chain, and pull on that end of the cable with your left hand. Shift with your right hand, maintaining tension with your left hand. If it is still sluggish, the problem is in the cable or the shifter. Move your left hand to the next place along the cable to create tension. Do this repeatedly until your hand is on the inner wire just outside the shifter.

Velocivixen 05-13-16 12:32 PM

@Narhay - OK, here are the photos I promised and some thoughts about the dropout alignment tools.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7629/...32a0cb8b_c.jpgUntitled by velocivixen, on Flickr
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/...c53de729_c.jpgUntitled by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7504/...6559b169_c.jpgUntitled by velocivixen, on Flickr

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7332/...fa60889f_c.jpgUntitled by velocivixen, on Flickr

The last photo is the rear of my Raleigh Twenty which requires an axle that has 2 flats on it along with an antirotational washer. The tool DOES fit and work in these slots.

The fork has keyed slots for a ROUND axle and the tool does fit, however even with both halves of the tool completely retracted they overlap (the fork is 90mm spacing), so you can use the tool as far as fit, but you'd have to be creative with lining the ends of the tool parallel to each other. Anyway the tool fits both types of dropouts.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you'd like any other info or photos for clarification.

@Salubrious & @noglider - new cable, old housing with Tri-flo. I did what you suggested @noglider and the cable moves wonderfully. I'm not gonna fret about it. What it means is that I have to actively push the flick shifter lever into 3rd to get it to go all the way into 3rd.

w1gfh 05-13-16 12:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521439
Yep, if this is your shift lever, it looks funked up with rust.

Velocivixen 05-13-16 01:11 PM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 18765124)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521439
Yep, if this is your shift lever, it looks funked up with rust.

Not that bike. I'm talking about a different Twenty. I have 3 Raleigh Twenty's and am working on different ones. The one I'm talking about is in pristine condition, and everything has been ultrasonically cleaned, lubed, new cable, etc.

It's all in my original post. No worries. It is what it is. 3Rd requires nudging. It works.

gster 05-13-16 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18764579)
@gster- so you bought it? What year do you think it might be from? It's very interesting looking and I will be interested to see what you'll do with it.

NO! NO MORE BIKES!....Unless it's free or:
Really old
A Rudge
A BSA
A Philips
...At least that's what I'm telling myself today.

agmetal 05-13-16 01:43 PM

Just had a BEAUTIFUL 1965 Sports in the shop earlier today, the thing was in near-pristine condition, with a brand new B-72 that just got installed on it recently. Didn't get any pictures, but it'll be back in for a proper tuneup next week, so I'll get some then.

slowtostart 05-13-16 02:53 PM

Has anyone used an aftermarket "Speedy Switch"? It looks very much like Sturmey-Archer shifters. Our LBS found one in a parts bin.

Thanks to Neal, my husband has a new shifter. On closer examination, the old cable seems to have a DIY crimp on the end which doesn't want to settle into its place in the shifter. Some time ago there was a discussion about replacement shifter cables. I plan to call Harris Cyclery tomorrow, but would appreciate any advice you may offer.

So many beautiful bikes here!

Salubrious 05-13-16 04:13 PM

I gotta 'Speedy Switch', I'm pretty sure. Its available to anyone that needs one, for the price of post.

BigChief 05-13-16 04:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by slowtostart (Post 18765414)
Has anyone used an aftermarket "Speedy Switch"? It looks very much like Sturmey-Archer shifters. Our LBS found one in a parts bin.

Thanks to Neal, my husband has a new shifter. On closer examination, the old cable seems to have a DIY crimp on the end which doesn't want to settle into its place in the shifter. Some time ago there was a discussion about replacement shifter cables. I plan to call Harris Cyclery tomorrow, but would appreciate any advice you may offer.

So many beautiful bikes here!

I have seen those cables with crimped on ends that are too large for SA trigger shifters. Aftermarket supplier? Sturmey archer did sell crimped cables, but at least they were small enough to work. The best cables are these...A small end, silver brazed on and plain on the other end. Sometimes you can find just the cables if you already have a casing you can use. Or they come complete with the casinf and a pinch bolt adapter that screws on to the indicator chain.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=521493

gster 05-13-16 04:54 PM


Originally Posted by slowtostart (Post 18765414)
Has anyone used an aftermarket "Speedy Switch"? It looks very much like Sturmey-Archer shifters. Our LBS found one in a parts bin.

Thanks to Neal, my husband has a new shifter. On closer examination, the old cable seems to have a DIY crimp on the end which doesn't want to settle into its place in the shifter. Some time ago there was a discussion about replacement shifter cables. I plan to call Harris Cyclery tomorrow, but would appreciate any advice you may offer.

So many beautiful bikes here!

Most bike shops carry new 3 speed cables, $8.00-$10.00

BigChief 05-13-16 06:42 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18765157)
Not that bike. I'm talking about a different Twenty. I have 3 Raleigh Twenty's and am working on different ones. The one I'm talking about is in pristine condition, and everything has been ultrasonically cleaned, lubed, new cable, etc.

It's all in my original post. No worries. It is what it is. 3Rd requires nudging. It works.

I'm surprised that a fresh clutch spring didn't solve the problem. The fact that the new spring prevented shifting into low has me totally stumped. But, I can't help but feel the long cable casing all the way to the clip on the stay is part of the problem. I have an S5 Sprite that used pretty much the same system, but the shifter was mounted on the top tube so the cable casing was even a bit shorter than your 20.
I hated the shifting. It was definitely a push/pull affair, so I modified it to the bare cable/pulley/trigger system and now it shifts perfectly. Fortunately, I could use standard parts. I'm thinking that while the long casing system might work for some hubs, it might not for others. Back when they first designed the shifting system, they went out of their way to cut friction by using a pulley instead of the usual cable guide. They must have been having some issues with shifting or they wouldn't have gone through all that trouble. Just a thought.

SirMike1983 05-13-16 08:16 PM

Sturmey Archer shifters are a topic unto themselves. There's a lot of history there. Generally, the 1940s-50s "upside down" type shifters are the highest quality. They start to decline in quality in the 1960s.

Early style handlebar "click" shifter from a late 1940s Raleigh Dawn Tourist I'm rebuilding.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jF9vyzkN2...513_213624.jpg

Narhay 05-13-16 09:03 PM

Thanks @Velocivixen I think your dropouts are different than the full size bikes. I'll have to maybe test it out at the coop.

Velocivixen 05-13-16 10:00 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 18766199)
Sturmey Archer shifters are a topic unto themselves. There's a lot of history there. Generally, the 1940s-50s "upside down" type shifters are the highest quality. They start to decline in quality in the 1960s.

Early style handlebar "click" shifter from a late 1940s Raleigh Dawn Tourist I'm rebuilding.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jF9vyzkN2...513_213624.jpg

Wow, that is gorgeous. Really sort a work of art. Thanks for sharing that. Let's see some of the bike as you move along.

BigChief 05-14-16 04:26 AM

Probably because I spent 30 years as a tool and die maker I appreciate the craftsmanship that went into these shifters. I like the embossed design on yours even better than these shifters from the 50s. Unfortunately, by the 60s they stopped using the embossed faceplates and simply silk screened the logo onto a plain plate and did away with the classy 2 piece pulley clip.
http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...s_shifters.jpg


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