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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

3alarmer 10-06-17 10:55 PM

Finally got this Sports repainted and rolling with some lighter weight modifications:
 
5 Attachment(s)
...for anyone considering using one of the new SA thumb shifters, the work great.:)

BigChief 10-07-17 05:04 AM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19913393)
@3speedslow love the bike!
Since I am returning to the addicti... I mean hobby the ones I have bought have been while uneducated, important purchases to me for learning and such.
I know I donít have a cool scorcher (not sure what the means I assume a faster 3 speed?) or a old 40ís or 50ís but I love them none the less. The 64 has a weird story that will remain a mystery and the 73 while apparently left in a big is 1 month younger than me :) They will both be ridden I promise and I have a special plan for the 73 ;)
Someday perhaps Iíll have a bike people will love as much as I do until then I need to figure out how to not break them lol

I have an emotional attachment to this sort of bike because as kids in the 60s on paper boy budgets, we would strip down old 3 speeds, flip the bars around and make our own "racing bikes". I'll admit to being guilty of blasting around town as fast as I could pretending I was riding a Rickman Triumph. The name scorcher goes back to the 1890s and describes troublesome young people blasting around on their bicycles, scaring the horses and generally being a nuisance. Which was exactly where I was at when I was 14 on my Rudge.

Scipunk 10-07-17 06:32 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19913569)
I have an emotional attachment to this sort of bike because as kids in the 60s on paper boy budgets, we would strip down old 3 speeds, flip the bars around and make our own "racing bikes". I'll admit to being guilty of blasting around town as fast as I could pretending I was riding a Rickman Triumph. The name scorcher goes back to the 1890s and describes troublesome young people blasting around on their bicycles, scaring the horses and generally being a nuisance. Which was exactly where I was at when I was 14 on my Rudge.

I can respect that BC. I guess I am the new guy and I get excited over things you all have experienced multiple times. I just want to fit in man *kicks a stone* lol

BigChief 10-07-17 07:02 AM


Originally Posted by 3alarmer (Post 19913400)
...for anyone considering using one of the new SA thumb shifters, the work great.:)

Very well done. What a nice set up. Bet it's a fun ride.

adventurepdx 10-07-17 10:09 AM


Originally Posted by 3alarmer (Post 19913400)
...for anyone considering using one of the new SA thumb shifters, the work great.:)

Nice! One of these days I'll make a three speed MTB and use the new SA thumb shifter.

I've used the modern SA bar end on the Wayfarer, and it works well too!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5593/1...4828ea7f_z.jpg

adventurepdx 10-07-17 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19912971)
I like to work on them but riding is still the reason to get them!

Well said!:thumb:

dweenk 10-07-17 11:44 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I have a Sprite down tube shifter for the 5 speed IGH. It has one broken lever (the 3 speed side), and I don't have a lot of confidence in the other lever either (both appear to be made of Delrin or something similar. It would be a pain to repair, since the levers are riveted onto the clamp; if someone would like to tackle this, I'll send them to a forum member for the cost of postage.

Scipunk 10-07-17 02:39 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 19914035)
Nice! One of these days I'll make a three speed MTB and use the new SA thumb shifter.

I've used the modern SA bar end on the Wayfarer, and it works well too!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5593/1...4828ea7f_z.jpg

First off i love those grips! Are they shellacked cork?

Second, how do you shift? Do you use your pinkie?

Oh and :
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4453/...718e3b81_b.jpgUntitled by David Ashe, on Flickr

plympton 10-07-17 02:41 PM

5 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19909713)
Good job on the teardown. Please keep the pictures coming. This is a very interesting project.

I haven't been doing much because the weather has been to good to be shut up in the workshop. I have tried every "green" stripper I could find. The paint doesn't want to leave after 65 years, it's become attached. This is after 5 applications:Attachment 583710

Attachment 583711

Attachment 583712

Attachment 583713

Attachment 583714

adventurepdx 10-07-17 02:52 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19914479)
First off i love those grips! Are they shellacked cork?

Yep, they are. Rivendell sells 'em.
https://www.rivbike.com/products/mie...ps-pair-normal


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19914479)
Second, how do you shift? Do you use your pinkie?

I take it you haven't had a bike with bar end shifters before. :D

I guess you can use your pinkie, but I usually use thumb and/or forefinger.

Scipunk 10-07-17 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 19914500)
Yep, they are. Rivendell sells 'em.
https://www.rivbike.com/products/mie...ps-pair-normal

Thanks for the link!


I take it you haven't had a bike with bar end shifters before. :D

I guess you can use your pinkie, but I usually use thumb and/or forefinger.

AHAHAHA you know that make way more sense now!

3speedslow 10-07-17 03:25 PM

I was out for an errand and got a chance to do some fast city riding. Turned around and found rain clouds blocking my way home. Stopped into the bike shop to get some water, down it came!

Waited a bit and it let up. Decided wet was going to happen so headed out. Not too bad. I was more interested in the strange movement of the left crank arm. When I got home I moved it around while holding the drive side, it is loose.

Is the best remedy to press the pin down some more or remove it? It seems far enough in, could be enough reason for new pins.

JohnDThompson 10-07-17 03:47 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19914549)
I was more interested in the strange movement of the left crank arm. When I got home I moved it around while holding the drive side, it is loose.

Is the best remedy to press the pin down some more or remove it? It seems far enough in, could be enough reason for new pins.

As long as it's loose, you may as well remove it and check for damage. Riding with a loose pin soon wears a gouge in the pin:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/worn-cotter.jpg

If the face of the pin isn't damaged, you can re-install it with a press (not a hammer). If you don't have a press, you can cobble up a serviceable substitute using a C-clamp and a wrench socket. The C-clamp will press on the head of the pin (not the threaded shaft) and the socket slips over the threaded shaft to give something for the other side of the C-clamp to work against.

If you do need to replace the pin, make sure you get the right diameter and be prepared to do some filing to get it to fit properly. Make sure you orient the pin so the crank arms are 180į from each other.

arty dave 10-07-17 05:22 PM

3speedslow I think it's the combo of the stem, bars and tyres that make this particular scorcher look like it's itching to go fast :)

OK I've done something bad and need your help and advice :twitchy:
I try to steer clear of chemicals as they make me feel ill after some unprotected exposure in a workplace years ago. But sometimes I use them to clean bike parts - I try to stick to citrus cleaner, vinegar, aluminium foil, brass brush, polish. Anyway - I forgot about the seat stay bolts I'd put in some de-rust to soak (main ingredient Phosphoric acid). I soak in a closed container so the fumes don't bother me, and (usually) check the parts after an hour max. This time I forgot all about them - Put them in Tuesday, took them out Saturday. This is what 5 days did to the bolts, the 2 on the L used to be exactly the same as the bolt on the R.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4508/...ce518186_c.jpgIMG20171008094157 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

I've measured the outside diameter of the threaded part at 6.35mm which converts exactly to 1/4". These bolts attach the removable seat stays to a DL-1. My questions are:
Am I right in assuming they are 26 tpi whitworth?
Would a bolt from an English motorcycle of the same era fit as a replacement?
Like these? 1/4 X 3/4 in CEI BOLT 26TPI PACK OF TEN | eBay
I could file down the heads to the right thickness.

I was sooo close to having it all back together and test riding this weekend :)

Scipunk 10-07-17 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 19914602)
As long as it's loose, you may as well remove it and check for damage. Riding with a loose pin soon wears a gouge in the pin:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/worn-cotter.jpg

If the face of the pin isn't damaged, you can re-install it with a press (not a hammer). If you don't have a press, you can cobble up a serviceable substitute using a C-clamp and a wrench socket. The C-clamp will press on the head of the pin (not the threaded shaft) and the socket slips over the threaded shaft to give something for the other side of the C-clamp to work against.

If you do need to replace the pin, make sure you get the right diameter and be prepared to do some filing to get it to fit properly. Make sure you orient the pin so the crank arms are 180į from each other.

What about the cotter pins from
Bicycle Crank Cotters
Would the Raleigh cut ones still need filing?

JohnDThompson 10-07-17 06:45 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19914876)
What about the cotter pins from
Bicycle Crank Cotters
Would the Raleigh cut ones still need filing?

Mark does note that he will file the Grade A pins to fit the Raleigh taper for a small added charge. Probably worth it, to make sure they're right (assuming you have a Raleigh, that is):

"The 9.5mm Grade A cotters are not cut deeply enough to be a good fit for Raleighs. For non-Raleigh owners, this is a good thing. Cotters cut to fit Raleighs go in too far for most other cranks. Filing cotters to fit whatever cranks you are working on used to be the norm.

"These days, not everyone is comfortable trying to file a pair of cotters to the correct depth and and at the same angle. So, I made a fixture that allows me to accurately remove more metal to make them a good fit for the typical Raleigh crank. Unfortunately modifying the cotters eats up time, so I have to charge $4.50 each for the modified ones vs. $3.50 for the unmodified cotters."

Scipunk 10-07-17 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 19914896)
Mark does note that he will file the Grade A pins to fit the Raleigh taper for a small added charge. Probably worth it, to make sure they're right (assuming you have a Raleigh, that is):

"The 9.5mm Grade A cotters are not cut deeply enough to be a good fit for Raleighs. For non-Raleigh owners, this is a good thing. Cotters cut to fit Raleighs go in too far for most other cranks. Filing cotters to fit whatever cranks you are working on used to be the norm.

"These days, not everyone is comfortable trying to file a pair of cotters to the correct depth and and at the same angle. So, I made a fixture that allows me to accurately remove more metal to make them a good fit for the typical Raleigh crank. Unfortunately modifying the cotters eats up time, so I have to charge $4.50 each for the modified ones vs. $3.50 for the unmodified cotters."

yeah i had noted that, and to me i am willing to spend the extra for correct cotters if i cannot reuse the ones in the 64. Sadly my 73 has the R nuts so i gotta be extra careful with those

Scipunk 10-07-17 06:56 PM

Side note as i don't have a bearing ruler, are all Raleigh sports BB bearings the same size? If not does anyone know the size on a 64?

arty dave 10-07-17 07:22 PM

Scipunk - should be 1/4"
I put my BB and cranks back on yesterday - I used my bench vice to press the cotters into place. That's how I got them out too...after breaking a c-clamp :(

SirMike1983 10-07-17 08:13 PM

Warm for a fall day here - got a ride in before it became dark.

https://thecabe.com/forum/attachment...515-jpg.688665

Scipunk 10-07-17 08:25 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19914934)
Scipunk - should be 1/4"
I put my BB and cranks back on yesterday - I used my bench vice to press the cotters into place. That's how I got them out too...after breaking a c-clamp :(

gotta love it...lol i may just go that route if i cant get it with the industrial c clamp i have!


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19915020)
Warm for a fall day here - got a ride in before it became dark.

https://thecabe.com/forum/attachment...515-jpg.688665

Gorgeous bike there sir!

3alarmer 10-07-17 08:32 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19914934)
Scipunk - should be 1/4"
I put my BB and cranks back on yesterday - I used my bench vice to press the cotters into place. That's how I got them out too...after breaking a c-clamp :(

.
...if you are not gonna use it very often, a cheap drill press vise with a socket for the negative space works too. Because it's smaller and more maneuverable, you can take it over to the bike, rather than wrestle the bike up onto the bench vise. I think they cost a little less than 20 bucks.

If you use one a lot, the screw handle usually gives out.

BigChief 10-07-17 09:04 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19914786)
3speedslow I think it's the combo of the stem, bars and tyres that make this particular scorcher look like it's itching to go fast :)

OK I've done something bad and need your help and advice :twitchy:
I try to steer clear of chemicals as they make me feel ill after some unprotected exposure in a workplace years ago. But sometimes I use them to clean bike parts - I try to stick to citrus cleaner, vinegar, aluminium foil, brass brush, polish. Anyway - I forgot about the seat stay bolts I'd put in some de-rust to soak (main ingredient Phosphoric acid). I soak in a closed container so the fumes don't bother me, and (usually) check the parts after an hour max. This time I forgot all about them - Put them in Tuesday, took them out Saturday. This is what 5 days did to the bolts, the 2 on the L used to be exactly the same as the bolt on the R.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4508/...ce518186_c.jpgIMG20171008094157 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

I've measured the outside diameter of the threaded part at 6.35mm which converts exactly to 1/4". These bolts attach the removable seat stays to a DL-1. My questions are:
Am I right in assuming they are 26 tpi whitworth?
Would a bolt from an English motorcycle of the same era fit as a replacement?
Like these? 1/4 X 3/4 in CEI BOLT 26TPI PACK OF TEN | eBay
I could file down the heads to the right thickness.

I was sooo close to having it all back together and test riding this weekend :)

Wish I could help with this. Went to the exploded view and parts list at Sheldon brown and it's listed simply as "bolt". I can say this. A chart of British Standard Fine bolts list a 1/4"x 26tpi. If Raleigh used these or whatever CEI is, I don't know. And whether CEI and BSF have the same thread pitch is another I don't know. Tapping it out and using a regular 1/4x 28 tpi bolt may be another option.

JohnDThompson 10-07-17 09:11 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19914908)
Side note as i don't have a bearing ruler, are all Raleigh sports BB bearings the same size? If not does anyone know the size on a 64?

All the Raleigh 3-speed bottom brackets I have worked on have used 1/4" balls.

JohnDThompson 10-07-17 09:16 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19914902)
Sadly my 73 has the R nuts so i gotta be extra careful with those

The "R" is just a little disc pressed into the hole in the nut. I haven't tried it myself, but you may be able to push the "R" disc out of the Raleigh nut and press it into the replacement nut.


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