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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 05-11-19 06:45 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20924081)
The nice thing about using an early 70s SuperCourse for such a conversion is that they don't have a derailleur hanger and are spaced at 120mm in the rear triangle, so a 3-speed hub with a 6 1/4" axle will fit without serious modification. Running cable stops and pulley wheels can be a bit fiddly, but quite do-able. Last weekend I had my '73 SuperCourse equipped with a 5-speed rear hub out for a 30 miler.

https://live.staticflickr.com/979/41...9ea84d96_c.jpg

I really like that colour.

gster 05-11-19 06:53 AM


Originally Posted by julius rensch (Post 20923769)
gster knows alot about these English 3 speeds....wondering, have you ever run across a Sturmey Archer 4 speed ? ....my friend had a 1953 Indian Scout so equiped...the additional speed was labeled "B" just below Low.(#1)
....my Indian had the conventional S/A 3 speed. Both of our cycles were imported by the Indian Motorcycle dealer in Toledo, Ohio...we bought them new, in the crate.

Julius in Ohio

I've never seen a 4 speed hub, but I know about those Indian Scouts.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7147033ad2.jpg
They were re branded Phillips bicycles
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...66429cdf46.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b27f07ebf.jpg

https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...dian-3-speeds/

BigChief 05-11-19 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by julius rensch (Post 20923769)
gster knows alot about these English 3 speeds....wondering, have you ever run across a Sturmey Archer 4 speed ? ....my friend had a 1953 Indian Scout so equiped...the additional speed was labeled "B" just below Low.(#1)
....my Indian had the conventional S/A 3 speed. Both of our cycles were imported by the Indian Motorcycle dealer in Toledo, Ohio...we bought them new, in the crate.

Julius in Ohio

Sturmey Archer made plenty of 4 speeds. Mostly they were used on the higher end club style bikes. Roadsters were usually 3 speeds. From the late 40s till around 1955, all the trigger shifters were made to work on both 3 and 4 speed hubs, so you'll see older 3 speed roadsters with shifters marked 3 or 4 speed.

julius rensch 05-11-19 07:40 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20924496)

Thanks for the cool displays on the Indian Scout....I was just a kid of 12 yrs riding mine, while all my Bud's were still labouring along on the big, clunky, Shelbys, J.C. Higgins, & Schwinns. Nice memories, thanks for helping me look back at the nostalgia.
all the best, Julius in Ohio

julius rensch 05-11-19 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20924541)
Sturmey Archer made plenty of 4 speeds. Mostly they were used on the higher end club style bikes. Roadsters were usually 3 speeds. From the late 40s till around 1955, all the trigger shifters were made to work on both 3 and 4 speed hubs, so you'll see older 3 speed roadsters with shifters marked 3 or 4 speed.

Thanks Big Chief, for the info...the very first Raleigh I remember appeared in my neighbourhood about 1952, it was brought back from England by an older kid that served in the U.S. Military over there.
It had drop handlebars. Sturmey Archer gears, Celluloid Fenders, rat trap pedals and 27 x 1 1/4 gum tyres...very light weight. The owner used to do 100 milers on weekends...needless to say we were impressed.

Julius in Ohio

gster 05-11-19 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by julius rensch (Post 20923769)
gster knows alot about these English 3 speeds....wondering, have you ever run across a Sturmey Archer 4 speed ? ....my friend had a 1953 Indian Scout so equiped...the additional speed was labeled "B" just below Low.(#1)
....my Indian had the conventional S/A 3 speed. Both of our cycles were imported by the Indian Motorcycle dealer in Toledo, Ohio...we bought them new, in the crate.

Julius in Ohio

I've never seen a 4 speed hub, but I know about those Indian Scouts.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7147033ad2.jpg
They were re branded Phillips bicycles
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...66429cdf46.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b27f07ebf.jpg

https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...dian-3-speeds/

browngw 05-11-19 08:54 AM

Although cool and grey yesterday, I took the opportunity to take a first ride on the just completed Royal Nord President (Belgian) with its English Brampton 3 speed setup (as original). To those contemplating using a 3 speed drivetrain on a lighter, quality frame, with alloy components, I say "go for it!" Weighing 12.5 lbs less than my DL1 Roadster with a 531SG frame, alloy 700-38C wheels and fairly light Pasela PT tires it feels like a racing machine. It has the raked forks and smooth ride but feels connected and sporty and less vague. The 17T cog is too high but is threaded and I have not yet found a bigger replacement.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2f89756a0c.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eacb07c749.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...16908cf182.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6452b59a18.jpg

gster 05-11-19 09:09 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20924630)
Although cool and grey yesterday, I took the opportunity to take a first ride on the just completed Royal Nord President (Belgian) with its English Brampton 3 speed setup (as original). To those contemplating using a 3 speed drivetrain on a lighter, quality frame, with alloy components, I say "go for it!" Weighing 12.5 lbs less than my DL1 Roadster with a 531SG frame, alloy 700-38C wheels and fairly light Pasela PT tires it feels like a racing machine. It has the raked forks and smooth ride but feels connected and sporty and less vague. The 17T cog is too high but is threaded and I have not yet found a bigger replacement.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2f89756a0c.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eacb07c749.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...16908cf182.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6452b59a18.jpg

Some nice details on this one.
How much do you think you've spent,
excluding labour, of course ?

browngw 05-11-19 09:54 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20924644)
Some nice details on this one.
How much do you think you've spent,
excluding labour, of course ?

Why did you have to ask that question? I was having a nice day!
Estimates as follows:
Bike $280
Saddle $150
Tires $100
Grips $10
Cables $40
Pedals $60
Bearings etc. $10
Hand painted details Priceless!

Grand Total $ 650.00
I have set a new personal record on a single vintage bike. It seems like a lot of money, but I was at the LBS yesterday and I could not buy much with that.

nlerner 05-11-19 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20924630)
Although cool and grey yesterday, I took the opportunity to take a first ride on the just completed Royal Nord President (Belgian) with its English Brampton 3 speed setup (as original). To those contemplating using a 3 speed drivetrain on a lighter, quality frame, with alloy components, I say "go for it!" Weighing 12.5 lbs less than my DL1 Roadster with a 531SG frame, alloy 700-38C wheels and fairly light Pasela PT tires it feels like a racing machine. It has the raked forks and smooth ride but feels connected and sporty and less vague. The 17T cog is too high but is threaded and I have not yet found a bigger replacement.

Thatís a great bike! You perhaps know this, but you can replace the threaded driver with a conventional three-notch one and then have a much wider range of cogs to choose from. However, I do have a bunch of threaded cogs and will check to see if I have anything bigger than 17t.

gster 05-11-19 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20924688)
Why did you have to ask that question? I was having a nice day!
Estimates as follows:
Bike $280
Saddle $150
Tires $100
Grips $10
Cables $40
Pedals $60
Bearings etc. $10
Hand painted details Priceless!

Grand Total $ 650.00
I have set a new personal record on a single vintage bike. It seems like a lot of money, but I was at the LBS yesterday and I could not buy much with that.

Sorry, just curious.
I can see how much attention
has been applied to this one.

BigChief 05-11-19 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20924630)
Although cool and grey yesterday, I took the opportunity to take a first ride on the just completed Royal Nord President (Belgian) with its English Brampton 3 speed setup (as original). To those contemplating using a 3 speed drivetrain on a lighter, quality frame, with alloy components, I say "go for it!" Weighing 12.5 lbs less than my DL1 Roadster with a 531SG frame, alloy 700-38C wheels and fairly light Pasela PT tires it feels like a racing machine. It has the raked forks and smooth ride but feels connected and sporty and less vague. The 17T cog is too high but is threaded and I have not yet found a bigger replacement.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2f89756a0c.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eacb07c749.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...16908cf182.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6452b59a18.jpg

What a cool bike. I really like this one. Got to ask...Where did you find those braided cable housings?

browngw 05-11-19 02:44 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20924893)
What a cool bike. I really like this one. Got to ask...Where did you find those braided cable housings?

The cables are part of a Jagwire Road Bike Pro cable kit (Sterling silver) that I ordered from my LBS a couple of years ago. I bought two, used one on my old Dilecta Le Blanc, and just before I got the RN gave the other to a friend who actually gave it back for this special project! Those sets are not available in silver now and are quite pricey but Jagwire does have a silver or gray listed as mountain bike cable. Whenever I find something I would like to put on a bike someday, I buy it if I can afford it. Even if I don't use it, it usually has value with other collector/builder friends. I am blessed to have two good bike friends and two bike shops to help finding parts and accessories. The two annual Canadian Vintage Bicycle Shows are a great way to find stuff and sell other things I come across.
Glad you like the Royal Nord, now believed to be around 1956-60. I expect I must have 160hours of fun building this bike. Now I may be selling my coffee 1972 Sports as this makes 3peed #4.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...23fd1bc48f.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...96bae0b005.jpg

BigChief 05-12-19 06:52 AM

Looks like they only make metallic braided housings. Oh well, looks like I'm back to my project of making them with tube shoe laces. Not that I have an early roadster project going now, but I have been putting up parts for one when it comes along and I'll be needing black braided housings.

paulb_in_bkln 05-12-19 08:18 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20924688)
Why did you have to ask that question? I was having a nice day!
Estimates as follows:
Bike $280
Saddle $150
Tires $100
Grips $10
Cables $40
Pedals $60
Bearings etc. $10
Hand painted details Priceless!

Grand Total $ 650.00
I have set a new personal record on a single vintage bike. It seems like a lot of money, but I was at the LBS yesterday and I could not buy much with that.

The wide Brooks saddles are so damned expensive. But they are worth it.

mixteup 05-12-19 08:19 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20925676)
Looks like they only make metallic braided housings. Oh well, looks like I'm back to my project of making them with tube shoe laces. Not that I have an early roadster project going now, but I have been putting up parts for one when it comes along and I'll be needing black braided housings.

Black braided housing -

https://www.missionbicycle.com/store...-cable-housing

gster 05-12-19 08:44 AM

Here's a one owner Superbe for sale in Toronto.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0ce9554f10.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c6503940e6.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3947de05dd.jpg
Complete
Nice chrome
Pump, saddlebag and key
$225.00

Road Fan 05-12-19 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20919554)
I've posted this before but it seems appropriate since it's a Canadian bike. The left side column of the Rim Chart shows the English sizes, of which there's two 28 x 1 1/4. One of them is a 630 mm/27" K2 which is easy enough to find. The next is an Endrick rim called an EA2 (sorry I said EA4, another obsolete size). This EA2 has the 80 inch bead circumference and is the equivalent to a 647 mm bead. The problem is that if and when you find these tires, they are always rotted out. I think real rubber didn't last long. This (your) Gold Medal is from the 50's however and just maybe, they did a run of these tires with a more modern compound. I seriously think there's a number of collectors on Vintage CCM that would pay well for this wheelset if it's the larger size.

The rim chart is rather amazing. Two of the rows in the "rim" column identify a rim "K2 27 x 1 1/4" with a circumference around 77.92 (actually 77.89) inches. This is the designator on my 1952 or so Dunlop Special Lightweight 27 x 1 1/4 rims, which take modern wire bead 630 x 32 mm. But the tire designator on the left-hand side says 28"!

clubman 05-12-19 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 20925997)
The rim chart is rather amazing. Two of the rows in the "rim" column identify a rim "K2 27 x 1 1/4" with a circumference around 77.92 (actually 77.89) inches. This is the designator on my 1952 or so Dunlop Special Lightweight 27 x 1 1/4 rims, which take modern wire bead 630 x 32 mm. But the tire designator on the left-hand side says 28"!

It's a small snapshot of tire sizing in North America at one moment in time that gives us a glimpse at how convoluted manufacturing standards and nomenclature could be and how they evolved in different countries, sometimes in isolation and other times with the co-operation of multiple trading partners.

Bloody run on sentence that tries too hard.

ryansu 05-12-19 12:53 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20924630)
Although cool and grey yesterday, I took the opportunity to take a first ride on the just completed Royal Nord President (Belgian) with its English Brampton 3 speed setup (as original). To those contemplating using a 3 speed drivetrain on a lighter, quality frame, with alloy components, I say "go for it!" Weighing 12.5 lbs less than my DL1 Roadster with a 531SG frame, alloy 700-38C wheels and fairly light Pasela PT tires it feels like a racing machine. It has the raked forks and smooth ride but feels connected and sporty and less vague. The 17T cog is too high but is threaded and I have not yet found a bigger replacement.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2f89756a0c.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eacb07c749.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...16908cf182.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6452b59a18.jpg

Beautiful Set up - I can't take my eyes off that chain guard - Gorgeous!

gster 05-12-19 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 20925997)
The rim chart is rather amazing. Two of the rows in the "rim" column identify a rim "K2 27 x 1 1/4" with a circumference around 77.92 (actually 77.89) inches. This is the designator on my 1952 or so Dunlop Special Lightweight 27 x 1 1/4 rims, which take modern wire bead 630 x 32 mm. But the tire designator on the left-hand side says 28"!

Those must be the same rims I just put tires on....
NOS Kendas 27" x 1 1/2" 37-630
they have an old style block tread and look appropriate.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...00756579a2.jpg
Old tires were Dunlop Speedsters @ 28" x 1 1/4" (Canadian size..)
I re used one original Dunlop tube
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...757d6024fe.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 05-13-19 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20924630)
Although cool and grey yesterday, I took the opportunity to take a first ride on the just completed Royal Nord President (Belgian) with its English Brampton 3 speed setup (as original). To those contemplating using a 3 speed drivetrain on a lighter, quality frame, with alloy components, I say "go for it!" Weighing 12.5 lbs less than my DL1 Roadster with a 531SG frame, alloy 700-38C wheels and fairly light Pasela PT tires it feels like a racing machine. It has the raked forks and smooth ride but feels connected and sporty and less vague. The 17T cog is too high but is threaded and I have not yet found a bigger replacement.

It doesn't seem like a crazy bill for a bike with a 531 frame (I don't know what SG means).

agmetal 05-13-19 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20927349)
It doesn't seem like a crazy bill for a bike with a 531 frame (I don't know what SG means).

"Straight Gauge", probably

browngw 05-13-19 08:26 AM

@agmetal is correct. SG is a common abbreviation for straight gauge instead of the lighter butted or double butted tubing.

paulb_in_bkln 05-14-19 04:26 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20927397)
@agmetal is correct. SG is a common abbreviation for straight gauge instead of the lighter butted or double butted tubing.

Right. (Slapping forehead.) A nice step up from the regular steel.


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