It can be done as well as a rear derailleur as the other option. They were a popular option in the late 50's/early 60's.
There's a guy on this forum from Bellville (I think) who built a nice one last year and posted pictures/progress etc.
There's math involved as well with sprocket teeth etc.
I tried to do one last year and messed up and broke
some spokes in the back wheel when the derailleur travelled to far.
I gave up but would like to try again.
I did buy a Cyclo derailleur recently and would
like to install.
Looks similar to this one
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c88c6f3586.jpg

Not mine. Very reasonable price.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...70829760232866

https://scontent.fric1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...dc&oe=60881796

There were some questions. When I did mine I got the shifters and derailleurs from an early 10 speed that an older kid broke the frame on. They were French manufactured with the rear being a Huret Allvet and the front ???? I know that is spelled wrong but I was 14 and am now 72. Surprisingly it actually shifted the wider 3 speed chain. At that age I didn't know there were different chains. Again from memory the rear sprockets were a 19 and 16. 2 SA sprockets fit on the hub if you left the spacers (washers) out and put the offsets on the sprockets so the big one faced to the center and the small one faced out. Roger

Hybrid IGH-derailleur conversions never really caught on for any period in time. They were often fussy and heavy. I'd try to persuade Max that an FW with a large cog is the best way to meet his needs and keeps the bikes character. He doesn't want to muck about with the hybrid, seeing as he doesn't pay attention to the rear spread on his bikes. You'd want to be hands-on. Or have his good friend Paul service it for him. ;)

Oh god. No good deed goes unpunished, does it?
PS Brompton seem to have made good use of the compound drive train trick.Few others, though.

I'd like to try an updated drivetrain. I really didn't like the only SA conversion I encountered.

This past December I was gifted a made in Italy Milano step through. It was pointed out to me that it used the wider chain like our three speeds. The first I had seen. Its a weird but somewhat fetching bike that could be restored or repurposed. Perhaps next winter.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7785aa8f10.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...df6ac633b7.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...67bcf595b9.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2fb44d7eb3.jpg

The black Simplex derailer gives a pretty good idea when it was made. I dunno. Asia has so completely taken over the production of bike frames that I think almost anything made somewhere else is worth preserving, and this one has some nice chrome and that low mixte configuration is something you don't see every day.

Those plastic grips are so ubiquitous. My ladies' Sports arrived with them and I've never thought to replace them. The Rivendell folks seem to love them, although they cover them with padding and weird stuff.

Can an FW hub be used without the correct SA four speed shifter? I ask only because it almost seems easier to find the hub at a reasonable price than a working SA trigger shifter.

No but there's more of them out there than you think. Many older triggers were designed for 3 or 4 speeds.

So SA's shifters for their current 4 speeds don't pull the right length of cable for the old models. Shucks.

Sorry, no I wasn't saying that. I'm so stuck in the past, I didn't even know there were new 4 speed hubs and shifters available. Someone else know the answer?

The new hubs use a rotary shifter on the hub, not the pull chain, so it's probably too much to ask for. Maybe I'll drop them a line and ask.

At various times, I've swapped S5 hub guts and used the 3 cog Cyclo cluster and Benelux derailer to add gear range to my bikes. As you say, the toughest part of the job is finding the old parts. With parts in hand, both are easy to set up, and, I suspect, would be cheaper than having a whole new wheel built. I prefer the S5 conversion, and that is what I still have, but had no problems with the derailer either.

For the S5 conversion all you need to convert (aside from the hub) is a shifter for the left side of the hub, cable, and assorted cable stops/pulleys. You can swap the guts of the hub into your existing wheel as a unit. If the left side bellcrank is missing you can save some money by adapting the bellcrank from a Shimano 333 hub to fit instead of buying the pricey SA part. A nice feature of the S5 hub is that all of the common wear parts (bearing surfaces, clutch, pawls, etc...) interchange with the AW. This was fortunate for me, since both of my S5s came from junkyard bikes and had suffered badly from water intrusion.

The only tricky part of the derailer conversion was adjusting the chain guard so that it didn't rub when I was on the outer cogs in the cluster. I think I had to bend it a bit, but didn't have to cut anything. On a newer frame with the brazed on chainguard mounts this might be tougher to set up. I used the Cyclo 3 cog cluster and Benelux pull-chain derailer and they mounted up and worked fine. My Cyclo cluster was slightly wider than the hub driver, so I had to add a small spacer spacer to each side of the hub axle in order to make enough room on the drive side and keep the wheel centered. I don't think you'd have to do this if you used the 2 back-to-back SA cogs mentioned above by another poster.

-Carl

All great information. I have so many AWs that I have lifted off derelict street bikes, but despite keeping my eye peeled, I have never come across a four or five speed.

That is a good deal.
And a Rudge!

Neat, a Berceau ("cradle") frame. I got a similar Chiorda in '83 that I built up into an MTB for my then-girlfriend, now wife. We sold it twice; once to a friend for his daughter and he gave it back when she grew out of it, and again to a guy who wanted the drum-brake wheels for a project. I also gave him the original fork so he could return it to roadbikehood. That Thun bottom bracket likely has originally-painted-and-never-used Italian threading behind those press-in cups.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...07a41d6be6.jpg

I have seen 1/2" x 1/8" chain on a derailleur bike but only on a three- or four-speed cluster. My little 500A Flandria had that.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18dabb9d14.jpg

Two word answer from Sun Race USA whether one of the current four-speed shifters will work with a vintage hub like the FW. "Sorry, no."

Some more words about that: Find out how much cable pull is required, and then laser-cut a replacement notch assembly for a SRAM rebuildable trigger shifter to pull and latch the correct spacing.

-Kurt

The 3/4 speed triggers were produced in the thousands.
They're out there and quite nicely designed.
Ask around, LBS, Community bike shops etc.
Stay away from ebay/crazy prices.

So, I’m at a loss, where the heck does this thing go? Lol, I’ve looked at a bunch of diagrams and videos and can’t find one that has this spacer. I’m thinking someone had this hub apart since some things weren’t in correctly based off of what I’ve seen. I also am missing the smaller washers, #4 in the diagram.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2e6e5a9d8.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b481a91dc.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...51020470b.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9ccec2078.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...677f4ce9b0.png

Looks like a #4 from the diagram but from a Dynohub.....
Should still work.

Newish SA left-hand axle spacer, before they changed to thick left-hand nuts.

-Kurt

That’s weird! Wonder why it’s on here lol

ok thanks, what numbers would this piece fall between? I’m going to go to the local store and get some washers to replace #4 I think today, I couldn’t get the wheel in with the thick space in the mix.


EDIT: I’m a dummy, got it figured out! Thanks