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Love those Raleigh kickstand! Such a smart design.
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Originally Posted by Panurgist
(Post 23232009)
Brilliant! Thanks much.
The sturdiness of the AW hub is obvious since I am still regularly riding on one from 1952 that has all it's original bits. I pulled mine down, cleaned out the nasty-fied oily gunk and re-assembled with fresh oil - works like a champ. Unfortunately relying on a cable not to stretch or a clamp not to slip was not a realistic solution. For the non-mechanically inclined it only has to drop into freewheel once, at the wrong moment, to lose confidence in the machine forever. |
Warm, humid evening here last night (for May at least).
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...215838_179.jpg |
Originally Posted by Panurgist
(Post 23232009)
Unfortunately relying on a cable not to stretch or a clamp not to slip was not a realistic solution. For the non-mechanically inclined it only has to drop into freewheel once, at the wrong moment, to lose confidence in the machine forever.
The late Sheldon Brown pointed out that tens of millions of cyclists employed the AW without issue. The AW is not idiot-proof. Hmm. What on a bicycle is? |
Originally Posted by tcs
(Post 23234856)
The late Jobst Brandt said the AW was unconditionally unacceptable.
The late Sheldon Brown pointed out that tens of millions of cyclists employed the AW without issue. The AW is not idiot-proof. Hmm. What on a bicycle is? He probably didn't know how to set it up. The AW has some arcane quirks. |
Brandt was a very bright guy, but sometimes his advice focused on his engineering theory of a matter rather than how it actually worked out in practice. He tended to denigrate things he didn't agree with. I recall one usenet discussion where he basically told another person that the guy's old Schwinn 3 speed was not a real bike. Sheldon's explanation addressed Jobst's complaint about the AW.
Brandt was not alone in his thinking though. I remember once being laughed out of a bike shop in DC because I came in with a Raleigh Sports. There's always been a small but vocal group of "serious cyclists" who sneer at old 3 speed bikes. |
Originally Posted by SirMike1983
(Post 23234965)
Brandt was a very bright guy, but sometimes his advice focused on his engineering theory of a matter rather than how it actually worked out in practice. He tended to denigrate things he didn't agree with. I recall one usenet discussion where he basically told another person that the guy's old Schwinn 3 speed was not a real bike. Sheldon's explanation addressed Jobst's complaint about the AW.
Brandt was not alone in his thinking though. I remember once being laughed out of a bike shop in DC because I came in with a Raleigh Sports. There's always been a small but vocal group of "serious cyclists" who sneer at old 3 speed bikes. If you ever encounter such again, ask which is better for training! Maybe they are just being nice but I don't get laughs at my 3 speeds when I bring them to my LBSs. But 3-speeds are part of cycling history such as my Bates or my '35 roadster. My bike that gets the most compliments when I'm out on a ride, whether road, mountain or whatever, is my 1972 Raleigh Superbe. |
It has a lot to do with the culture of a particular shop. Funny thing was after that happened, I went next door to a competing shop, and they really appreciated the condition of the old Raleigh Sports. People tend to gravitate to others with similar perspectives. Two shops on the same block with totally different ways of looking at it. This was probably 21-22 years ago.
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Originally Posted by SirMike1983
(Post 23234965)
Brandt was a very bright guy, but sometimes his advice focused on his engineering theory of a matter rather than how it actually worked out in practice. He tended to denigrate things he didn't agree with. I recall one usenet discussion where he basically told another person that the guy's old Schwinn 3 speed was not a real bike. Sheldon's explanation addressed Jobst's complaint about the AW.
Brandt was not alone in his thinking though. I remember once being laughed out of a bike shop in DC because I came in with a Raleigh Sports. There's always been a small but vocal group of "serious cyclists" who sneer at old 3 speed bikes. Brandt was bright and also an iconoclast that did things in a very unique, deliberate, and sometimes confounding way. I read somewhere else that he got a new frame built yearly (or every other year) because he put so much abuse on his bikes, and that he always chose yellow paint because it would show cracks the easiest. Jobst would do serious "gravel"/MTB rides with high gearing and slick, narrow tires on a road bike. He would never carry water, instead he knew where water was and would stick his head into the spring or creek and drink. He also looked sideways when Tom Ritchey rolled up on a bike he had built himself, wondering if it would be up for the task. I admire folks like him, but just like I do with Jan Heine, I take their recommendations with a grain of salt. But Brandt wasn't unique in the practice of denigrating three speeds. That was common practice amongst many American men who got serious about cycling in the 60s and 70s. This was an era when adult biking (at least in the 60s) wasn't a thing, so those who aspired to it looked at racing bikes from Europe for inspiration. Three speeds was what they'd find in department stores, hardware stores, or the basic bike shops, and admittedly a lot of the three speeds available here (that wasn't imported from the UK) were heavy and of mediocre quality. That bias got passed down through the ages, especially through the pages of bike magazines and books. Look at the bike books from that era--they might talk about three speed maintenance because they were common, but there was an air of "If you're serious about this, you'll soon leave that three speed behind and upgrade to a fine machine from Italy or maybe France." (Not Japan just yet.) And that bias is still hard to shake. |
Originally Posted by adventurepdx
(Post 23236045)
Brandt was bright and also an iconoclast that did things in a very unique, deliberate, and sometimes confounding way. I read somewhere else that he got a new frame built yearly (or every other year) because he put so much abuse on his bikes, and that he always chose yellow paint because it would show cracks the easiest. Jobst would do serious "gravel"/MTB rides with high gearing and slick, narrow tires on a road bike. He would never carry water, instead he knew where water was and would stick his head into the spring or creek and drink. He also looked sideways when Tom Ritchey rolled up on a bike he had built himself, wondering if it would be up for the task. I admire folks like him, but just like I do with Jan Heine, I take their recommendations with a grain of salt.
But Brandt wasn't unique in the practice of denigrating three speeds. That was common practice amongst many American men who got serious about cycling in the 60s and 70s. This was an era when adult biking (at least in the 60s) wasn't a thing, so those who aspired to it looked at racing bikes from Europe for inspiration. Three speeds was what they'd find in department stores, hardware stores, or the basic bike shops, and admittedly a lot of the three speeds available here (that wasn't imported from the UK) were heavy and of mediocre quality. That bias got passed down through the ages, especially through the pages of bike magazines and books. Look at the bike books from that era--they might talk about three speed maintenance because they were common, but there was an air of "If you're serious about this, you'll soon leave that three speed behind and upgrade to a fine machine from Italy or maybe France." (Not Japan just yet.) And that bias is still hard to shake. But some of the fading manufacturers, like Murray and Columbia, were turning out some rather weak offerings by way of three speed bikes in that malaise time. Then there were the department store bikes like the Free Spirit, and some of the Huffy bikes that were just kind of cheap overall. I've seen a fair number of these bikes with broken frame or separated weld joints at the rear of the frame. Then many of the budget level components were cheap. I suppose if your experience with a three speed was on a 1980s Columbia where the rear dropout decided to detach itself during a ride, you'd be turned off on three speed bikes. Still, it's unfair to lump them all together. I suppose it was sort like the snobbery that plagued the Schwinn Varsity. Perhaps the Varsity took it even worse. |
Parts find of the week - an unused front hub for a Schwinn 3 speed with its original box. Neat stuff. This one is a dural hub from the late 1940s or early 1950s.
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...505_144022.jpg https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...505_164407.jpg |
Originally Posted by SirMike1983
(Post 23236223)
You make a good point. There was a malaise era for some of these bikes in the 1970s into the 1980s. The Raleigh products were generally good, as were the Schwinn products. Some of the Japanese and French brands also made decent 3 speed bikes, and then Schwinn was also importing Taiwanese Giant-made three speeds at the end.
But some of the fading manufacturers, like Murray and Columbia, were turning out some rather weak offerings by way of three speed bikes in that malaise time. Then there were the department store bikes like the Free Spirit, and some of the Huffy bikes that were just kind of cheap overall. I've seen a fair number of these bikes with broken frame or separated weld joints at the rear of the frame. Then many of the budget level components were cheap. I suppose if your experience with a three speed was on a 1980s Columbia where the rear dropout decided to detach itself during a ride, you'd be turned off on three speed bikes. Still, it's unfair to lump them all together. I suppose it was sort like the snobbery that plagued the Schwinn Varsity. Perhaps the Varsity took it even worse. As an aside, for further research: The fascinating case of Ross, who were basically a third-tier American maker in the vein of Iverson until the mid-80s, when they decided to make some nice mountain bikes that are now fairly desirable. Anyways, it is true that there were differences in quality in the American and British three speeds during the bike boom era. But my central thesis isn't that. It's the fact that all three speeds, no matter the quality, were considered junk by a certain type of bike snob. And that thinking got passed down through the ages, which makes it hard to shake, even now. And that's a shame. Three speeds are great everyday bikes for most riders, especially those who are using their bikes for commuting or utility purposes. Compare that to the bikes those snobs considered great: Lightweight machines good for going fast and far but not as good for other uses. |
Originally Posted by Panurgist
(Post 23232009)
Unfortunately relying on a cable not to stretch or a clamp not to slip was not a realistic solution. For the non-mechanically inclined it only has to drop into freewheel once, at the wrong moment, to lose confidence in the machine forever.
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After the purchase of a Super Course, my Raleigh-esque stable is growing. Not all 3 speeds and technically not all mine. The 72 green Sports started it all when I rescued it from 30+ years in the dank cellar of a house we bought. I found the 67 Robin Hood Lenton Sports when I was looking for parts for the 3 speed. And I bought the 67 ish Triumph for a Triumph sports car friend who has yet to pick it up. One of these days I'll bring the Sports for a nice, relatively level bike path ride. Meanwhile, the Super Course does well for the hilly terrain in my neighborhood.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...976bf73f88.jpg |
Originally Posted by swampyankee2
(Post 23239801)
After the purchase of a Super Course, my Raleigh-esque stable is growing. Not all 3 speeds and technically not all mine. The 72 green Sports started it all when I rescued it from 30+ years in the dank cellar of a house we bought. I found the 67 Robin Hood Lenton Sports when I was looking for parts for the 3 speed. And I bought the 67 ish Triumph for a Triumph sports car friend who has yet to pick it up. One of these days I'll bring the Sports for a nice, relatively level bike path ride. Meanwhile, the Super Course does well for the hilly terrain in my neighborhood.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...976bf73f88.jpg Raleigh produced the Robin Hood cycles, but always regarded them as part of a budget range, sold through dealers who weren't the (favoured) exclusive Raleigh outlets. |
Yes, the Lenton Sports is basically a rebadged Raleigh Sprite. But it's a unique bike in very nice shape. The original owner had removed the fenders so they didn't see years of youthful abuse, but he still had them.
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1947 Schwinn Continental out for a ride earlier this evening. The leaves have really filled in on the plants here over the past week or so.
https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...514_173728.jpg |
Raleigh DL-1
A Raleigh DL-1 on Long Island. A bit rusty, but the price helps soften that some.
Vintage Raleigh Rod Brake - Craigslist Long Island https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4138aff77d.png |
Originally Posted by Velo Mule
(Post 23240433)
A Raleigh DL-1 on Long Island. A bit rusty, but the price helps soften that some.
Vintage Raleigh Rod Brake - Craigslist Long Island https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4138aff77d.png |
.
I found this in a thrift store a while ago, I didn't need it. I'm more interested in 1970's 10 speeds, but I had to have the bell.... https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...10eeb8c35d.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ba8733d472.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0a61892863.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5744356a40.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b19709a128.jpg |
Sturmey-Archer bearing cage?
I've already posted this to the mechanics forum, but answers are more likely to come from this group.
I was gifted a Royal Scot (made by Raleigh?) 3-speed and it immediately became my favorite city bike. Coincidentally, like the one above. Btw, is this made by Raleigh? Sheldon Brown says it's a NYC bike shop house brand. I figured it was a Raleigh because I had a Huffy that looked 100% the same, and it had a "made by Raleigh" decal on it. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c9b570e65.jpg I added a bit of 90W gear oil and it started acting up. I was hearing some grinding on one ride, but it went away. Later it got a little wobbly and I had problems adjusting the bearing play. Pulling it apart today, the bearing cage is obviously trashed. Normally I would eliminate the cage, but without it the bearings fall into the hub. This is a cup design issue/feature, as far as I can tell. Are these cages available anywhere? https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...94282362f3.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2e664b585.jpg Here's my exploded view. Can anyone comment on the sequence. I tried to lay them out in order but quickly mixed them up. I have an online exploded view, but the parts aren't the same as mine, close, but not the same. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8ec3a253d3.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8efc128eba.gif |
Originally Posted by SirMike1983
(Post 23234965)
I remember once being laughed out of a bike shop in DC because I came in with a Raleigh Sports. There's always been a small but vocal group of "serious cyclists" who sneer at old 3 speed bikes.
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Originally Posted by sunburst
(Post 23241197)
I've already posted this to the mechanics forum, but answers are more likely to come from this group.
I was gifted a Royal Scot (made by Raleigh?) 3-speed and it immediately became my favorite city bike. Coincidentally, like the one above. Btw, is this made by Raleigh? Sheldon Brown says it's a NYC bike shop house brand. I figured it was a Raleigh because I had a Huffy that looked 100% the same, and it had a "made by Raleigh" decal on it. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c9b570e65.jpg I added a bit of 90W gear oil and it started acting up. I was hearing some grinding on one ride, but it went away. Later it got a little wobbly and I had problems adjusting the bearing play. Pulling it apart today, the bearing cage is obviously trashed. Normally I would eliminate the cage, but without it the bearings fall into the hub. This is a cup design issue/feature, as far as I can tell. Are these cages available anywhere? https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...94282362f3.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2e664b585.jpg Here's my exploded view. Can anyone comment on the sequence. I tried to lay them out in order but quickly mixed them up. I have an online exploded view, but the parts aren't the same as mine, close, but not the same. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8ec3a253d3.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8efc128eba.gif Are the parts shown from the drive side or the left side? |
[QUOTE][A Raleigh DL-1 on Long Island. A bit rusty, but the price helps soften that some.
Vintage Raleigh Rod Brake - Craigslist Long Island https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4138aff77d.pngI think that may be a 26 inch wheel Dawn series bike rather than a DL-1. Neat find. Looks like a challenge for someone who likes projects./QUOTE] It may be a Dawn and certainly it is very similar but I have one from 1952 and although it did have the rod brakes like this one and the 26 x 1 3/8 tires it also had a fully enclosed drive train. I thought that was part of the spec. Might be the later ones ditched the chain enclosure. The hub will be stamped with the year of manufacture and that would tell part of the story. I think the rim/tire size is the key, the DL1 had large diameter tires and very relaxed geometry. ( BTW I find that my Dawn steers and handles like a very modern bike. ) |
[QUOTE=Panurgist;23241250]
[A Raleigh DL-1 on Long Island. A bit rusty, but the price helps soften that some. [url=https://longisland.craigslist.org/bik/d/plainview-vintage-raleigh-rod-brake/7746344540.html]Vintage Raleigh Rod Brake - Craigslist Long Island https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4138aff77d.pngI think that may be a 26 inch wheel Dawn series bike rather than a DL-1. Neat find. Looks like a challenge for someone who likes projects./QUOTE] It may be a Dawn and certainly it is very similar but I have one from 1952 and although it did have the rod brakes like this one and the 26 x 1 3/8 tires it also had a fully enclosed drive train. I thought that was part of the spec. Might be the later ones ditched the chain enclosure. The hub will be stamped with the year of manufacture and that would tell part of the story. I think the rim/tire size is the key, the DL1 had large diameter tires and very relaxed geometry. ( BTW I find that my Dawn steers and handles like a very modern bike. ) |
Originally Posted by sunburst
(Post 23241197)
I've already posted this to the mechanics forum, but answers are more likely to come from this group.
I was gifted a Royal Scot (made by Raleigh?) 3-speed and it immediately became my favorite city bike. Coincidentally, like the one above. Btw, is this made by Raleigh? Sheldon Brown says it's a NYC bike shop house brand. I figured it was a Raleigh because I had a Huffy that looked 100% the same, and it had a "made by Raleigh" decal on it. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c9b570e65.jpg I added a bit of 90W gear oil and it started acting up. I was hearing some grinding on one ride, but it went away. Later it got a little wobbly and I had problems adjusting the bearing play. Pulling it apart today, the bearing cage is obviously trashed. Normally I would eliminate the cage, but without it the bearings fall into the hub. This is a cup design issue/feature, as far as I can tell. Are these cages available anywhere? https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...94282362f3.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2e664b585.jpg Here's my exploded view. Can anyone comment on the sequence. I tried to lay them out in order but quickly mixed them up. I have an online exploded view, but the parts aren't the same as mine, close, but not the same. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8ec3a253d3.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8efc128eba.gif Or you could use some grease and put the balls in loose. 30 weight oil is the usual recommendation for lubrication. People have used various oils and as long as there is oil in the hub, they seem to run. 90wt may be a bit too thick though. There are some good videos on rebuilding the AW hubs. Let us know if the hub is an AW. It will be stamped on the hub along with a date code. |
Raleigh 5 speed with 2 levers
hey, I have a weird question... I have a couple of Raleigh (matching pair) Sprite. They have 5 speed internal gearing hit. The girls bike has 2 levers on the top tube (well the top sloping tube).. My question, with 2 levers I would expect a 4 speed (AA,AB,BA, BB) or 6 speeds (AA, AB, AC, BA, BB, BC) but how in the world did they come up with 5 speeds????
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Originally Posted by jerrylis
(Post 23241337)
hey, I have a weird question... I have a couple of Raleigh (matching pair) Sprite. They have 5 speed internal gearing hit. The girls bike has 2 levers on the top tube (well the top sloping tube).. My question, with 2 levers I would expect a 4 speed (AA,AB,BA, BB) or 6 speeds (AA, AB, AC, BA, BB, BC) but how in the world did they come up with 5 speeds????
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Originally Posted by Velo Mule
(Post 23241319)
30 weight oil is the usual recommendation for lubrication. People have used various oils and as long as there is oil in the hub, they seem to run. 90wt may be a bit too thick though.
Sunburst said they used GEAR oil. GEAR oil viscosity is measured at a different temperature than MOTOR oil - cylinder walls typically being hotter than gearboxes. At the same temperature, 90wt GEAR oil runs through a viscosimeter about like 30wt MOTOR oil. Folks use all kinds of stuff to lubricate IGHs. It seems to be a game to use anything other than the manufacturer's recommendation. An IGH being gears, an argument can be made for using gear oil rather than motor oil. Tilting at windmills; it's a struggle to keep people from putting honey in the hubs. When in doubt: https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b29285c50.png |
Originally Posted by Velo Mule
(Post 23241319)
If this is an AW hub, that bearing looks to be a HSA284.
BTW, the balls are std. ¼". If one desires to stick them in with grease w/o the cage, use 10. |
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