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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Six jours 03-08-13 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15360352)
Six jours says Jasco did not harm his anodized rims so I may try that first.

Now you made me nervous. :p

It did work for me. I don't recall being careful to keep it off the sidewalls or anything. I do recall being a teenager who didn't really care one way or the other at the time. So maybe you should try to keep it off the sidewalls...

CV-6 03-08-13 10:09 PM


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 15360697)
I wonder if heating it up with a heat gun will soften it, Lynn, making it easier to get off. I'll put in with you, I don't like having to work with high test solvents, but I do when I have to. Half face respirator and heavy nitrile gloves of course.

It is already soft. I think if it were old and dried, I would not be writing this.


Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 15363487)
Now you made me nervous. :p

It did work for me. I don't recall being careful to keep it off the sidewalls or anything. I do recall being a teenager who didn't really care one way or the other at the time. So maybe you should try to keep it off the sidewalls...

Not to worry. There will be a test in a small area before I dip it in Jasco. ;)

Joope 03-10-13 03:53 AM

Hi!
I found some old tubulars from late 80s, they are soft, and holds the pressure in them. Is there a rule when a tyre is new enough to be ridden?

blamester 03-10-13 06:16 AM

This is a judgemant call.If they look good with no signs of perishing or rot they are
probably ok.Where they stored in a dry dark place with a fairly constant temp?
If you have doubts get new ones.

Chombi 03-10-13 09:17 AM

What you need to be careful with NOS tires is that the damage might be internal. The rubber/latex surfaces might look OK on the exterior of the tires but I've seen NOS tires where the bond between the carcass and the tread and most commonly, the base tape seems to be compromised, maybe because of some sort internal dry rot with the rubber and the glues applied in the factory. Maybe for short, "gentle" rides, 30+ year old tires might hold up OK, but they will never be as good or maybe as safe as new tires, IMO.

Chombi

Joope 03-10-13 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by blamester (Post 15367470)
This is a judgemant call.If they look good with no signs of perishing or rot they are
probably ok.Where they stored in a dry dark place with a fairly constant temp?
If you have doubts get new ones.

They look good, and has been stored in a garage with constant temperature around 18 Celsius.
Ive been thinking that maybe it would be best to buy some new ones at least to the front, but the old tires says that they are size 27, and it seems impossible to find tubulars in that size.

CV-6 03-10-13 10:04 AM

Final report on rim tape removal. Acetone did not cut it. I finally said screw it. and proceeded to apply glue. Checked this AM and it is one of the best glue jobs I have ever done, if I do say so. Part of that is the tires. Took some finessing, but the Challenges mounted nicely to the rims. Now for some decent weather. All that said, I am going back to tape. In the time it took me to do this job, I could have done at least two with tape.

dddd 03-10-13 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by Joope (Post 15367359)
Hi!
I found some old tubulars from late 80s, they are soft, and holds the pressure in them. Is there a rule when a tyre is new enough to be ridden?

I think Chombi covered this, but the biggest problem I've had with using old tubulars is that the glue attaching the base tape to the tire carcass somewhat dries up and can allow the tire to come right off of the rim with base tape left fiercely attached to the rim.

On a related note, having to pull a tire off of a rim with too much force can actually tear the base tape in some cases, so I usually use a "reverse-rolling" tire iron under the tire as I slowly work my way around the rim (pulling the iron toward me, while rotating the iron) when removing tires that have a particularly high level of adhesion with the rim. So much for a quick, on-the-road tire change on a fast-paced training ride.

And I've actually taken ~ten-year-old Continental tubulars out of their orange boxes with the base tape literally falling off, which the vendor didn't disclose btw...

I usually clean rims while mounted in a rigidly-mounted trueing stand. First by spinning the wheel and using a box-cutting blade as a scraper.
I use every edge of these blades, and reverse the wheel to do more scraping in the opposite direction.
The idea being to get strips of the glue to come away from the rim completely with low force applied to the blade and wearing protective gloves.
I believe that the remaining glue settles in very well with the freshly applied stuff, giving uniform adhesion and allowing an accurately mounted tire.

Both tire casing shape and rim cavity shape can really affect the way a tire bonds to a rim, particularly with tape.
Tufo's tape is designed to be used with their seamless tires, which lay down a perfect radius into the rim cavity.
Rims with internal eyelets and tires with bulky seams will need a thicker layer of glue buildup to allow continuous adhesion of the tire mating to the rim, whereas a Tufo tire on an eyelettless rim can achieve fierce adhesion with but a layer of tape.

One more big variable is that some tire's base tape will soak up a couple of glue applications, while some others allow the glue layer to build up immediately with little or no absorbtion. This can mess with the gluer's expectations in terms of the time required and the quantity of glue that may be needed (i.e. LOTS). It sometimes takes 3 tubes of glue to bond a pair of tires, so better to just have a big can of the stuff around from the beginning!

Any gaps between tire and rim can allow dirt between the tire and rim, with resulting creeping bond failure in response to motion and forces.
This has sometimes been a problem in cyclocross, with the ever-present dirt and heavy flexing of the tire casing, if the initial bonding wasn't firm and continuous.

A crooked front valve stem, after mounting is completed, can be corrected by installing the wheel in the correct direction and dragging the front brake to induce rim heating. The onset of creep, in terms of temperature, can be fairly abrupt, so one must keep an eye on things during this operation, but after it's done the bond is likely at it's best the next day. This additional melting helping to settle the tire and rim surfaces together at the glue layer. Many tubular glues are also subject to melting in use when descending longer hills using the brakes, so keep this in mind as to this potential danger. A suddenly-tilted valve stem might be your last and only warning.

RobbieTunes 03-10-13 05:03 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15367897)
Final report on rim tape removal. Acetone did not cut it. I finally said screw it. and proceeded to apply glue. Checked this AM and it is one of the best glue jobs I have ever done, if I do say so. Part of that is the tires. Took some finessing, but the Challenges mounted nicely to the rims. Now for some decent weather. All that said, I am going back to tape. In the time it took me to do this job, I could have done at least two with tape.

I attacked my last two HED's with the drill-mounted wire brush. It took about 20 minutes a wheel to get the residue to a very thin level, with the rim showing through. Yes, the heat from the brush spread it out a bit, but 90% of it came off. 10min per wheel with mineral spirits and they were as clean as new. 10min per tire, not even pre-stretched, with tape, and they're on the bike and doing fine. I rode it 1/2 mile to seat them, and they've got 130ps in them ride fine.

I actually feel as good about getting all that residue off the wheels as I do about mounting the tires. Now, I'll go after the spares that I removed, so I have enough spares for all the bikes running tubular....

Vonruden 03-16-13 04:53 AM

Track tubs advice
 
Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on selecting some Tubular tires for my Olmo Track bike with Mavic GEL 280's. There is a local asphalt track, which is where I am hoping do some rides, so they would be riden mostly on asphalt. Prefer tan side walls. Any opinions or sites with good deals? I would prefer to stay in the $50-$75 per tire range. Thanks in advance!

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psed42a165.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...ps11fa4933.jpg

gomango 03-16-13 06:45 AM


Originally Posted by Vonruden (Post 15393160)
Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on selecting some Tubular tires for my Olmo Track bike with Mavic GEL 280's. There is a local asphalt track, which is where I am hoping do some rides, so they would be riden mostly on asphalt. Prefer tan side walls. Any opinions or sites with good deals? I would prefer to stay in the $50-$75 per tire range. Thanks in advance!

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psed42a165.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...ps11fa4933.jpg

Challenge Pista 320 tubulars. Available from Ribble and in your price range.

Will wear quickly on asphalt tracks.

For more road use, go with Conti Sprinters.

They are fine for your purpose.

Oh yeah, spring10 is your 10% discount code!

Vonruden 03-16-13 08:16 AM


Originally Posted by gomango (Post 15393308)
Challenge Pista 320 tubulars. Available from Ribble and in your price range.

Will wear quickly on asphalt tracks.

For more road use, go with Conti Sprinters.

They are fine for your purpose.

Oh yeah, spring10 is your 10% discount code!

awesome, thanks!!!

dveneman 03-16-13 08:18 AM

I think your post has some great advice. I like the razor blades/trueing stand tip. That seems like a good trick for shaving the big stuff off. Thank you for sharing!!!!

Originally Posted by dddd (Post 15369097)
I think Chombi covered this, but the biggest problem I've had with using old tubulars is that the glue attaching the base tape to the tire carcass somewhat dries up and can allow the tire to come right off of the rim with base tape left fiercely attached to the rim.

On a related note, having to pull a tire off of a rim with too much force can actually tear the base tape in some cases, so I usually use a "reverse-rolling" tire iron under the tire as I slowly work my way around the rim (pulling the iron toward me, while rotating the iron) when removing tires that have a particularly high level of adhesion with the rim. So much for a quick, on-the-road tire change on a fast-paced training ride.

And I've actually taken ~ten-year-old Continental tubulars out of their orange boxes with the base tape literally falling off, which the vendor didn't disclose btw...

I usually clean rims while mounted in a rigidly-mounted trueing stand. First by spinning the wheel and using a box-cutting blade as a scraper.
I use every edge of these blades, and reverse the wheel to do more scraping in the opposite direction.
The idea being to get strips of the glue to come away from the rim completely with low force applied to the blade and wearing protective gloves.
I believe that the remaining glue settles in very well with the freshly applied stuff, giving uniform adhesion and allowing an accurately mounted tire.

Both tire casing shape and rim cavity shape can really affect the way a tire bonds to a rim, particularly with tape.
Tufo's tape is designed to be used with their seamless tires, which lay down a perfect radius into the rim cavity.
Rims with internal eyelets and tires with bulky seams will need a thicker layer of glue buildup to allow continuous adhesion of the tire mating to the rim, whereas a Tufo tire on an eyelettless rim can achieve fierce adhesion with but a layer of tape.

One more big variable is that some tire's base tape will soak up a couple of glue applications, while some others allow the glue layer to build up immediately with little or no absorbtion. This can mess with the gluer's expectations in terms of the time required and the quantity of glue that may be needed (i.e. LOTS). It sometimes takes 3 tubes of glue to bond a pair of tires, so better to just have a big can of the stuff around from the beginning!

Any gaps between tire and rim can allow dirt between the tire and rim, with resulting creeping bond failure in response to motion and forces.
This has sometimes been a problem in cyclocross, with the ever-present dirt and heavy flexing of the tire casing, if the initial bonding wasn't firm and continuous.

A crooked front valve stem, after mounting is completed, can be corrected by installing the wheel in the correct direction and dragging the front brake to induce rim heating. The onset of creep, in terms of temperature, can be fairly abrupt, so one must keep an eye on things during this operation, but after it's done the bond is likely at it's best the next day. This additional melting helping to settle the tire and rim surfaces together at the glue layer. Many tubular glues are also subject to melting in use when descending longer hills using the brakes, so keep this in mind as to this potential danger. A suddenly-tilted valve stem might be your last and only warning.


dveneman 03-16-13 08:22 AM

"Rims are gold anodized. Jasco will likely remove the anodizing. Don't think I will go there". There is no chance Jasco will hurt anodizing. Is there?

Grand Bois 03-16-13 09:18 AM


Originally Posted by dveneman (Post 15393532)
"Rims are gold anodized. Jasco will likely remove the anodizing. Don't think I will go there". There is no chance Jasco will hurt anodizing. Is there?

I use Jasco to remove painted logos from anodized parts. It has no effect on the anodizing. Could you be confusing what you read about oven cleaner with paint stripper? You wouldn't be the first.

SJX426 04-01-13 07:22 AM

Bought the 2 for $50 from YJ several months ago. Mounted them on extra rims to stretch and to store. Finally got around to mounting them without glue to check them out. One had a slight bulge near the valve stem. I called YJ to ask for guidence. They stated that with cotton casings it is very important to stretch them before mounting and to moun from the stem to the opposite side of the rim. All of which I did and stated so including my history of using tubulars back in the late 60's and early 70's.

They said to send it back for a replacement. Less than a 5 day turn via USPS! Great customer service! Kudo's to JY.

gaucho777 04-01-13 10:29 AM

Tip of the day: If you carry a tubular patch kit, keep the needle threaded.

I've flatted on my last two rides. I usually bring one spare tubular, plus a tubular patch kit just in case I flat twice. Thankfully, I haven't had to do any roadside tubular repairs in many years, but I realized the other night, while I was repairing one of the punctured tires, I also needed scissors to cut the string and thread the needle. I better just keep that needle in the repair kit threaded.

Tip #2: I had good success using Barge cement to glue down the base tape after the repair.


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 15454371)
Bought the 2 for $50 from YJ several months ago...Great customer service! Kudo's to JY.

For posterity, you must have meant the 3 for $50 deal. Nice to hear about the YJ customer service.

SJX426 04-08-13 08:52 AM

Yes, my bad, 3 for $50. I try to cary a small knife blade somewhere i.l.o. scissors, more applications as a tool.

CV-6 04-08-13 10:18 AM

Challenge Strada Tubulars

Got a set of these from Ribble for $120 shipped. Was wanting some "new shoes" for my Lejeune Pro. They mounted up straight and relatively easy. Took a short ride (15 mi) on them yesterday. Mixed reactions at the moment. They feel fast, but felt sluggish in turns. The latter may be an inflation issue. I was at 110 front and 120 rear..recommended is 115 to 200. I am not a flyweight, so next ride will be with some higher pressures. The ride was smooth and felt good on acceleration. I have seen these listed at 24mm and 25 mm, mine measure right in the middle. The real test will be how long they last and resistance to flats. If you get them, you will be airing up before each ride. They do not hold pressure over time.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8383/8...80738609_b.jpg
Lejeune Pro Mar 13 01 by CV6Enterprises, on Flickr

DiabloScott 04-08-13 10:21 AM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15484529)


Wow, they don't rake 'em like that anymore.

Hey, I found an unused set of black delta cleats in my toolbox... want them?

CV-6 05-19-13 03:51 PM

A follow up on the Challenge Strada tubulars.

It appears there are two different versions out there. I happened to look at the Challenge web site and noticed the specs they have are different from what is on my tires:

95-145PSI spec vs 115-200PSI on tire
300 TPI spec vs 260 TPI on tire
Removable valve core vs not removable

So it appears there are two versions, or else I got some older production tires, which I think is more likely since the Strada I see now are going around $100 a pop.

The good times did not last long, either. Less than 50 miles in and I flatted the rear. No sign of puncture but the tread is unglued where the leak is located. Tried using Vittoria Pit Stop and I guess the damage was too much as it just came spewing out where the tread is displaced. Mounted my spare and went home. So I guess I will send it to Tire alert for a post mortem and possible repair. But needless to say my confidence in them (the tires) is pretty low.

gomango 05-19-13 04:02 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15642879)
A follow up on the Challenge Strada tubulars.

It appears there are two different versions out there. I happened to look at the Challenge web site and noticed the specs they have are different from what is on my tires:

95-145PSI spec vs 115-200PSI on tire
300 TPI spec vs 260 TPI on tire
Removable valve core vs not removable

So it appears there are two versions, or else I got some older production tires, which I think is more likely since the Strada I see now are going around $100 a pop.

The good times did not last long, either. Less than 50 miles in and I flatted the rear. No sign of puncture but the tread is unglued where the leak is located. Tried using Vittoria Pit Stop and I guess the damage was too much as it just came spewing out where the tread is displaced. Mounted my spare and went home. So I guess I will send it to Tire alert for a post mortem and possible repair. But needless to say my confidence in them (the tires) is pretty low.

Defective tire.

Return it.

Six jours 05-19-13 06:38 PM

Bummer. I don't know anyone who will accept returns for glued tires. One of the downsides of tubulars, I guess - sometimes you lose the lottery.

FWIW, I have been happily rolling around on the 25mm "Paris-Roubaix" FMBs the last few months. $225 for the pair hurts at first, but the pain eases...

gomango 05-19-13 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 15643449)
Bummer. I don't know anyone who will accept returns for glued tires. One of the downsides of tubulars, I guess - sometimes you lose the lottery.

FWIW, I have been happily rolling around on the 25mm "Paris-Roubaix" FMBs the last few months. $225 for the pair hurts at first, but the pain eases...

The shop I have been doing business with for the last twenty years will.

That's one of the reasons I continue to do business with them, as I look at them as friends at this point.

Relationships pay dividends.

Edit: FMBs will be my treat after getting our boys through college. Not a legit expense for now.

Chombi 05-19-13 06:51 PM

I just found out that the squeaking sound that continues to happen on my Line Seeker's front wheel when I ride it was being caused by the Veloflex Criterium tub on it not totally adhered to my front wheel's Fiamme Ergal rim at one section. I don't know if it's the Vittoria glue, which I used in lieu of the usual Continental glue (I got the Vittoria glue as I just happen to stumble upon them on a trip to an LBS) that had caused the gluing job to fail at the front wheel, but I do remember using just as much glue as I used on all the other wheels I have installed in the last couple of years adn I remember making sure, as usual that I had good base tape and rim coverage with the glue, I have a feeling it's the different base tape construction that might be causing a need for more glue to get proper adhesion. The Veloflex seems to have a coating over the base tape that all my other tubs do not have. Either the caoting was casing a different texture than usual that might require more glue than usual or maybe I just have to clean it real good maybe iwth some alcohol, so the glue will stick to it better.... I'll find out when I re-glue the two tires sometime this week, If I find time..... This time I'll use Continental glue that I already have and I'm more used to....

rootboy 05-19-13 07:16 PM

A pre threaded needle is a good tip Gaucho. I used to throw a single edge razor blade or even better, an Xacto knife blade in the little Velox tin. Still do.

gomango 05-19-13 07:26 PM


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 15643566)
A pre threaded needle is a good tip Gaucho. I used to throw a single edge razor blade or even better, an Xacto knife blade in the little Velox tin. Still do.

Still carry mine in my tool roll.

Haven't needed it in years, but now that I posted this, I'll need it tomorrow.

Peugeotlover 05-19-13 07:41 PM

You guys who are flatting on tubulars- listen:
I have much more tubular experience then many of you; i m older, maybe, much older.

You need to spend $18. and get a pair of tire savers/ tire wipers. Why?
They will save you the aggravation of flatting your tubulars.
Don't be so bull-headed and think you know it all.

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/0...f-tire-wipers/

gomango 05-19-13 07:55 PM


Originally Posted by Peugeotlover (Post 15643656)
You guys who are flatting on tubulars- listen:
I have much more tubular experience then many of you; i m older, maybe, much older.

You need to spend $18. and get a pair of tire savers/ tire wipers. Why?
They will save you the aggravation of flatting your tubulars.
Don't be so bull-headed and think you know it all.

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/0...f-tire-wipers/

I actually use them on one of my bicycles.

They work great.

If I need another, I'll pm our man Rootboy. :)

Although nothing wrong about picking them up from JH.

Fred Smedley 05-19-13 08:58 PM


Originally Posted by Peugeotlover (Post 15643656)
You guys who are flatting on tubulars- listen:
I have much more tubular experience then many of you; i m older, maybe, much older.

You need to spend $18. and get a pair of tire savers/ tire wipers. Why?
They will save you the aggravation of flatting your tubulars.
Don't be so bull-headed and think you know it all.

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/0...f-tire-wipers/

Tire savers are OK , help some , but shizz still happens.


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