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-   -   Training Status??? (IV) (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1021397)

rubiksoval 12-31-20 07:16 AM

I had a 10 MJ week last week, doing 12.5 hours and 247 miles. It's the first time I've hit 10 MJ in one week since March of 2018, and it was mostly high Z2 work for the duration which left my legs surprisingly sore but able to go back out each day and do it again with little difficulty.

I've continued this block through this week and have 7 hours and 5800 KJ so far, so with a 70 degree (!!) day on Friday and decent weather Sat and Sunday I hope to do 13-14 hours and maybe 11-12 MJs for the whole week before taking a break next week. CTL is at 89 but without racing and super-hard group rides all year I feel pretty solid with that. Strong, but not necessarily primed or on that ragged edge of performance or being toast.

Apparently I'll now be able to get a vaccine in the next wave in Jan or in Feb, so I might search out some races if any are available this spring.

hubcyclist 12-31-20 09:39 AM

did 7x10 intervals building going 88-94% then back down, felt so great, almost too easy. maybe the amp human lotion is helping lol but I did this one a couple of weeks ago and struggled through it (I had done other activity and was probably a bit underfueled, not ideal circumstances) so it's always nice to redeem oneself

TheKillerPenguin 01-01-21 12:15 PM

Already at the end of S6 of Deep Space 9, which means I've got like 2 more weeks before I have to find a new show. Torn between Voyager and less nerdy stuff. Life is hard.

Trainer's not so bad. Stockholm syndrome has set in.

Hermes 01-01-21 12:19 PM


Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin (Post 21857906)
Already at the end of S6 of Deep Space 9, which means I've got like 2 more weeks before I have to find a new show. Torn between Voyager and less nerdy stuff. Life is hard.

Trainer's not so bad. Stockholm syndrome has set in.

We will definitely not try a rescue mission unless we sedate you.:D

TheKillerPenguin 01-01-21 12:20 PM

Have you seen that Black Mirror episode 15 Million Merits? It be like that.

Hermes 01-01-21 05:21 PM


Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin (Post 21857915)
Have you seen that Black Mirror episode 15 Million Merits? It be like that.

Saw it. Yep pretty much.

furiousferret 01-02-21 11:59 AM

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...40e44835d4.png

Elevation was:
2019 - 103,000 meters
2020 - 25,0000 meters

In 2019 I did a lot of group rides outside that were 2-5 hours up mountains, in 2020 I was exclusively alone and indoors, often doing 2 a days (an easy 19 tss lunch ride). 2020 was basically a 12 month base cycle, but everything points that my FTP is near or over my best (I haven't tested at all this year).

My methodology for 2020 probably is not the most efficient training wise, but I kept at it all year and was consistent. Doing traditional plans with days off I burn out, because I tend to do other things on my days off and then at some point it becomes more important than the bike.

I wish I could figure out how to find total kilojoules, but CyclingAnalytics doesn't match Strava anyway. One day when I'm really bored I'll have to audit things so they all sync up.

ridethecliche 01-02-21 11:11 PM

How did you get the exactly same hours for both years! Wild! Strong work all around.

Looking back at this year, I started putting in real time on the bike starting in aug/Sept. That's when my hours on Strava crept up after really starting in May. Ended up with like 22xx miles and like 160 hours.

Hopeful about what this year brings.

TMonk 01-03-21 01:36 AM

TT bike day, 30 min warmup on the trainer and then 2 hr ride with about half on Fiesta Island. I did a 35' and then a 15' at a low SST and felt halfway decent for once. Like wanting to up the pace towards the end and otherwise feeling comfortable. Gonna mess with the tilt block adapters soon.

ridethecliche 01-03-21 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by caloso (Post 21856050)
I wonder if this is where having a dumb trainer is an advantage. Since mine doesn’t react to the game, I just make the watts and it doesn’t feel any different going flat or downhill, my guy just goes faster.

When I do workouts and run both zwift and sufferfest, I have sufferfest control my erg and zwift just sees my power so no issues with the ebb and flow.

Yesterday I did their 'cobbler' workout which is basically a 3x20 workout that I did at 95% to make it somewhere in the high tempo/low SST zone. Total workout was 1:45 and I'm actually kinda surprised I got through it all. I had a feeling I was going to call it quits after the second interval since I haven't done anything that long in years, but it seemed to work out. Might have to try it at 100% next time.

Also lowkey wondering if there's a point where I'll end up jumping to TR just like everyone seems to when they start really getting back into things. Oh well.

hubcyclist 01-03-21 11:32 AM

Done with week 3 of SSB2 HV, awesome week and I’m feeling strong. Yesterday I did 4x20 at 90% and my HR stayed at or below 160 and today was 3x30 at 85% and my HR stayed at or below 150, so feeling good about potentially going up another 5w for the next phase in a few weeks. Ultimately the plan is to a sustained power build phase next and then go back to base and then short power to set myself up for a CX season

furiousferret 01-03-21 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by ridethecliche (Post 21859848)
How did you get the exactly same hours for both years! Wild! Strong work all around.

Looking back at this year, I started putting in real time on the bike starting in aug/Sept. That's when my hours on Strava crept up after really starting in May. Ended up with like 22xx miles and like 160 hours.

Hopeful about what this year brings.

I checked the last week and noticed I needed 6 hours to match it, so I planned tactically :)

TheKillerPenguin 01-03-21 02:04 PM


Originally Posted by furiousferret (Post 21856026)
Pound for pound TR probably is the best structured training without hiring a coach, imo.

I do that and Zwift but the problem with Zwift for training rides is the course is distracting, and its dumb stuff. Like if I have to do 380 watts for 20 minutes, and I hit a downhill section on Zwift, mentally I ease up. Its weird but yeah. Tempus Fugit probably helps since its pancake flat (I haven't done structure on Zwift in over a year).

I actually like that about Zwift, and don't use erg mode for the same reason. How often do you find the 100% perfect interval hill outdoors? Around here the answer is never.

Hermes 01-03-21 05:44 PM

8 hours 49 minutes, 135.5 miles and 267 TSS (bumped FTP). Included Fiesta TT session on TT bike that consisted of 2x10’ Z4 individual intervals and then a 20K TTT.

waterrockets 01-04-21 01:15 PM


Originally Posted by burnthesheep (Post 21842320)
The plan looks solid, I just question the weeks 4/5/6 VO2 workout. It has me doing 420w for 2min, then 380, then 360, then 340. Uhmmmm, yeah. In what world can I do that on 280w worth of ftp while in aero? I'll have to modify that workout down on power a lot! Rest of the workouts look just right for progression.

I think you should consider abandoning the TT position for VO2 workouts if you can't meet the demands. Or maybe set your FTP on a TT bike test position and work zones from there? Your training adaptations (plasma volume, VO2Max, and stroke volume, for instance) developing around VO2 intervals are not going to care what position you were in for the training stress. Need to get HR and power up into that sweet spot that just feels awesome and hard for the first half of the interval when it starts to fall into death cave. If you can't do that in a TT position, just skip it and reap the physiological benefits. You're not really looking to race in a TT position at VO2Max efforts anyway unless you're doing a pursuit on the track, right?


Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin (Post 21860570)
I actually like that about Zwift, and don't use erg mode for the same reason. How often do you find the 100% perfect interval hill outdoors? Around here the answer is never.

I am lucky in Austin. Lost Creek Blvd is like the perfect 5 minutes at 8% for me. It's a little variable, but I don't have any trouble keeping power up on the short flat section before the final steeps. It's my favorite way to do a 5' VO2 interval. I might be able to stomach them on a trainer with my drum fan and a KMFDM playlist. Maybe.

burnthesheep 01-04-21 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by waterrockets (Post 21862071)
I think you should consider abandoning the TT position for VO2 workouts if you can't meet the demands. Or maybe set your FTP on a TT bike test position and work zones from there? Your training adaptations (plasma volume, VO2Max, and stroke volume, for instance) developing around VO2 intervals are not going to care what position you were in for the training stress. Need to get HR and power up into that sweet spot that just feels awesome and hard for the first half of the interval when it starts to fall into death cave. If you can't do that in a TT position, just skip it and reap the physiological benefits. You're not really looking to race in a TT position at VO2Max efforts anyway unless you're doing a pursuit on the track, right?

Good point.

All I have to do is sit up and hammer for that really high stuff.

I tried this last workout that had a mix and it worked out. I hammered the VO2 part sat up, then settled into position for the lower intensity stuff. I also adjusted the targets properly before the workout. Success, really tough workout.......but doable without a bunch of skips or bailing. Workout was designed around a TT with slow corners, so a hammer out of the corner settling into a tough bit of aerobars TT work. You obviously hammer out of the corner or u-turn out of aero...........so that kind of resolved it.

I'm also learning to make sure workouts are "just right" using the Zwift ftp and slider bar. Also, if for some reason a workout doesn't match well with one of my personal strengths and I'm weaker........I can hit that little "minus %" or "plus %" in the Companion App.

furiousferret 01-04-21 04:51 PM

I had 16 days off my office job to do real work around the house (trimming trees, pulling weeds, digging trenches). Ate excessively and was a bit light on the bike because it was almost impossible to count calories doing that kind of work and was initially getting sick because I wasn't eating enough. Now I'm back on my regular schedule where I know exactly how many calories I'm burning so back to grind.


Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin (Post 21860570)
I actually like that about Zwift, and don't use erg mode for the same reason. How often do you find the 100% perfect interval hill outdoors? Around here the answer is never.

There's really nowhere around here that hits a perfect number, so I do 'geo' intervals. Meaning not based on time but segment. We have 3-60 minute hills, but that doesn't help because you have to go back down. Anything flat around here has a stoplight, except for the crit course, and that gets boring.

In a perfect world, anything Sweet Spot and under is indoors, and above is outdoors. I still feel though miles outdoors are needed to get comfort and feel. Less and less every year but I still need it (which hasn't happened).

big john 01-04-21 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by furiousferret (Post 21862405)
I had 16 days off my office job to do real work around the house (trimming trees, pulling weeds, digging trenches). Ate excessively and was a bit light on the bike because it was almost impossible to count calories doing that kind of work and was initially getting sick because I wasn't eating enough. Now I'm back on my regular schedule where I know exactly how many calories I'm burning so back to grind.



There's really nowhere around here that hits a perfect number, so I do 'geo' intervals. Meaning not based on time but segment. We have 3-60 minute hills, but that doesn't help because you have to go back down. Anything flat around here has a stoplight, except for the crit course, and that gets boring.

In a perfect world, anything Sweet Spot and under is indoors, and above is outdoors. I still feel though miles outdoors are needed to get comfort and feel. Less and less every year but I still need it (which hasn't happened).

You could do a little climb up to Onyx Summit.:p

waterrockets 01-05-21 12:19 PM

I took Thing 3 out for a sprint workout today (he started riding in April and has taken it pretty seriously -- he's to the point of needing some specificity for MTB and road racing). Anyway, it's interesting with us -- he's 5'10" at 134 lbs right now, with a max power around 850W. I'm 6'3" 195lbs and maybe 1400W max (need to do some testing "for reals" sometime before a crit actually starts). We did the sprints on a super hilly loop pre-dawn this morning, just picking landmarks "go for three light poles, starting at that mailbox!"

Funny thing is that for three of the sprints, I had no hope of beating him and for the other three he had no hope of beating me. If the hill is steep enough to keep our top speed below 20mph, he kills/murders me. Anything faster than that, and it's like I'm sprinting against a triathlete, and he has no hope. It's been fun. I'm looking forward to seeing how he develops a power profile and race style. It does suck to be sitting here with a reasonable 330W FTP, and he's solidly beating me on W/kg. It totally shows on the hills now. As recently as last month, I could still take him out on 5 minute climbs, but now, if we're climbing in the small ring, he just rides away and there's nothing I can do about it. I need to drop another 10 lbs, but I am definitely a damned crit racer.

caloso 01-05-21 01:05 PM


Originally Posted by waterrockets (Post 21863698)
I took Thing 3 out for a sprint workout today (he started riding in April and has taken it pretty seriously -- he's to the point of needing some specificity for MTB and road racing). Anyway, it's interesting with us -- he's 5'10" at 134 lbs right now, with a max power around 850W. I'm 6'3" 195lbs and maybe 1400W max (need to do some testing "for reals" sometime before a crit actually starts). We did the sprints on a super hilly loop pre-dawn this morning, just picking landmarks "go for three light poles, starting at that mailbox!"

Funny thing is that for three of the sprints, I had no hope of beating him and for the other three he had no hope of beating me. If the hill is steep enough to keep our top speed below 20mph, he kills/murders me. Anything faster than that, and it's like I'm sprinting against a triathlete, and he has no hope. It's been fun. I'm looking forward to seeing how he develops a power profile and race style. It does suck to be sitting here with a reasonable 330W FTP, and he's solidly beating me on W/kg. It totally shows on the hills now. As recently as last month, I could still take him out on 5 minute climbs, but now, if we're climbing in the small ring, he just rides away and there's nothing I can do about it. I need to drop another 10 lbs, but I am definitely a damned crit racer.

This sounds a lot like me and my kid (although your FTP is a bit higher than mine). We did a TT series this summer, and I could usually beat his times on the flats, but on any of the uphill ones, he'd just fly by me. He won the local CX junior series as a 15-yo, and runs the 200 and 400 in track so he knows what it's like to dig deep. The thing is, the kid loves to race, but hates to train.

TheKillerPenguin 01-05-21 03:35 PM


Originally Posted by waterrockets (Post 21862071)
I am lucky in Austin. Lost Creek Blvd is like the perfect 5 minutes at 8% for me. It's a little variable, but I don't have any trouble keeping power up on the short flat section before the final steeps. It's my favorite way to do a 5' VO2 interval. I might be able to stomach them on a trainer with my drum fan and a KMFDM playlist. Maybe.

Def lucky! I have a pretty great vo2 hill a short warmup from here but it is a bit stair steppy. In general I have lots of climbing around, but rarely steady or the perfect length.

hubcyclist 01-06-21 11:20 AM

did a 4x15 ~ 90% session today (the workout is called tallac +2 and each interval has rolling power between 88-94%), which in itself is unremarkable, but my HR/RPE continues to decrease on these efforts, HR barely hit 160 and was really under the whole time, it's a beautiful thing!

TMonk 01-06-21 07:10 PM

Took the morning off so I could get some mid week volume, 4.5 hrs z2. I started feeling some fatigue about 3hrs in, but I got passed it and finished strong. On track for 17 hrs this week.

caloso 01-06-21 07:21 PM

Ramp test. Blergh. Just felt a lot harder than I expected and I don't think there's any way I lost 20 watts in 4 weeks. I think I'm going to keep my current FTP for the time being. If the weather's good on Saturday, I might do an outside "classic" 5' and 20'.

gsteinb 01-07-21 08:45 AM

Came home to a 10 watt bump on my 20 minute power. Getting back into the range of where I used to be.

mark_schiess 01-07-21 09:44 AM

All the power

TMonk 01-07-21 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by gsteinb (Post 21866535)
Came home to a 10 watt bump on my 20 minute power. Getting back into the range of where I used to be.

Did you do any road riding down there or just stick to the rollers?

Over here, I have about 45 min left of my 3 hr Zwift ride before work. Did a 90 min "C" pace ride (~3.0 w/kg) and now I'm headed up AdZ for some more climbing (resistance) till I'm done. 88% of the way to the tron bike!

TMonk 01-07-21 10:09 AM

Also I think I've mentioned this b4, but your pictures reminded me that we have the same TCR. Here it is on the rack... finest bike I've ever owned IMO. My Venge is on the trainer right now and it goes fast and all, but rides poorly in comparison.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...105cf22805.jpg

gsteinb 01-07-21 10:26 AM


Originally Posted by TMonk (Post 21866688)
Did you do any road riding down there or just stick to the rollers?

Over here, I have about 45 min left of my 3 hr Zwift ride before work. Did a 90 min "C" pace ride (~3.0 w/kg) and now I'm headed up AdZ for some more climbing (resistance) till I'm done. 88% of the way to the tron bike!


I won't ride on the road much, but definitely not in a strange place. In the everglades there was one road, dead straight, with a one foot shoulder and cars driving 100mph passing over the broken or solid yellow line. It looked like a pretty sure way to die on a bicycle.

gsteinb 01-07-21 10:27 AM


Originally Posted by TMonk (Post 21866696)
Also I think I've mentioned this b4, but your pictures reminded me that we have the same TCR. Here it is on the rack... finest bike I've ever owned IMO. My Venge is on the trainer right now and it goes fast and all, but rides poorly in comparison.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...105cf22805.jpg


2014 represent. I have two of them. I'm pondering getting an SL frame (I hate ISPs though) to try and lighten up.


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