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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Chombi 03-07-13 06:14 PM

Seems like tape is much harder to deal with if you want to clean them off rims, compared to glue. I had a feeling that was the case. That's why I never considered using tape. Anyway, most of the LBS's I asked around for tape when I was starting out with sewup ties two years ago didn't even know what I was talking about.

Chombi

CV-6 03-07-13 07:40 PM


Originally Posted by Chombi (Post 15357765)
Something really strong, like maybe lacquer thinner?? Tempting to use Gasoline, but that is always a bad idea, safety-wise....just way to volatile....so forget that I even mentioned it!....
Did you try mineral spirits at all? I find it much stronger at getting glue off than even Goo Gone. I'd avoid sand paper if you can as it will take off aluminum material from the rim with the goo, and you don't really want to do that.

Chombi

And lacquer thinner isn't volatile? Yup, sand paper removed some of the gold anodizing, so that is out. Supposed to be nice this weekend, maybe I can try some turpentine.


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 15357998)
I almost hate to recommend it but, I use MEK. Nasty stuff, but cuts through about anything.

I won't play with that stuff.


Originally Posted by RobbieTunes (Post 15358034)
I'm doing that now on a set of HED's that once had tape. The tape is left on the rim in many spots. Nope, Goo Gone doesn't touch it. Mineral spirits are way too slow. I put a $5 wire brush on a drill and had one done in about 10 minutes. I used the paint stripper brush. You'll get covered in dust, and be careful if you're wearing a loose t-shirt. If it gets caught in the drill, you will lose skin until the t-shirt wraps around the bit enough to stop the drill. Do not ask me how I know this.

Now, I have lots of little bits of residue floating around inside my HED's. I have to figure out how to get them out, or live with the noise.

I've removed taped tires from rims before, and actually put them on other rims, using a very light amount of adhesive, right down the middle. I doubt anyone would recommend this, but it worked fine, and probably still does for whomever owns that bike.

The wire brush on the drill yielded the little sticky blobs I mentioned in the original post, so that does not work. Maybe if the residue were old and dried out, it might work. But I just removed the tires/tape in the last month. I guess if the residue is that tough, I may be worried about nothing. Might try the old spoon trick if I can find a spoon the boss will let me sacrifice. More when I have it. BTW, I know how you know about the T-shirt. :) Been there, done that, got the remains of the T-shirt.

Dawes-man 03-07-13 08:30 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15358428)
The wire brush on the drill yielded the little sticky blobs I mentioned in the original post, so that does not work. Maybe if the residue were old and dried out, it might work. But I just removed the tires/tape in the last month. I guess if the residue is that tough, I may be worried about nothing. Might try the old spoon trick if I can find a spoon the boss will let me sacrifice. More when I have it. BTW, I know how you know about the T-shirt. :) Been there, done that, got the remains of the T-shirt.

Have you tried WD40? I had the sticky-blobs-with-wire-brush problem just the other day. Tried parts cleaner and pure alcohol with no effect. With WD40 they wiped straight off.

Six jours 03-07-13 08:45 PM

Jasco paint stripping gel. Truly nasty stuff (gloves and goggles, for sure) but really does work. The last (and only) time I used tub tape the Jasco did the job after WD-40, Goof-Off, kerosene, and gasoline all failed.

CV-6 03-07-13 10:57 PM


Originally Posted by Dawes-man (Post 15358600)
Have you tried WD40? I had the sticky-blobs-with-wire-brush problem just the other day. Tried parts cleaner and pure alcohol with no effect. With WD40 they wiped straight off.

Before and after. While it does help remove the blobs, the wire brush still leaves a lot of residue on the rim. Probably the easiest solution is to go back to tape on this rim. I saw you use Miyata tape. Would you care to share your experience with it? Tape on the rim was Tufo Extreme. Thanks.


Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 15358675)
Jasco paint stripping gel. Truly nasty stuff (gloves and goggles, for sure) but really does work. The last (and only) time I used tub tape the Jasco did the job after WD-40, Goof-Off, kerosene, and gasoline all failed.

Rims are gold anodized. Jasco will likely remove the anodizing. Don't think I will go there.

Chombi 03-07-13 11:20 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15358428)
And lacquer thinner isn't volatile? Yup, sand paper removed some of the gold anodizing, so that is out. Supposed to be nice this weekend, maybe I can try some turpentine.



I won't play with that stuff.



The wire brush on the drill yielded the little sticky blobs I mentioned in the original post, so that does not work. Maybe if the residue were old and dried out, it might work. But I just removed the tires/tape in the last month. I guess if the residue is that tough, I may be worried about nothing. Might try the old spoon trick if I can find a spoon the boss will let me sacrifice. More when I have it. BTW, I know how you know about the T-shirt. :) Been there, done that, got the remains of the T-shirt.

Yes, Laquer thinner is volatile, and so are some kinds of mineral spirits, acetone, alcohol and many other substances, Heck, I betcha Goo Gone is flammable to some degree too as it might have some sort of alcohol base, but I believe they all have different degrees of volatility and explosiveness, Gasoline is designed to catch fire and explode violently within an engine. In terms of it's ranking to catching fire in an explosive way, I suspect that it ranks as high as you can imagine it could so, it would be the first thing I'd strike of my list of using for any other purpose than running my car. All the other substances I mentioned have some degree of expectation to be used in a construction or workshop environment that I believe can make them less risky to use......and that's my point. Whatever you use you always have to be careful and some substances like gasoline is just too volatile that it's not worth the risk....

Chombi

Six jours 03-07-13 11:35 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15359209)
Rims are gold anodized. Jasco will likely remove the anodizing. Don't think I will go there.

Actually, I used it on a pair of red anodized Fiammes without trouble. That's not a guarantee, of course...

gaucho777 03-07-13 11:51 PM

A couple thoughts. Maybe try freezing the rim (soaking in a tub of ice?) to help harden the glue? If all else fails, I've had a lot of success with Brasso in terms of cleaning up tubular glue. It works much, much better than mineral spirits. But there is a catch: They changed the formula for the U.S. version several years ago, and it now contains a very small amount of oxalic acid; so, that may be a no go on aluminum rims, but perhaps worth a small spot trial. I've only ever used glue, never tape.

P.s. FWIW, I have used the new formula Brasso on grey anodized rims without any issues. I think if you just use it to clean up (rather than soak) the rims and wipe it afterward, you won't have any problems.

Dawes-man 03-08-13 01:43 AM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15359209)
I saw you use Miyata tape. Would you care to share your experience with it? Tape on the rim was Tufo Extreme. Thanks.

Sure, as little as it is. I only took to tubulars around a year ago and since then have fitted 8 or 10 tyres using Miyata tape and removed 3. I have no experience of Tufo tape or glue, except I've watched my wife and the LBS owner use the latter.

Miyata tape is a doddle to put on. 4 of the tyres I've fitted have been to NOS rims while the others have been to 1950s Fiamme sprint rims, which I've cleaned up with a wire brush in an electric drill. The last one I needed to use WD40 to remove sticky blobs and smears followed by a wipe with pure alcohol.

To remove tyres fitted with the tape isn't easy and I have to use tyre levers to get the tyre to separate from the rim for around 8" along until I can get my fingers in to pull the rest of the tyre off, which also requires some muscle. I have no concerns about the tape not being strong enough.

The tape sticks mainly to the rim but removing it is simply a matter of going around the rim rolling it off with your thumb. This when you are glad you applied it to a squeaky clean rim.

blamester 03-08-13 05:18 AM

Hi
I had the same problem in reverse the tape was stuck
to the tyre.I used glue over the tape and it is fine, no bad reactio
and stuck good.Bye the way can you still get glue in a tub with
the brush attached to the lid.I found this was very efficent.

rootboy 03-08-13 05:28 AM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15359209)

Don't think I will go there.

Doesn't sound like you'll go anywhere folks are recommending.
Tubular glue is tough stuff. You can either use a strong solvent,
or a lot of elbow grease.

clasher 03-08-13 08:34 AM

Does acetone work? The stuff is non-toxic.

CV-6 03-08-13 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 15359770)
Doesn't sound like you'll go anywhere folks are recommending.
Tubular glue is tough stuff. You can either use a strong solvent,
or a lot of elbow grease.

You are partially correct. I don't want to go there if I don't have to. I was hoping someone had gone ahead and glued over the tape residue. Blamester seems to have done that with a minor difference. Six jours says Jasco did not harm his anodized rims so I may try that first.

I have done this before, but the tape did not leave the residue that this latest batch of Tufo tape left. If the Jasco does not work, I will try gluing over the residue. Will report back. Thanks for the help.

rootboy 03-08-13 10:04 AM

I wonder if heating it up with a heat gun will soften it, Lynn, making it easier to get off. I'll put in with you, I don't like having to work with high test solvents, but I do when I have to. Half face respirator and heavy nitrile gloves of course.

SJX426 03-08-13 01:10 PM

If GooGone is marginally effective, Acetone will work well. It flashes so fast it is challenging to use, but very effective. Use in with open space.

Six jours 03-08-13 08:50 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15360352)
Six jours says Jasco did not harm his anodized rims so I may try that first.

Now you made me nervous. :p

It did work for me. I don't recall being careful to keep it off the sidewalls or anything. I do recall being a teenager who didn't really care one way or the other at the time. So maybe you should try to keep it off the sidewalls...

CV-6 03-08-13 10:09 PM


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 15360697)
I wonder if heating it up with a heat gun will soften it, Lynn, making it easier to get off. I'll put in with you, I don't like having to work with high test solvents, but I do when I have to. Half face respirator and heavy nitrile gloves of course.

It is already soft. I think if it were old and dried, I would not be writing this.


Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 15363487)
Now you made me nervous. :p

It did work for me. I don't recall being careful to keep it off the sidewalls or anything. I do recall being a teenager who didn't really care one way or the other at the time. So maybe you should try to keep it off the sidewalls...

Not to worry. There will be a test in a small area before I dip it in Jasco. ;)

Joope 03-10-13 03:53 AM

Hi!
I found some old tubulars from late 80s, they are soft, and holds the pressure in them. Is there a rule when a tyre is new enough to be ridden?

blamester 03-10-13 06:16 AM

This is a judgemant call.If they look good with no signs of perishing or rot they are
probably ok.Where they stored in a dry dark place with a fairly constant temp?
If you have doubts get new ones.

Chombi 03-10-13 09:17 AM

What you need to be careful with NOS tires is that the damage might be internal. The rubber/latex surfaces might look OK on the exterior of the tires but I've seen NOS tires where the bond between the carcass and the tread and most commonly, the base tape seems to be compromised, maybe because of some sort internal dry rot with the rubber and the glues applied in the factory. Maybe for short, "gentle" rides, 30+ year old tires might hold up OK, but they will never be as good or maybe as safe as new tires, IMO.

Chombi

Joope 03-10-13 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by blamester (Post 15367470)
This is a judgemant call.If they look good with no signs of perishing or rot they are
probably ok.Where they stored in a dry dark place with a fairly constant temp?
If you have doubts get new ones.

They look good, and has been stored in a garage with constant temperature around 18 Celsius.
Ive been thinking that maybe it would be best to buy some new ones at least to the front, but the old tires says that they are size 27, and it seems impossible to find tubulars in that size.

CV-6 03-10-13 10:04 AM

Final report on rim tape removal. Acetone did not cut it. I finally said screw it. and proceeded to apply glue. Checked this AM and it is one of the best glue jobs I have ever done, if I do say so. Part of that is the tires. Took some finessing, but the Challenges mounted nicely to the rims. Now for some decent weather. All that said, I am going back to tape. In the time it took me to do this job, I could have done at least two with tape.

dddd 03-10-13 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by Joope (Post 15367359)
Hi!
I found some old tubulars from late 80s, they are soft, and holds the pressure in them. Is there a rule when a tyre is new enough to be ridden?

I think Chombi covered this, but the biggest problem I've had with using old tubulars is that the glue attaching the base tape to the tire carcass somewhat dries up and can allow the tire to come right off of the rim with base tape left fiercely attached to the rim.

On a related note, having to pull a tire off of a rim with too much force can actually tear the base tape in some cases, so I usually use a "reverse-rolling" tire iron under the tire as I slowly work my way around the rim (pulling the iron toward me, while rotating the iron) when removing tires that have a particularly high level of adhesion with the rim. So much for a quick, on-the-road tire change on a fast-paced training ride.

And I've actually taken ~ten-year-old Continental tubulars out of their orange boxes with the base tape literally falling off, which the vendor didn't disclose btw...

I usually clean rims while mounted in a rigidly-mounted trueing stand. First by spinning the wheel and using a box-cutting blade as a scraper.
I use every edge of these blades, and reverse the wheel to do more scraping in the opposite direction.
The idea being to get strips of the glue to come away from the rim completely with low force applied to the blade and wearing protective gloves.
I believe that the remaining glue settles in very well with the freshly applied stuff, giving uniform adhesion and allowing an accurately mounted tire.

Both tire casing shape and rim cavity shape can really affect the way a tire bonds to a rim, particularly with tape.
Tufo's tape is designed to be used with their seamless tires, which lay down a perfect radius into the rim cavity.
Rims with internal eyelets and tires with bulky seams will need a thicker layer of glue buildup to allow continuous adhesion of the tire mating to the rim, whereas a Tufo tire on an eyelettless rim can achieve fierce adhesion with but a layer of tape.

One more big variable is that some tire's base tape will soak up a couple of glue applications, while some others allow the glue layer to build up immediately with little or no absorbtion. This can mess with the gluer's expectations in terms of the time required and the quantity of glue that may be needed (i.e. LOTS). It sometimes takes 3 tubes of glue to bond a pair of tires, so better to just have a big can of the stuff around from the beginning!

Any gaps between tire and rim can allow dirt between the tire and rim, with resulting creeping bond failure in response to motion and forces.
This has sometimes been a problem in cyclocross, with the ever-present dirt and heavy flexing of the tire casing, if the initial bonding wasn't firm and continuous.

A crooked front valve stem, after mounting is completed, can be corrected by installing the wheel in the correct direction and dragging the front brake to induce rim heating. The onset of creep, in terms of temperature, can be fairly abrupt, so one must keep an eye on things during this operation, but after it's done the bond is likely at it's best the next day. This additional melting helping to settle the tire and rim surfaces together at the glue layer. Many tubular glues are also subject to melting in use when descending longer hills using the brakes, so keep this in mind as to this potential danger. A suddenly-tilted valve stem might be your last and only warning.

RobbieTunes 03-10-13 05:03 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 15367897)
Final report on rim tape removal. Acetone did not cut it. I finally said screw it. and proceeded to apply glue. Checked this AM and it is one of the best glue jobs I have ever done, if I do say so. Part of that is the tires. Took some finessing, but the Challenges mounted nicely to the rims. Now for some decent weather. All that said, I am going back to tape. In the time it took me to do this job, I could have done at least two with tape.

I attacked my last two HED's with the drill-mounted wire brush. It took about 20 minutes a wheel to get the residue to a very thin level, with the rim showing through. Yes, the heat from the brush spread it out a bit, but 90% of it came off. 10min per wheel with mineral spirits and they were as clean as new. 10min per tire, not even pre-stretched, with tape, and they're on the bike and doing fine. I rode it 1/2 mile to seat them, and they've got 130ps in them ride fine.

I actually feel as good about getting all that residue off the wheels as I do about mounting the tires. Now, I'll go after the spares that I removed, so I have enough spares for all the bikes running tubular....

Vonruden 03-16-13 04:53 AM

Track tubs advice
 
Hi,

I'm looking for some advice on selecting some Tubular tires for my Olmo Track bike with Mavic GEL 280's. There is a local asphalt track, which is where I am hoping do some rides, so they would be riden mostly on asphalt. Prefer tan side walls. Any opinions or sites with good deals? I would prefer to stay in the $50-$75 per tire range. Thanks in advance!

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...psed42a165.jpg

http://i1266.photobucket.com/albums/...ps11fa4933.jpg


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