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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

DiabloScott 07-16-21 08:20 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 22142865)
Anyone used Stan's in an FMB or Veloflex? It has been my experience that it ruins the latex tube in the long run. Someone else have experience to share?

I've used Stan's in Vittoria with latex tubes... no prob. Worked at least once... kind of... got me home at least.
Didn't work at least once.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...92f33b2f31.jpg


Next time I put on new tubulars, I'll cut one open to see what it's like. Here's one that didn't use any sealant.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5ad4df7fe1.jpg

CV-6 07-17-21 09:55 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22145053)
I've used Stan's in Vittoria with latex tubes... no prob. Worked at least once... kind of... got me home at least.
Didn't work at least once.
Next time I put on new tubulars, I'll cut one open to see what it's like. Here's one that didn't use any sealant.

My experience was it was all good for a while. Then go to pump up for a ride one day and sealant all over the place. Trip to Tire Alert followed.

gaucho777 07-17-21 04:21 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 22142865)
Anyone used Stan's in an FMB or Veloflex? It has been my experience that it ruins the latex tube in the long run. Someone else have experience to share?

Yes, I've used Stan's with Veloflex (and Dugast, Challenge, Vittoria, Continental, Ritchey, etc.). I've only had a problem with Stan's once on a tubular, and that was on a Vittoria Corsa G+. I got a blowout on the tire after running over some glass (loud pop and sudden loss of air). The tube sort of collapsed on itself and fused together along several sections, including the valve area. This prevented me from being able to apply my sealant or even pump up the tire to try to find the leak. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the sealant that was already in the tube may have caused the issue once the blowout happened. Otherwise, I'm a happy Stan's consumer.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b345fb45_k.jpgUntitled by gaucho777, on Flickr

JohnDThompson 07-17-21 06:40 PM

Pulled out my fixed gear bike to ride today, and lo and behold, the rear tubular tire was flat. No sign of a sealant leak, so I couldn't determine where the puncture is. Nothing fancy; just a YJ "3 for $50" tire, but I've had good luck with those. This one is on its second or third season and still has decent tread. Felt like riding rather than dealing with it, so a swapped the tubular wheels for clincher wheels and went for a ride. When I got back, I squirted some more Stan's inside (not easy, as the valve cores aren't removable), pumped it up, swished it around, and still no obvious sealant leak. I'll keep checking, and if I find it, I'll position the wheel with the leak site down, so the sealant can pool there and plug the hole. Otherwise, if it's still holding pressure tomorrow, I'll put it back in service and hope for the best.

Classtime 07-17-21 06:43 PM

My understanding is that early formula Stans was not kind to latex tubes. But nowadays, there is nothing to worry about.

Lazyass 07-18-21 02:54 AM

I've read that Caffélatex is good for latex tubes, it produces a foam. You can buy it in a little 60ml pouch that fits in a jersey pocket.

jimmuller 07-18-21 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22146134)
My understanding is that early formula Stans was not kind to latex tubes. But nowadays, there is nothing to worry about.

I've been putting Stans in Veloflex tires with latex tubes for several years now and have had no problem. The only would-not-fix problem I've had was a hole it would seal but not be able to hold the high pressure I like to ride. Still, it would hold enough to get me home.

johnnyace 07-23-21 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 22129176)
I'm having an aluminum tubular disc wheelset built for my modern bike and I'm going to buy Panaracer Race C Evo3's for $70/pair.

Panaracer Race C Evo3 Tubular Tire SET: 700c (28") x 26mm - Bulk Discounts (NEW, PAIR) - Bike Recyclery

I went ahead and picked up a pair of these this morning, seems like a stellar deal at $70/pair. Always liked the Panaracer clinchers I've owned, might as well try their tubulars at this price.

Wildwood 07-23-21 05:32 PM

Day before yesterday had a flat out on the road on a tire that looked totally 100% good, and has been reliable. About 7 miles from home, and all I found in the tread were a couple of very small, almost imperceptible cuts in the tread with nothing to extract.

The old bottle of Stan's liquid latex was in the backpack and a very old spare. No glue, no tape.

Long story short = The liquid latex did not work, even with a 2nd larger shot of liquid; but the old tubular held out til home, but went flat soon thereafter.

I will post mortem this flat tire rather than just pitch it, to find what took it out so catastrophically and irreparably.

Luckily my wakeup call to be prepared with better spare and tape to hold it in place. Luckily I had a bunch of CO2 cartridges as I kept trying the Stan's, before going to spare tire.

Remember, after so many miles, those trusty old tires, ain't so trusty.

SJX426 07-28-21 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by Wildwood (Post 22155081)
Luckily my wakeup call to be prepared with better spare and tape to hold it in place. Luckily I had a bunch of CO2 cartridges as I kept trying the Stan's, before going to spare tire.

I don't use Stan's or any equivalent but I did start carrying more cartridges after have 2 flats (with replacement tube) and a loss of air during one 11 mile commute to work. Didn't want to be late. Fixed it at the desk later in the day and used my pump to get it good enough to get to work with 4 stops to pump up far enough and riding on the handlebars to reduce weight on the rear tire. Semi-slow leak.

OH! does this belong in the "I hate flat tires" thread?

Classtime 07-29-21 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22161029)
I don't use Stan's or any equivalent but I did start carrying more cartridges after have 2 flats (with replacement tube) and a loss of air during one 11 mile commute to work. Didn't want to be late. Fixed it at the desk later in the day and used my pump to get it good enough to get to work with 4 stops to pump up far enough and riding on the handlebars to reduce weight on the rear tire. Semi-slow leak.

OH! does this belong in the "I hate flat tires" thread?

Did Tire Alert do your tube replacement?

SJX426 07-29-21 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22162589)
Did Tire Alert do your tube replacement?

My example was about flats using a clincher as a vehicle for discussion.
I have used Tire Alert. Great way to salvage a good case with good tread. They replace the tube and sew it up. Looks great when you get it back. Some people save up their flats and get a discount with bulk service.

squirtdad 07-30-21 05:15 PM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 22146463)
I've read that Caffélatex is good for latex tubes, it produces a foam. You can buy it in a little 60ml pouch that fits in a jersey pocket.

just to note that over time it will dry up in the little pouch..... but I have had good luck with caffelatex in both tubies and clinchers..... but to am pretty sure so far it is only the clinchers (conti 5000 with conti race lite butl tube) that have had little ouchies that sealed.

WGB 08-05-21 08:41 PM

Help me as I am not having fun riding clinchers!!!

I have been riding with tubulars and being a big lad, I kept having to get them trued Any bump and spokes would loosen and back they'd go. Ye local wheel builder said my rims (Nisi) were too light and that I needed a more rigid wheel. To that end I have acquired a 40 hole rear hub and a 36 hole front hub for the next build.

I'm trying to find a strong 40 hole tubular rim. I've even looked for tandem rims but no luck. (I did buy a 40 hole rim only to have a 48 shipped to me and that 48 was a very light weight track rim). I'd like to use tubulars for small scale touring as well
Anybody have any specific rim they'd recommend? And a source for such a rim???

DiabloScott 08-05-21 11:37 PM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 22172868)
Help me as I am
Anybody have any specific rim they'd recommend? And a source for such a rim???

I don't recommend spending $190 for one, but here's a start.

Vintage 60's - 70's Nisi - 40 Hole -"Super Corsa"-Tubular (sew up) Rims - "NOS"
$164.99
$25.00 shipping
Only 1 left!

WGB 08-06-21 06:10 AM

DiabloScott Link??

I agree $150 a piece is high but since there is a very very limited marked seller might be open to offers...

johnnyace 08-06-21 06:47 AM

Purchased a 70s Motobecane Grand Record with Conti Giros on Mavic GP4 wheels/Campy hubs. Thought for sure I would need to replace them, but turns out they are in great shape. Verified by quick 20 mile spin. Where do they fall in the hierarchy of tubulars?

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...853155f96d.jpg

Classtime 08-06-21 08:55 AM

Oh oh!
 
I just went to the Mavic site and it seems that they no
longer make tubular rims. I built wheels with these and they do crazy single track stuff without needing truing. https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/ambrosio...s-tubular-rim/

L134 08-06-21 09:25 AM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 22172868)
Help me as I am not having fun riding clinchers!!!

I have been riding with tubulars and being a big lad, I kept having to get them trued Any bump and spokes would loosen and back they'd go. Ye local wheel builder said my rims (Nisi) were too light and that I needed a more rigid wheel. To that end I have acquired a 40 hole rear hub and a 36 hole front hub for the next build.

I'm trying to find a strong 40 hole tubular rim. I've even looked for tandem rims but no luck. (I did buy a 40 hole rim only to have a 48 shipped to me and that 48 was a very light weight track rim). I'd like to use tubulars for small scale touring as well
Anybody have any specific rim they'd recommend? And a source for such a rim???

Supposedly one can order Velocity Major Tom's with a 40 hole drilling but I've been waiting over 6 months on my special order. First it was their next production run in Feb, then July. Still no word. I don't know if the delay is COVID related or what. Maybe if I had more desperate need and bothered them more I would have them? The only other option I've found is ordering wood rims from Italy.

ThermionicScott 08-06-21 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22173391)
I just went to the Mavic site and it seems that they no
longer make tubular rims. I built wheels with these and they do crazy single track stuff without needing truing. https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/ambrosio...s-tubular-rim/

No more Open Pro T? https://www.mavic.com/en-us/open-pro-t-j24100.html

I see a few European shops still have a few...

CV-6 08-06-21 10:40 AM

S Works Hell of the North tubulars on eBay


If you are wanting to dip your toes into the waters of upper end tubulars, this could be your chance. This is the second time through for these with no bid first time around. I am well stocked else I would not be sharing.

Classtime 08-06-21 02:02 PM


Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 22173489)
No more Open Pro T? https://www.mavic.com/en-us/open-pro-t-j24100.html

I see a few European shops still have a few...

Their product page lists only clincher and tubeless. If i was to get new old stock mavics, i'd look for GP 4.

DiabloScott 08-06-21 03:27 PM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 22173147)
DiabloScott Link??

I agree $150 a piece is high but since there is a very very limited marked seller might be open to offers...

It was eBay, but now gone... last one sold yesterday... coincidence or was it you?
This listing has ended.

I just intended to find a brand that made 40h tubular rims because I've hardly seen any, thinking you could search on Nisi Campione del Mondo 40 hole tubular and see if you could find them anywhere.

You might try some professional wheel builder sites and just ask them if they can get such a rim for you.



Originally Posted by JohnnyAce
Where do they fall in the hierarchy of tubulars?

Giros were the low end of the Continental lineup for quite a while, probably a little better than Vittory Rally. Probably just fine, but more likely to be lumpy than Sprinters.

squirtdad 08-06-21 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 22172868)
Help me as I am not having fun riding clinchers!!!

I have been riding with tubulars and being a big lad, I kept having to get them trued Any bump and spokes would loosen and back they'd go. Ye local wheel builder said my rims (Nisi) were too light and that I needed a more rigid wheel. To that end I have acquired a 40 hole rear hub and a 36 hole front hub for the next build.

I'm trying to find a strong 40 hole tubular rim. I've even looked for tandem rims but no luck. (I did buy a 40 hole rim only to have a 48 shipped to me and that 48 was a very light weight track rim). I'd like to use tubulars for small scale touring as well
Anybody have any specific rim they'd recommend? And a source for such a rim???

I would thing if you could find NOS gp4 and build on 32 you would be good....I had no problems with that setup at 255 or so may be easier to find than 40 also i was once told I couldn't compensate for a light rim with more spokes.... not sure that is true and riding a light rim is a wonder

WGB 08-06-21 08:13 PM

Thanks all!

Have one NOS GPS 4 is sight (well in Toronto anyway), another fellow selling bike stuff on FB told me he gave away 3 40 hole rims as no one wanted them! He might be able to get one back and lastly @bertinjim found one in France that's 48EU + shipping. Good times beckon!

Classtime 08-07-21 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyace (Post 22173182)
Purchased a 70s Motobecane Grand Record with Conti Giros on Mavic GP4 wheels/Campy hubs. Thought for sure I would need to replace them, but turns out they are in great shape. Verified by quick 20 mile spin. Where do they fall in the hierarchy of tubulars?

I've never ridden the Giros but I am a Continental Tubular Fan. I imagine the Giro rides much like the Vittoria Rally which is rather harsh. When the rear Giro needs replacing, consider replacing both with Continental Sprinters (not Gatorskin) and using the front for a spare. Love your Joe Bell Motobecane.

Wildwood 08-11-21 11:51 AM

@johnnyace - Conti's Giro tubular is the low end of their offering. Like you, I bought a wheelset with older Giro tires (23mm) , but in seemingly good shape. Put several hundred miles before the rear tire started to show some sidewall concerns. I replaced it with a Veloflex 25mm. The Giro front tire is still going strong. @Classtime is right about a stiff (harsh?) ride but at 23mm and cheap what should one expect?!? I find Vittoria Rally's cotton casing to be a smoother ride, but it does not have the durability of the Giro, and - at least in the past (in my experience) some of the tires were 'lumpy'. Buy 3 = 2 would be OK, 1 emergency spare. All the tires I buy new are the more expensive ones from several companies. Liking VeloFlex and Vittoria, with Conti a close third. Bought some Challenge Elite ( from a BFer ) and will try those soon.


On a different note - have several bikes with really worn tubulars. Glued up a Conti Sprinter 22mm, Vittoria Corsa 25mm and VeloFlex Arenberg 25mm - but Holy Crap - forgot to pre-stretch any of them. The Arenberg was easiest to mount, the Vittoria Corsa was hard but doable, the Conti Sprinter would not go on. It is now on a rim stretching and will need new glue.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...83cae0ed6.jpeg

Almost done with the last can of mastik - I will soon be a tubular tape guy. :thumb:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d1472dd64.jpeg

Wildwood 08-11-21 01:29 PM

Sorry to have missed this post - my opinion
 

Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 22142865)
Anyone used Stan's in an FMB or Veloflex? It has been my experience that it ruins the latex tube in the long run. Someone else have experience to share?

no experience with FMB tires. But....
I have experience with Stans and OrangeSeal in tubular tires with latex - sized 24-28mm (the 22mm & 30mm are butyl tubes) from VeloFlex, Vittoria, Specialized. Approximately 1 ounce of Stans in new tires kept me flat free for 4 years, road with some mixed surfaces of trail.. Maybe that was Lady Luck, low mileage across several bikes, or Stans -- certainly the Stans seems not to have degraded the latex tubes ability to hold air, over 4 years..

As the Stans got used, I bought a large bottle of Orange Seal. I squirted it into the higher mileage tires annually. After all, I had been flat free, must work. :) :foo: Problem was that monitoring the amount dispensed from a 20oz bottle proved difficult.. [Stans had been in the 2oz bottles]. The valves got a bit messy and after a couple of very recent flats on worn (but not worn out) tires I cut open a VeloFlex and found a mess inside the tube. No way to diagnose the cause of the flat. Outer tread showed no obvious cuts or lodged debris. I guess there is a chance the combination of Stans initially and OrangeSeal subsequently degraded the latex tube, but more likely something from the gravel trail i had been riding.


My new philosophy after 4 years experience with sealants in quality tubulars is this:
1. Do not use sealant in new tires.
2. Carry a small and measure-able quantity for roadside repairs - such as 2oz bottle.
3. Use sealant sparingly
4. If the sealant does not work roadside, be sure to have a spare tire. :thumb:
5. Carry tape to avoid problems with pre-glued spares.

edit: and don't let your stored sealant in the bottle(s) get more than 2-3 yrs old even when stored in a basement.

JohnDThompson 08-11-21 06:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)
like @Wildwood, I have been using Stan's in tubulars for several years without problems. Not fancy tires, thoug; just YJ "Servizio Corse," Hutchinson "Tempos" and such like. But it can be tricky getting Stan's into a tire that lacks a removable valve core. At home, I use a syringe and plastic tubing pressed over the valve stem, and a needle-nose pliers to lift the knurled nut to open the valve while I inject the sealant. That's too much stuff and bother to carry on the road, so I bring a spare in case I flat.

That said, has anyone tried this Velox stuff? It's in a pressurized can, with a chuck to fit onto the valve stem. I picked up a can, just to see, but haven't had an opportunity to use it yet (nor am I in any particular hurry to do so :innocent:):

Wildwood 08-12-21 01:15 AM

Clarification of my above.
I have only used liquid latex type sealants listed as appropriate for tubulars and inserted into valves with removable cores (removed, then reinserted).


And I have zero experience with newer tubeless rims/tires and sealant. And no intention to go that way, at least on the road bikes.


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