Carbon frame has a bump/bulge in the middle. Should I worry?
 

Hello folks,

I just got a new to me Argon 18 Nitrogen Pro with only 500 miles if I can trust the seller. The bike looks sweet with no real wear. I noticed that the frame has a bulge/bump/imperfection right in the middle. Please see the pics. I do not see any cracks or chips around this area but the bump is really noticeable even on crappy pictures I made. This is my first fully carbon bike, so I'm not really versed in what to expect from carbon frames. Is it something I should be worried about? I wouldn't like it to break on a 45mph descent.

Thanks for your input.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b837bf7d17.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...01f45c9442.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aa26280b5f.jpg

google Argon 18 Nitrogen Pro and compare the pictures.....

I did this for 30sec, you should spend more time, but I did not see any with a bulge like that for me it would be a hard pass

https://www.racycles.com/page/detail...waArgQEALw_wcB

That frame has been repaired. Depending on who repaired it it should be very strong. If the seller didn't inform you about the damage/repair I wouldn't buy it.

Yes. I googled like crazy before posting it here. I even shot a message to Argon. Haven't seen anything like that on any pic.

Have you already bought the bike? Any chance to return?

I purchased it off Facebook Marketplace from a local guy. He sounded very legit. I know where he lives and stuff. The bike looked very good and clean. I guess I should ve paid a better attention when checking it out. I was in a bit of rush.
I took the bike for a few rides and it rides great. But once I noticed this bump it doesn't look good to me anymore. He told me he only put like 300 miles on it on a trainer and the bike is like new. I should ve known also that trainer and carbon do not really blend together. Stupid me.

Just talked to a seller again. He said he purchased this bike from a local bike shop and babied it the entire time he owned it. He is saying It was his first carbon bike and he did not know what to expect.
After quickly googling the issue here is how original frame looks like. It has "Nitrogen" printed and is of mate color. So something has been done to that frame for sure.

So either seller is lying or LBS sold him a bike with a repaired frame which is kind of strange. I don't know who I should trust now. I might stop by that LBS and ask them for details. Hope they are keeping track of all the bikes they sell.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...82f496ee82.jpg

Top Tube
 

Looking at your pic's.
It would appear that your top tube has been refinished, different shine.
The other pic looks like the top tube has the same silk sheen.

Barry

OK. More details. That seller finally started talking. Here is what he said:

"Ok i bought it new like i said, the frame had a scratch and the customer that ordered it did not want it anymore they told me they sent it back to reinforce it with carbon fiber, i didn’t even know where it was since i didn’t see it before and honestly i did not care, all i saw was the opportunity of having a top of the line bike at a great price, like i said there is nothing wrong with the bike, the frame never broke, it was never in an accident".

I don't know if I can trust him. Why would you want to cover a scratch with layers of fiber glass? Was it really a scratch or most likely a crack? I can probably return the bike or ask for partial refund. I do like this bike a lot. And good bikes are sold out everywhere.

Functionally the frame should be and almost certainly is fine. Cosmetically this is like your new to you
2019 car that just had a beer can size dent put in the door. My attitude would depend a great deal
on how much I paid for the frame. Any thing above 40% of retail of the frame sold as used, not new
and I might want my money back, but not sure what recourse you would have though Facebook does
appear to have some built in.

I paid $2.1k for this bike. It has 6800 Ultegra. Not a bad deal for a used perfect condition bike. Not a great deal I think knowing it had a cracked frame.

6800 is what 3 yrs out of date? I agree with you at that price... CF repairs up very well, and the repair, especially
on the top tube, would not be a detriment to the longevity or performance but it certainly puts a big dent in your
attitude toward the bike.

Seller willing, I’d return it in a heartbeat.

Else I have to disassemble the frame completely and send to a reputable carbon shop.
A good shop would have likely repaired the tube internally and not wrapped the outside.
The cost is frightening, the repair isn’t.

Barry

6800 is more like 5 to 6 years out of date, 8000 is now discontinued, 8100 is current (as of the last month or 2)

I'd return that frame, a bulge like that would bug me every time I looked at it. Plus the seller should have disclosed the information to you beforehand.

Also what kind of "scratch" would need reinforced carbon and a new paint layer? Most my scratches I just cover up with a Sharpie!

Just tell all your riding buddies that the bike is pregnant, and you'll be getting a baby bike soon!!!

That is more than I'd want to pay for a repaired bike, but I couldn't say what it is actually worth.

Thanks folks. Here is some more chit chatting with this person if you are curios. He sells houses. So, I guess lying is his second nature.

Him: I did not change anything and the dealer clearly stated that is new when i bought it. They wont sell something that would give you problems because they would be liable. If you dont feel comfortable sell it but the selling dealer or i have nothing to do with it. I let you ride it. I let you look at it I answered all your questions. And i gave you a really good deal on it. You could sell it for more if you wanted. What more do you want? Have a great day man

Me: Such details must be disclosed. I doubt I would ve purchased this bike knowing it was repaired. Saying you "let me ride and look at it" is literally saying nothing. You are perfectly aware of Lemon law and stuff. I clearly asked you if the bike had any issues. You said NO. You did not disclose a very important fact. I will never be able to sell it for even half the price I paid.

Him: That frame alone is over 5k and you know it, just sell it Have a great day What more do you want!?

That frame was $3k at max at it's launch. He reminds of a used cars sales person. He even advises me to resell it. I will never ever sell anything like that without disclosing such an important fact. What an a$$.

Yeah, there's still more that he's not telling you. I hope you can get him to give you your money back for it, but, at this point, I wouldn't be too hopeful.

Facebook marketplace claims to have some recourse but with significant limits:
https://www.facebook.com/help/228307904608701

I thought new bikes were sold with 6800 upto about 3 yrs ago when the
8000 change over began but looking back and researching suggests 5 yrs
is a better time frame for the 6800->8000 transition.

Small claims court is maybe your only option. Sounds like seller didn't disclose the entire history of the bike that he was aware of when he sold it to you. Save all your communications and a copy of the ad you saw the bike advertised in. Hard to say if you would have any luck in small claims but if you're stuck with the bike it may not be so bad to ride and you can have it checked out by another shop to be sure it's safe. You could also get some estimates from some legitimate carbon repair shops which even if it turns your bike into a not so great deal after paying for a professional repair at least it would be as good as new. Also consider it a hard lesson learned and make sure you don't make the same mistake again.

I paid cash during meetup. I doubt FB rules will apply to sales like that.

I already saved all the communication and Facebook's original ad. I will sue his a$$ if I want to. He is a real estate broker and having a law case against him is going to hurt him much more than just arguing with me over refund. Plus he's got nothing to lose. In the worst case he scenario he gets his "perfect" bike back which he can sell it to another naïve cyclist. Originally I was looking for a good new bike and was willing to pay good price. But this darn COVID thing made all the shops empty so used market was my best bet. I purchased both of my current bikes used. One of them from ebay and had zero regrets. They still run strong. This time it turned out the opposite. I don't think anything will happen to that bike and it is not a $10k fancy machine, but that feeling and that ugly bump is what bothers me a lot. ))

This is the key question. The fix for a real "scratch" ranges from buffing and touch up paint to light sanding, epoxy, repaint, and clear coat. Even if not perfectly performed, at most you would have a blemish in the paint and/or the clear coat. Here, the fact that so much material was added all around the top tube to noticeably enlarge its diameter calls into question the severity of the damage and/or the competence of the repair.

I will say that if there is something pretty obvious that I missed on purchasing something, I'll kick myself and take my lumps.

But, I agree, this seller was a real clod to indicate the frame was like new with such a huge repair. And, I hope that if I ever start selling stuff, I'll stand behind my anything I sell.

As others have mentioned, it is quite likely this frame will be just fine. It appears as if the repair was feathered quite well, and I'm assuming it used copious amounts of carbon fiber wrap.

Now, the question is what the original damage was.

Drop something on the frame? Could give a single impact damage without significantly affecting the rest of the frame.

Front-end damage? Running into a parked car? The problem with that kind of damage is that inevitably multiple tubes are damaged, even if it only appears as if one was damaged.

Undoubtedly he has also treated his real estate clients in the same manner.

Give it a month or two for some of the dust to settle, then you could post a "professional review" of his services. Make it general enough that it is truthful, but ambiguous.