Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

browngw 03-09-18 01:32 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20213566)
One of those pads is facing the wrong way, gotta watch that. They will wear down and conform to the rim quickly, but you want to make sure they land correctly on the rim. The old pads look like they were landing too far out, away from the center. Since the brake stirrups work as return springs, the pads move in toward the center of the rim as they move toward the rim. So you want them to land exactly on the correct place on the rim (in or out) You can adjust this by loosening the bolt holding the guide arm and tapping the guide one way or the other. Up and down on the fork legs on the front or forward and back on the chainstays for the back. The only reason I would dress off any pad material is if one of them is contacting the rim sooner than the other. I do that by holding a strip of emery cloth against the rim, applying light pressure on the lever and pulling the emery cloth through. And +1 about the brake lever travel @Salubrious mentions. I like around 3" of travel from the end of the lever to the grip.

Not sure what you mean about one pad facing the wrong way. The pads are symmetrical. If you mean one holder is different, yes it is. The ones on this bike were closed at both ends. When opening, one broke off. As I thought that might happen I opened the one not against the rotation. The holders on the '77 are open on the reversing end.
I had already bent the levers (see photo of SWAT above). I think that will help a lot.
Thanks @ Salubrious and @BigChief for the advice!

BigChief 03-09-18 07:43 PM

Oh, I see what happened now. You have the Fibrax style pads with tabs at each end of the holder and had to bend away a tab to install the Kool Stops. I didn't notice that. I was thinking they were the original Raleigh holders that are are just open at one end and narrowed down at the other. Seems that it would be much more difficult to install the Kool Stop inserts in the Fibrax holders that are closed at both ends.

nlerner 03-10-18 10:39 AM

The recent talk of grip options inspired me to photo document the current state of grips on my bikes and in my bin. Certainly these are not all "sanctioned" grips for English 3-speeds, but they do demonstrate the wide variety of options:

A close up of a Brittania grip, this one on my '49 Raleigh Clubman:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4790/...b7b01467_c.jpg

Dare grips; I'm not quite sure of the history of these or when they might be found on Raleigh Sports:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4801/...0ea2ae50_c.jpg

Some kind of hard rubber grip I have on my Rudge Sports, marked "Made in England" on the end:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4780/...36e20ebb_c.jpg

Some white ribbed "made in England" grips. Seems these came on lower-end 3-speed in the 1960s:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4792/...6be8e855_c.jpg

Not vintage or British, but the most comfortable grips I have: German, cork/rubber blend, purchased by my wife on a trip to Germany several years back:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4790/...fd00fe62_c.jpg

These are also marked "Made in England" on the ends; I thought they might be GB but no mfg's mark:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4784/...e19db6f9_c.jpg

These Raleigh grips came off of a 1950s 3-speed; the material is quite worn away and it's hard to know what the original color might have actually been:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4797/...4f67ff90_c.jpg

These grips look and feel like they belong on a golfing putter. They're quite comfortable and currently on my 1950 Raleigh Lenton Tourist:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4773/...743bcdb4_c.jpg

Some random grips I had in the parts bin: no markings at all, but they kind of look the part:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4801/...09a333e8_c.jpg

Finally, a page from a 1950/51 Raleigh parts catalog, showing some grip options at the time:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4782/...261de31a_b.jpg

BigChief 03-10-18 02:04 PM

@nlerner I really do like the Brittania grips. Very elegant. I'm going to keep an eye out for them. How about posting some pictures of your bikes. Even if they did appear on this thread miles back, I'd enjoy seeing them.

nlerner 03-10-18 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20215223)
@nlerner How about posting some pictures of your bikes. Even if they did appear on this thread miles back, I'd enjoy seeing them.

Certainly! Here are the IGH Brit bikes in the current fleet in chronological order:

1949 Raleigh Clubman
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7510/...26191d5b_c.jpg

1950 Raleigh Lenton Tourist
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5476/...a92992dc_c.jpg

1953 Rudge Sports
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4454/...6d0381e5_c.jpg

1973 Raleigh SuperCourse with a 5-speed IGH
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4166/...077e58f8_c.jpg

And while not a 3-speed, but instead a derailleur-equipped bike, I've set up this '73 Raleigh Competition in city bike mode:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4558/...df3e0398_c.jpg

BigChief 03-10-18 06:16 PM

Ahhh eye candy. What a fine looking stable. Clubmans have always been at the top of my wish to find list. I remember following up newspaper ads in the 70s hoping that the 3 speed Rudge in the ad would turn out to be a Pathfinder when I got there...never was. Not yet anyway. So many years have passed that any 50s 3 speeds have become almost extinct. I love the Rudge! I did find an early 50s tall frame Rudge, a lot like yours recently. After about 4 years of searching. Makes me wonder what happened to them. They didn't used to be so rare. Is that a genuine Clubman crank on your Super Course? Looks great. I always wondered what single ring cottered crank I could use if I ever got around to making my own club style bike.

nlerner 03-10-18 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20215523)
Ahhh eye candy. What a fine looking stable. Clubmans have always been at the top of my wish to find list. I remember following up newspaper ads in the 70s hoping that the 3 speed Rudge in the ad would turn out to be a Pathfinder when I got there...never was. Not yet anyway. So many years have passed that any 50s 3 speeds have become almost extinct. I love the Rudge! I did find an early 50s tall frame Rudge, a lot like yours recently. After about 4 years of searching. Makes me wonder what happened to them. They didn't used to be so rare. Is that a genuine Clubman crank on your Super Course? Looks great. I always wondered what single ring cottered crank I could use if I ever got around to making my own club style bike.

At one point, I had three Raleigh Clubman: this '49, a '50, and a '51. The '50 and '51 are essentially the same bike, and eventually I sold them off, holding on to the '49 because I bought it from the son of the original owner, who bought it in Milwaukee, so the provenance is kinda cool.

Funny story on that Rudge: I bought it late last summer from a Craiglist seller a couple of towns over. Ends up that seller bought it from a friend of mine who cleared a bunch of bikes out on a garage sale. I could have saved $5 by buying it from my friend!

And, yes, that's a Clubman chainset on the Super Course, but I've since swapped that out for a Stronglight 93 w/ a single 45t ring. I was having trouble with the fit of the cotters, the spindle, and the chainset, so the swap just made life easier, and I do like that configuration for a single speed or IGH build.

johnnyspaghetti 03-11-18 02:08 AM

This guy has several in airplane hanger Lake Elmo Mn. Then we go.
.

browngw 03-11-18 10:51 AM

Downsizing the 3 Speed Fleet
 
5 Attachment(s)
Anyone else considering thinning out their fleet of three-speeds? I now have four and realize that they will not all get a lot of use and even overlap in function a bit.
The 1971 Robin Hood Sports will likely always have a home at "One Browns Lane". That leaves little space for the recently completed "scorcher" '72 Supercycle "Golden Glow Express".
Likewise, the 1979 Raleigh DL1 aka. "Sir Wayes A. Tonne" has secured a permanent place as my about town/coffee shop/shopping bike. The look and feel of this somewhat heavyweight is incomparable. Unfortunately the newcomer '77 DL1 needs to find a new home.
I really enjoy the process of rebuilding these old bikes and making them relevant once again but there is only so much space to keep them and time to use them.
One of the spaces was stolen recently by an older (1965) French Dilecta Le Blanc touring bike that had to be rescued from neglect, missing or not appropriate parts and "fix-ation"( fixed gear). I have a feeling it may be a keeper!

nlerner 03-11-18 03:10 PM

^ Nice fleet, @browngw. I seem to have a steady flow of 3-speeds come and go through my fleet. Mostly it's because I like working on them, so if I see a screaming deal on CL (usually $60 or less for a 23" men's frame) I'll buy it, rehab, and resell or give it away. A couple of years back I rehabbed a Raleigh Superbe and ended up having to buy a couple of lady's Raleighs (which go for cheap around here) in order to get the right fender set and chainguard. All eventually got resold, including the Superbe, as ultimately it didn't ride as nicely as my Lenton Tourist, which is a 531 frame with 700 x 32mm wheels, gen hub and front lamp, and is, in my view, the ideal upright bar 3-speed.

thumpism 03-11-18 05:08 PM

Yeah, I'll probably never do much with my 22" Tourist or the 19" ladies' Sports. I'll keep my 23" Sportses (the men's and the ladies') and the Swiss Condor with the 700C alloy wheels.

BigChief 03-11-18 09:27 PM

I've been slacking on the herd thinning lately. Selling finished bikes is a pest and I've been putting it off too long. It's on my list of things to do :0

BigChief 03-12-18 02:03 PM

Wow, if this is right, it would be the Grandaddy of all English IGH club bikes. I don't have the knowledge to comment much about it except I would be surprised if the finish of any bike could survive in that condition for 80 years. But, who knows? It certainly is well done in any case.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-war-Ral...4AAOSwNWxZ-gnt

nlerner 03-12-18 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20218788)
Wow, if this is right, it would be the Grandaddy of all English IGH club bikes. I don't have the knowledge to comment much about it except I would be surprised if the finish of any bike could survive in that condition for 80 years. But, who knows? It certainly is well done in any case.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-war-Ral...4AAOSwNWxZ-gnt

Iím fairly sure that seller has offered that bike previously at similar ambitious pricing and general lack of knowledge (e.g., the FM is a 4-speed hub!). I agree itís likely 1930s but wonder how much is original. Odd that there are no RRA decals. Could be a Golden Arrow, I suppose, but itís been repainted, Iíd guess.

BigChief 03-12-18 04:01 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20219004)
Iím fairly sure that seller has offered that bike previously at similar ambitious pricing and general lack of knowledge (e.g., the FM is a 4-speed hub!). I agree itís likely 1930s but wonder how much is original. Odd that there are no RRA decals. Could be a Golden Arrow, I suppose, but itís been repainted, Iíd guess.

There does seem to be a lack of knowledge. He mentions leather cable housings. I'm not sure what to call these woven fabric type coverings, but you see it all the time used as wire insulation in old electronics, but it certainly isn't leather. If you look closely, you can see the RRA logo on the seat tube. I'm going to guess the whole bike is a restoration, but it's still fun to see. Just my opinion, but I don't care for the lights.

clubman 03-12-18 05:08 PM

The big Miller light looks correct but radially laced wheels in the 30's? Never seen that. It's a nice $700 resto ;)

nlerner 03-12-18 05:18 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20219174)
The big Miller light looks correct but radially laced wheels in the 30's? Never seen that. It's a nice $700 resto ;)

Interestingly enough, the 1938 Raleigh catalog does show the RRA as having a radially laced front wheel:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4775/...f9faba23_b.jpg1938RRA by neal_lerner, on Flickr

capnjonny 03-12-18 05:18 PM

3 Attachment(s)
here are a few snaps of the latest bike I have taken home to give some love.
It is a Univega Tri Star, probably made in taiwan, with a Shimano 3 speed, Dia comp brakes, and steel 1 1/4 x 27"rims. There was another Tri Star sitting next to it in grey blue.

I stripped it down and touched up the paint , then clear coated the fenders and chain guard.

I have cleaned the steel wheels and will use the rear but most likely will replace the front with an aluminum rim. I also swapped in a Schwinn handle bar . it is the same basic shape but slightly wider and has perfect chrome. I can't decide whether or not to polish the rack and re install it. the brakes have already been polished and really make the bike look nice. A new set of gum walls and this girl will be ready for the prom,

I know this bike isn't anything special but it looked so nice sitting there in the pile I had to give a make over.

clubman 03-12-18 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20219195)
Interestingly enough, the 1938 Raleigh catalog does show the RRA as having a radially laced front wheel:

1938RRA by neal_lerner, on Flickr

Dag nab it!

BigChief 03-12-18 06:01 PM

I know, it's hard to keep track of details for pre-war Raleighs. You hardly ever see one. I certainly have never put a spanner to one. Out of curiosity, I'd like to learn the approximate date Raleigh redesigned their brake calipers. The older ones I see, like this one, have calipers with quite a bit of trailing offset on the pads. They shortened the offset, Im sure by 1951, but I could add to my detail timeline if I had a more precise date.

BigChief 03-13-18 05:33 AM

This well written article explains a lot about RRAs and even answers my brake caliper question. Well, one source anyway. Seems like a good one. It claims that the RRA received the "new pattern brakes" in 1939. The 1939 RRA in the picture does have the later style calipers that we're all familiar with

Pre War Raleigh Record Ace RRA - Three Speed Hub

Salubrious 03-13-18 10:49 AM

Radial laced wheels
 
Radial laced wheels have been around since the advent of two wheels. They persisted well into the 1930s on many production machines. They are still seen today; but early on the industry sorted out that they are not as strong so they are not used for rear wheels as the driving torque on the spokes can break spokes and rear hubs. IOW interlaced spoke patterns make for stronger wheels. But a radial pattern is always a nice thing to see on a front wheel so I encourage anyone building a front wheel to give it a shot.

clubman 03-13-18 04:11 PM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 20219196)
here are a few snaps of the latest bike I have taken home to give some love.
It is a Univega Tri Star, probably made in taiwan, with a Shimano 3 speed, Dia comp brakes, and steel 1 1/4 x 27"rims. There was another Tri Star sitting next to it in grey blue.

I stripped it down and touched up the paint , then clear coated the fenders and chain guard.

I have cleaned the steel wheels and will use the rear but most likely will replace the front with an aluminum rim. I also swapped in a Schwinn handle bar . it is the same basic shape but slightly wider and has perfect chrome. I can't decide whether or not to polish the rack and re install it. the brakes have already been polished and really make the bike look nice. A new set of gum walls and this girl will be ready for the prom,

I know this bike isn't anything special but it looked so nice sitting there in the pile I had to give a make over.

Hey Capn...Univegas are nice bikes and yours is no exception. Unique in my part of the world.

BigChief 03-13-18 05:07 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20220617)
Radial laced wheels have been around since the advent of two wheels. They persisted well into the 1930s on many production machines. They are still seen today; but early on the industry sorted out that they are not as strong so they are not used for rear wheels as the driving torque on the spokes can break spokes and rear hubs. IOW interlaced spoke patterns make for stronger wheels. But a radial pattern is always a nice thing to see on a front wheel so I encourage anyone building a front wheel to give it a shot.

What is the advantage of radial laced front wheels? A friend of mine rides a more recent Cannondale set up this way and I was wondering about it. I didn't know until now that it dated so far back on sporting bikes.

clubman 03-13-18 06:14 PM

Lots of opinions on radial spoke wheels. Lighter, maybe stronger, more aero yet harder on some hub flanges, more dangerous when spokes break, maybe harsher ride etc etc. It's like geting into an oil thread with car engines.

SirMike1983 03-13-18 06:58 PM

The coating on those cloth housing appears to be a type of fabrikoid. This was a method perfected in the very early 20th century where cloth or layers of cloth would be coated with a water-resistant lacquer, usually nitrocellulose type, to create a slick, water-resistant cloth. You often see it on old luggage and on some of the old-style horse hair mattress bike saddles. It seems a slightly different coating was used on the housings than on the saddles, but appears to have been the same process of coating cloth with a lacquer type coating.

BigChief 03-13-18 07:47 PM

I can confirm that Raleigh used these cloth covered cable housings as late as 1951 (by hub date) . I found an interesting article about how to reproduce these cable housings using modern cable and tubular shoelaces. scroll down to near the bottom

Cable Parts ę Myrons Mopeds

Super.bee 03-14-18 09:47 AM

no-in-between retrofit?
 
Has anyone in this venerable group tried retrofitting an old aw with new parts to eliminate the no-in-between gear issue? I don't mean filing the clutch teeth, but rather using a new-design clutch, which I presume means a new-design driver as well. Are these the only parts that need to be replaced? Or, has anyone sourced aw or srf3 rebuild kits and gone that route? I'm thinking of building up an English 3 speed for my daughter, and would rather use the new tech, but have lots of old aw's and prefer their appearance. Plus a guts swap means I could even use a wheelset I already have built with an old aw + cr-18s. Anyone?

BigChief 03-14-18 11:02 AM

I have noticed that some later AW hubs have quality issues like burrs, sharp edges, under tensioned clutch spring and misalignment of parts that can cause dodgy shifting. Sometimes a bent or twisted indicator chain will cause problems, but for the most part, a smooth running AW will shift flawlessly once the cable is in proper adjustment. The trigger shifters are indexed perfectly to avoid the neutral spot between 2nd and 3rd. I'm surprised that you would feel the need to modify one unless you're dealing with one of the rare lemons. Have you tried swapping the guts from one of your other AWs?

Salubrious 03-14-18 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20221350)
What is the advantage of radial laced front wheels? A friend of mine rides a more recent Cannondale set up this way and I was wondering about it. I didn't know until now that it dated so far back on sporting bikes.

The most important advantage is they look nice :)


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:30 PM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.