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-   -   Training Status??? (IV) (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1021397)

procrit 10-20-22 11:53 AM

Quick 60 min spin in the country over lunch. Now back to work!

TMonk 10-20-22 02:33 PM

90 min spin this AM, just gradually easing back in to volume. Gonna go for 12-14 hrs next week, rest the following, FTP test in mid November, then start rackin' it up!

I generally feel fairly fatigued from July onward, especially after being "on it" from November till then, with no real rest outside of the easy week every fourth week. Might try to plan a dual peak season with a few weeks of easy riding/de-loading in between, we'll see. We have some coaching resources for us in this years budget (that I helped organize), so I might try to get some 1-on-1 planning time. Main goals are Feb, (early) April, then mid/late summer.

procrit 10-20-22 06:21 PM


Originally Posted by TMonk (Post 22686007)
90 min spin this AM, just gradually easing back in to volume. Gonna go for 12-14 hrs next week, rest the following, FTP test in mid November, then start rackin' it up!


I generally feel fairly fatigued from July onward, especially after being "on it" from November till then, with no real rest outside of the easy week every fourth week. Might try to plan a dual peak season with a few weeks of easy riding/de-loading in between, we'll see. We have some coaching resources for us in this years budget (that I helped organize), so I might try to get some 1-on-1 planning time. Main goals are Feb, (early) April, then mid/late summer.


How many hours a week will you eventually ramp up to? I'm so out of shape at the moment 8 hours is a solid week of training for me...

TMonk 10-20-22 06:24 PM


Originally Posted by procrit (Post 22686187)
How many hours a week will you eventually ramp up to? I'm so out of shape at the moment 8 hours is a solid week of training for me...

I would say I average 12 or so from November through July. At least the past few years. There are always a couple weeks in Dec/Jan that push up on 20 hours, but not often. 18 is pretty common to see a couple times, and during those winter months my average is closer to 14 or 15. CTL usually tops out around 100 and I hang out in the 90 range for most of the season.

procrit 10-21-22 08:11 AM

I went for a walk with morning which turned into adding in 250 walking lunges, and then finished it off with an actual JOG for one mile. Doesn't seem like much, but considering I was wearing a brace and could barely walk this spring when I injured my knee, I'm extremely happy. First run since April? It's been a long time coming.

Hermes 10-21-22 08:29 AM

We are in the preparation phase of training or as a former coach called it strength and adaption. The first coach I used had me in the gym doing a pedal stroke specific circuit consisting of leg presses with isometric holds, leg extensions, knee curls and high chairs 10 sets of 10 at his cycling gym. Next I got on my bike and did lower cadence intervals for 30 minutes. This was twice per week. Subsequent years, he had me doing box jumping.

Today, my coach is all about not much riding, low gears and strength work - for road and track endurance riders. Yesterday was a track workout at SDV. Warmup, accelerations, 4 X 100 meter jumps and then 18, 1/4 lap starts with a 19th 1/2 start. Execution was 1/4 lap start, kill speed, roll around the track to the start line and do another - not much rest. 3 sets 6 reps per set rest between sets - strength training on the bicycle.

I was not so sure about this workout since it seemed like a lot of starts. It went okay and I feel great this AM. My legs were a little cooked a couple of hours after the finish.

procrit 10-23-22 06:09 PM

Might be getting the cold that's been going around the neighborhood. Hopefully not, I have things to do...

TMonk 10-25-22 04:14 PM

3 hr z2 "dawn patrol" ride this morning, starting at 5:45 with lights. I always do this one or twice before the clock falls back, just to catch the sunrise on the road. Cold in the canyons. I did at least run into some local race-y cyclists that kept me company for a bit from 6:30 to 7 or so.

This week I'm aiming for 15 hrs. October is spent slowly riding more w/o structure, then I usually like to do a little pulse of TSS (followed by a rest week) before FTP testing and training more formally in November. Lots of 2-3 hours spins and a larger one (5+) on Saturday. Only two rides in, but the legs are still feeling fresh.

TMonk 10-27-22 02:53 PM

About 2hr this morning with a 2x20' on Fiesta Island in position. Was targeting pretty modest power at low/mid SST, and felt smooth and quick with my shoulders shrugged and head low. That netted me 10 minute laps (with pocketed "speed" suit and shallow depth wheels). Takes about 40-45 watts more to do that time on the road bike.

TMonk 10-28-22 01:57 PM

Another couple this morning on Zwift, mostly cruising with the B paced bots. I hammered several times (against my better judgement) approaching hills, surging ahead of the pack and riding pace for a few minutes till I would get reabsorbed. I guess it's OK since I'm not planning on continuing training next week.

Hermes 10-28-22 04:39 PM

Yesterday, SD Velo sprint workout - jumps and 4 sets of 2 flying 100 and 1 flying 200.

Today, Leg strength training - activation, back squat, dead lift, seated press and Bulgarian split squat.

TMonk 10-29-22 09:26 AM

^
I will be at SDVA at 6 AM tmrrw to volunteer for the fall swapmeet. If I can get a del on some aero road drop bars at 38 or 40 cm before the gates open I'll be stoked. Want to replace the stock 42 cm aerofly on my Venge.

My riding buddy bailed this morning, so Iim 90 min into a 5 hr trainer ride. Thought about bookending some around the SDBC A ride but I have no self control and woulld hammer my brains out, which I don't think would serve me well atm.

Hermes 10-31-22 02:10 PM

Two days at Fiesta - one intervals the other TTT.

revchuck 10-31-22 03:01 PM

Well, I've had to hang up my running shoes, spinal stenosis has made it unsustainable. So I'm back on the bike full time other than gym time.

I'm working on building back my endurance and started on intervals last week - 3x8' sweet spot last week and 4x7' today. We're using my pre-chemo FTP that I had while mostly running as a SWAG until my endurance is good enough to do a good 20-minute test, and it seems to be about right. My strength on the bike is slowly but steadily coming back. My goal event is a re-do of Latoja in September '23 - when I did it in '18 I was the strongest I've been on the bike, but I had a career-best bonk about 130 miles in. :( Ultrarunning has taught me a lot about nutrition, so I plan to make up the time I lost bonked with steady, non-stop effort this time. I don't know if I'll get as strong as I was the first time, but I shouldn't be far off.

I'm working on upper body in the gym using a combination of bodyweight exercises, free weights, and machines. My near-term goal is to be able to do an honest pull-up. It's turned out to be harder than I thought it would be. I expect I'll be using it for bike-specific stuff before too long as well.

Hermes 10-31-22 04:34 PM

Welcome back Chuck.

mollusk 11-01-22 09:27 PM

I used to race but have not ridden much for the last few years. Even after I quite racing at 60 I rode with a good friend that was a former domestic pro for years until he died from brain cancer. After that I rarely rode. God damn I am out of shape and heavy. Now 68 years old and finally getting back on the bike. Mostly short rides (ten miles or so) to get my "sitting muscles" in shape on my town bike. That takes some time.

I never raced on my Curtlo, but that is the bike I will tune up first for road riding. It is my one road bike with compact gearing and I might need that until I get stronger. It was my "climbing" bike for North Georgia (6 Gap roads but never did the actual 6 Gap ride. Did all gaps in one day with a friend, though) and western North Carolina that has some really good climbs. The Blue Ridge Parkway is great, but some of the climbs up to the Blue Ridge are way more epic. And it was my rainy day trainer bike when I was racing.

So my training status is F-me.

And racing again is out of the question.

But I do miss it and sometimes dream about it.

Hermes 11-03-22 09:51 AM

Yesterday, leg strength session and added jumping - 2 sets of 10 reps each leg. I use a 12 inch step and put my right leg on the bench with my left on the floor. I jump by pushing off with the right leg to get airborne and then land with my left leg on the bench and right on the floor. Now keep repeating. I got gassed almost immediately. For those of us that have, ahem, less than perfect disc and cartilage material, it is the landing that compresses the nerves and joints so I land like a cat. Of course, if one has the hot sauce:D, one can jump up on a box from the floor with one leg and land on the top. The elite guys can do this. How do I feel this AM? About the same as any other morning after a strength session. Ok.

One of the potential problems of heavy / strength training is that although one gets much stronger, the muscle contracts forcefully it may not relax fast enough. Plyometrics fires the muscle explosively and relaxes it quickly to prepare for another movement. So for sprinting on the bike, plyometrics of some kind is beneficial in addition to building bone density. And explosive power is an asset in daily life. YMMV.

I find it somewhat annoying at the gym that I struggle with setting up the Olympic lifting bars and weights. The straight Olympic bar and deadlift trap bar each weighs 45 pounds. The Olympic bar is long and awkward when it is not on the stand. So first I have to adjust the rack to my height. Then I have to power clean the bar to shoulder level and put it on the rack. How hard is that? Not that hard but not trivial. Then I start the progression of adding weight to the bar and building up to my final 6 rep back squat set. And since the Olympic bar is long, one has to get in the middle of the bar and balance / control the weight when standing upright as well as during the squat and move forward and backward from the rack with the weight on ones back. So this exercise builds core muscles to the max as well as balance.

The trap bar is vertical in a rack. So I have to lift it out of the rack and carry it to the station. Then bending over, I have to lift one end of the 45 pound bar and load weights. Then I have to load weight to the bar as I begin the deadlift session. And of course rerack the bars and weights to their original position for the next user.

Contrast all that overhead to for two lifts to siting down at a leg press machine and setting a pin for the correct weight and adjusting the seat. That is a dream.

The upshot of all this is not many people and close to zero except me old guys use the Olympic station setup and we have 5 stations. And once one is in a station, one is there for some period of time lifting, resting and loading and unloading weight. The trainers at the gym typically avoid the setup and I think it is due to taking too much time. They use kettlebells and dumbbells and other machines and etc to work the same muscles and move clients from exercise to exercise quickly. No one wants to pay a trainer $X per hour while resting 2 to 3 minutes between deadlifts and backsquats.

Having done the multi joint Olympic style lifts, I find them extremely beneficial for cycling and general health and worth the overhead of setup and tear down and rest between sets.

Just some miscellaneous musing this AM.

revchuck 11-06-22 06:33 PM

Gettin' back in the groove. Just under ten hours on the bike this past week, including two days with 4x7' sweet spot intervals that would qualify as threshold intervals if I knew the FTP we're working with is accurate. I also had two days in the gym; I'm usually pretty cooked when I get done. TSS for the week is 513, which doesn't include the gym work. CTL is 39, ATL is 62. Next week is a "step-down" week, not quite a recovery week. The following week has yet to be planned out, though I'll be going back to three gym days a week. I asked my coach about going to longer intervals and she was receptive to the idea. Things are progressing. :)

procrit 11-07-22 05:29 AM

Ended up with a nasty cold and then bronchitis which kept me off the bike for almost two weeks. I’m now in full base miles mode, and back in the gym to add some strength and muscle mass. I think at 40+ I need to at least spend some of my time in the gym year round to maintain strength and keep the joints strong, I lose the strength gains so fast now compared to even 10 years ago

TMonk 11-07-22 10:09 AM

Nice to see you guys posing again revchuck and mollusk.

We have rain on the forecast for the next two mornings, so I thought I would get my opener efforts done outside today instead of on zwift. I was met with drizzle towards the coast, and now my new bike isn't clean and spiffy any more :(. That's ok, I still mostly enjoyed my time out there. HR/power is a bit high, which is to be expected atm haha. I've got a ways to go! Time to start training. HR variability was high and quite responsive up and down, so I'm nicely rested and ready for some TSS. CTL at ~70 right now.

Yep 11-09-22 03:39 AM

I don't think I can commit to getting in the gym this offseason, but could I still help myself by doing body weight and dumbbell stuff at home?

TMonk 11-15-22 02:24 PM


Originally Posted by Yep (Post 22705391)
I don't think I can commit to getting in the gym this offseason, but could I still help myself by doing body weight and dumbbell stuff at home?

I think so. You might not see huge strength or performance gains, but it could indirectly help with injury prevention, form, and whole-body wellness. I realize that last one is a bit vague.

After suffering through a couple months of knee problems last off-season (as I have before), I started doing at-home body weight and dumbell strength work, focusing on glute and VMO muscles, and I feel like it's been hugely beneficial. One's "feelings" aren't exactly objective or measurable, but those feelings have translated to better headspace on and off the bike.

At some point I would consider getting back into fundamentals lifts like squats and deadlifts, but I personally don't want to deal with the hassle of the gym at this point. Maybe if I get home/garage setup for that eventually. I'm doing 20-30 lb dumbell weighted lunges and high box step-ups, and outside of that my routine is pretty light tbh. I still do it once/week and im conditioned enough such that it doesn't detract from the following day's bike performance. Pure maintenance.

TMonk 11-15-22 02:30 PM

3 hrs on the trainer this morning, all z2. Spent the first bit in a lively group ride, and the rest cruising the flats of Tempus Fugit while watching track racing on youtube.

Legs pretty sore still after Saturday's indiscretions.... I wanted 4 hours of steady z2 but thought that I could exercise some self control and sit-in on the local A ride, but I never learn. I have no self control - I absolutely smashed the front of that ride lol. After Sunday off and an easy day yesterday, my legs are sitll recovering as I'm on the ride with CTL.

I'm confident that with some light (Z2-3) work on the TT bike tomorrow and a day off Thursday, I should be good to go for this weekend's El Tour de Tucson. I am planning to allow myself a couple of days to recover into my final week of base 1, which should be high volume and nearly all z2. El Tour is a flat, fast, fun 4 hour century. I will make sure the group I land in is smooth and fast with eager willingness to rotate through on front. There's really only two "attack" sections on the ride that result in separation.

Hermes 11-16-22 09:16 AM

Yesterday, I did 30” on 1’ off on Fiesta time trial bike. It was a beautiful morning at Mission Bay with cool temps and absolutely no wind. The bay was like glass. In the afternoon, I did upper body strength training.

caloso 11-17-22 12:41 AM

Bike training has been sporadic lately, but I am running and hiking a fair bit. So there’s that.

Earlier in the year I paused my Zwift account because I was riding outside exclusively. For some reason I thought I would have to manually reactivate it, but I just checked it and they’ve been billing me the last couple months. Oh well, I guess that’s on me for not checking sooner.

himespau 11-17-22 05:38 AM


Originally Posted by caloso (Post 22713012)
Bike training has been sporadic lately, but I am running and hiking a fair bit. So there’s that.

Earlier in the year I paused my Zwift account because I was riding outside exclusively. For some reason I thought I would have to manually reactivate it, but I just checked it and they’ve been billing me the last couple months. Oh well, I guess that’s on me for not checking sooner.

There are 2 different ways to stop your account so that you can later restart it, and it's kind of confusing and not explained well (that might be on purpose). Pausing it stops it for a set period of time (can't remember how long it is) and then it restarts automatically. You can also cancel your account (make sure to not choose delete, the 3rd option because that removes all of your data). If you choose that option, you can manually restart it later with all of your data still saved. I think the only reason "Pause" exists is they hope that you'll forget about it and it'll auto restart and you keep paying in without realizing it - sort of the gym membership model where gyms stay in business from all of the people who sign up in January, stop going in February, but can't be bothered to cancel their memberships. I mean I like Zwift and ride on it almost exclusively after I got hit, but that always seemed a bit shady to me.

Yep 11-17-22 08:38 AM


Originally Posted by TMonk (Post 22711580)
I think so. You might not see huge strength or performance gains, but it could indirectly help with injury prevention, form, and whole-body wellness. I realize that last one is a bit vague.

After suffering through a couple months of knee problems last off-season (as I have before), I started doing at-home body weight and dumbell strength work, focusing on glute and VMO muscles, and I feel like it's been hugely beneficial. One's "feelings" aren't exactly objective or measurable, but those feelings have translated to better headspace on and off the bike.

At some point I would consider getting back into fundamentals lifts like squats and deadlifts, but I personally don't want to deal with the hassle of the gym at this point. Maybe if I get home/garage setup for that eventually. I'm doing 20-30 lb dumbell weighted lunges and high box step-ups, and outside of that my routine is pretty light tbh. I still do it once/week and im conditioned enough such that it doesn't detract from the following day's bike performance. Pure maintenance.

Tracks with what I've experienced. I do core work, my back and general feel on the bike are great, then I take it for granted and stop until things start hurting again. Rinse and repeat.

I've just started up again and already feeling better. As far as "proper lifting" goes, I spose as you say it's a continuum and not some certain lift or weight that magically flips a switch.

TMonk 11-17-22 08:43 AM

I think there are bigger physiological benefits to be had from doing power lifts with reps of 6-10, but yeah I hear ya, I think it is a continuum between that and the lighter stuff. As far as lighter stuff goes, I do lots of glute bridges, side leg raises (both banded), and step-downs. Th step downs are great as they hit the VMO and the quad and offer a good chance to think about form.

Yep 11-17-22 08:47 AM

I'm letting my CTL drop down to 70-75 over the next couple weeks, then I'll turn around and start ramping back up for my first gravel race in late April. I really don't like setting a peak so early in the year, so maybe I'll call it a B. Anyway, I'm really stoked to do it, and based on the results of guys I've raced with, I think a top 10 might be on the cards, which would be great for morale.

I'm working on consistently doing that core work (5 or 10 minutes per day) and tracking weight. I've been at 160+ this last couple of seasons, and I know I could get down to at least 154, maybe even 152, and that would be a game changer.

caloso 11-17-22 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by himespau (Post 22713084)
There are 2 different ways to stop your account so that you can later restart it, and it's kind of confusing and not explained well (that might be on purpose). Pausing it stops it for a set period of time (can't remember how long it is) and then it restarts automatically. You can also cancel your account (make sure to not choose delete, the 3rd option because that removes all of your data). If you choose that option, you can manually restart it later with all of your data still saved. I think the only reason "Pause" exists is they hope that you'll forget about it and it'll auto restart and you keep paying in without realizing it - sort of the gym membership model where gyms stay in business from all of the people who sign up in January, stop going in February, but can't be bothered to cancel their memberships. I mean I like Zwift and ride on it almost exclusively after I got hit, but that always seemed a bit shady to me.

Yeah, I think that's exactly it. I like Zwift. During the pandemic, my teammates started a Monday night shoot-the-shizz group ride where we'd be on Discord and there'd be the rubber band thing so we could all see each other, and I really enjoyed it. And I like running it concurrently with a TR workout, as it gives me something to focus on other than the power read out. Like you said, the pause thing seems a little shady especially since I never got an email saying "hey, we're charging you again," but that's probably on me for not reading the fine print.


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