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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

79pmooney 09-19-20 08:09 PM


Originally Posted by fawudd (Post 21695075)
I recently retrieved my old Vitus 979 with Vittoria sewups that had been sitting indoors away from UV for about 20 years. Amazingly, the tires look good, hold air well, and felt fine on a ride around the block. Then they went for a 10 mile ride while I waited for new tires to arrive, then another, then a 15 mile ride. These are flat rides with no high speeds. Even though the new tires arrived, I have repeatedly delayed making the change because it is not my main bike, and it rides as well as ever. 2 questions :

1. How risky do you think it is to keep using the tires for 10-15 mile flat rides at low speed ?
2. Once the tires are changed, and assuming they come off the rim in one piece, would you keep one of the existing tires as a spare?

Thanks

I trust you either tried to push the infltated tires i=off the rim or rode gently around corners, I wouldn't trust un-tested 20 year old glue.

Lord Donnington 09-20-20 07:21 PM

Removing the valve cores
 
I remove the valve core with my granite juicy valve cap/remover tool and then squeeze in the Stans. Put the valve core back in and spin the wheel a bit. Then pump it up to 100 and see if it holds... it usually does and I am off again.

tcpasley 09-21-20 09:26 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 21667068)
I don't know how rim weight effects the ride qualities of tubular tires, so I can't speak to that part of your question.

However, I'm a big guy, while currently a reasonable 210 for my 6' 1" height, I've weighed at times as much as 300+. The bike with tubulars I ride the most is my '71 Schwinn Paramount P13 which runs Fiamme Ergal red label tubular rims on HiE hubs. Fiamme are known as lightweight rims (not certain of the weight) which can be a bit touchy about keeping true. In my experience, I've not had any trouble with these rims going out of true and the roads here in the NH mountains are notoriously rough (plus I ride a good bit of dirt and gravel roads). Of course YMMV.

IMO you are safe to use lighter rims as long as the wheels are built and tensioned correctly. I'd err on the side of the more spokes and crosses of the spokes the better, in order to achieve a very sturdy and durable wheel. Best of luck on your decision.

Thanks, Pastor Bob. I guess I was mainly thinking of heavier rims negating the typical advantage of lower circumferential weight offered by tubular wheels. I'll probably never ride tires less that 25mm wide, and that would preserve most of the "plushness", but I wouldn't want to lose the "snappiness" of light rims. I have a set of 36h Ambrosio Montreals laced 3x to Campy Record hubs that should be sufficiently strong with the 27 mm and 30 mm tires I have. They are 2-3 mm wider and presumably stronger than my GL330/Nuovo Tipo wheelset, and the Montreal brake tracks seem taller.

I actually have a set of HiE hubs and some Araya 16B Red Label rims that would make a "stupid light" set of wheels. But only if I can get in shape. Something to work towards.


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 21672444)
tcpasley GL330s are pretty light. I'm at 160 lb and I wrecked a pair in a couple of pot holes. I still have a pair on one of my regular riders and they have been fun but when they are banged up, I won't be looking to replace them with same. (I write this now but light wheels are a kick and who knows.) If I were you, I'd get a pair of Ambrosio Nemesis which are still available. I have Nemesis on one bike and have ridden them on multiple very rough events and they are like new. Mavic Tubular Open Pros are still around but we don't know what the future of Mavic will be. I don't think Velocity is making the Escapes anymore so replacement rims will be hard to come by and you may as well find a pair of GP4s which I have also ridden on the rough stuff and they are "bullet proof". In sum: Go new and go Ambrosio.

Thanks, Classtime. I checked on eBay for Nemesis rims and they're pretty scarce. I just missed out on a set of HED Belgium C2/DT Swiss hub wheels that would have fit the bill, but I may have a line on some GP4 wheels. I'm not sure if the GP4s would be stronger than the Ambrosio Montreals mentioned above.

seedsbelize 09-22-20 01:42 PM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 21703219)
On the wheel tubular repair. Pics don't show.

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycl...re-repair.html

I thank you for this, and also for the link within a link, which talks about mixing it up with powered latex and ethyl antifreeze. I just looked at the cost of this stuff. And went immediately to look up the cost of powdered latex. I generally don't get flats where I ride, but it's nice to be prepared.
How does one generally find the puncture, when the air is escaping the tire from elsewhere? Surely there is a method.

Classtime 09-22-20 03:20 PM

I just put one in my cart. But.....Covid.....shipping ?

https://ciclicorsa.com/shop/ambrosio...s-tubular-rim/

JohnDThompson 09-22-20 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize (Post 21707809)
How does one generally find the puncture, when the air is escaping the tire from elsewhere? Surely there is a method.

Look for external evidence of puncture; foreign object stuck in the tread, obvious slice, etc. Put some air in and submerge to see where the bubbles form on the tread or sidewall. You'll almost always get some bubbles at the valve stem, not because there's a leak there, but because the stem has an opening in the casing and base tape where air can escape.

Classtime 09-22-20 05:34 PM

...and try to seal off the casing at the stem when you submerge the tire. Some times a good grip with the stem between your fingers or pinch off the tire on either side of the stem by folding the tire or using vise grips.

seedsbelize 09-22-20 06:55 PM

Great. Thanks

WGB 09-29-20 11:16 AM

As I venture further afield on tubulars the reality is that sooner or later I'll be switching out a tire. I priced a "real" tubular holder on the 'Bay and no way I'm eating $49 + shipping.

Any photos of how people carry spares (not around shoulders or in pockets please)???

79pmooney 09-29-20 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 21719300)
As I venture further afield on tubulars the reality is that sooner or later I'll be switching out a tire. I priced a "real" tubular holder on the 'Bay and no way I'm eating $49 + shipping.

Any photos of how people carry spares (not around shoulders or in pockets please)???

Traditionally the tires were folded/rolled up into a neat7" x 2" x 3" package, then secured under the seat with a toestrap. You can find videos on how to make that fold. It is not hard. It is good practice to put the tire inside a sock or the like for UV and dirt protection but many do not. I rarely did and very fairly had issues other than a dirtier tire. There are hundreds of photos out there that show older bikes and the rolled spares. Eroica, classic bike rides, etc. or just potos of serious rides 50 years ago.

Edit: Not a perfect fold but close.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...adbd17c90c.jpg

Ben

WGB 09-29-20 02:20 PM

Ben

Thanks for input. Should've said I want to keep tire clean to protect glue as well as keep dirt off which might interfere with a good tire/rim seal.

I saw a post somewhere where the tubular was folded into a sock and that was then placed in a thin tube which was installed in an underside down tube water bottle cage.

I can't use my underside cage with a bottle as my cranks catch the bottle so may just wrap as you did but then cover in a plastic bag to keep dirt off it. I know they make tool sets that fit water bottle cages but wondering if this method is a bad idea. Any thoughts???

DiabloScott 09-29-20 04:39 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 21719344)

Edit: Not a perfect fold but close.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...adbd17c90c.jpg

Ben

Nice presentation.
I use a cord to tie the tire up, and a toe strap to attach it to the saddle rails. Had one fall out once, cheap insurance.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...06406973d.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...79f71e5ac.jpeg

sewupnut 09-29-20 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by Scooper (Post 1831779)
Ummm. Too many flats, too long for the glue to dry, too messy.

Solution: Clinchers and a patch kit.

Been there, done that.

You must be talking about that old red glue. Vittoria Mastic lasts forever, and if you stretch em on right, no mess. Started riding Veloflex Roubaix's years ago and have had exactly one flat. And that was from a tack that I didn't see to avoid. Always carry a can of Pit Stop along with one spare just in case. The difference in ride between a decent tubular and ANY clincher makes it worth it to me. Last major ride with tubbies was the 108 mile Taos Gran Fondo. Appreciated having those Roubaix's on in that 25 mile descent on rough chip seal back to Taos.

sewupnut 09-29-20 05:26 PM


Originally Posted by San Rensho (Post 1834267)
My technique.

1. Stretch the tire. Ideally, put it on the rim and inflate to max pressure and leave it for 1 week. If its 8pm and you need to race on it the next morning, try this. With no air in it, try to get the tire to stretch onto the rim without too much resitance. It should go on snug but easily by hand, you shouldn't need a pry bar/ tire remover to get it on. If it goes on, good, proceed to step 2. If not, sit in a chair grab one end of the tire with both hands, hook the other end under your feet and progressively apply pressure to stretch the tire. Go slowly but you will likely have to apply a lot of force to stretch, just don't go ape and rip the tire apart. Stretch until it goes on just snug, but easily.

2. Prepare the rim. Rough up the rim with a wire brush or coarse grit sandpaper. Clean meticulously with brake parts cleaner. Put masking tape on the side of the rim where the brakes pads make contact. This will save at least minutes, if not hours, of cleaning and recleaning to get glue off the sides of the rims.

3. Apply the glue. ****er up both the rim and the tire and don't skimp on the glue! Hang them both up to dry overnight.

4. Put the tire on the rim. The glue is contact cement, so remember, once you touch the parts together they STICK. Put just enough air in the tire so it barely holds its shape, put the valve in the rim. With the valve at 12 oclock, put the rim on the floor perpendicular to the floor. Grab the tire with both hands, each hand about 1 foot from the valve. Now pull the tire apart and simultaneously push down and place the tire on the rim. The idea is to stretch it is much as possible before you put it on the rim. Repeat until you get about 1/2 way around the tire, flip the tire over and continue on the other side, it gets easier now, because you can hold the wheel with your foot while you pull on the tire to stretch it as you put it on the rim. Quickly straighten the tire on the rim. There should be a bead of glue between the tape on the tire and the rim. Remove masking tape.

5. Test your handiwork. Inflate to max. pressure. Try as hard as you can to roll the tire off the rim with your thumbs. The tire should not move at all and the tire tape should not come even slightly unglued from the rim. If this is so, go out and ride/race! If not, let it dry some more overnight and check in the morning. Hey, the masking tape works, doesn't it? No grabby brakes, no squeal.

My method: Stretch new tire on an old rim for a day or so. Remove, Cover the new rim with a thin layer of glue. I use an old toothbrush. Apply thin glue layer to base tape. Set aside for about 15 minutes. Just before mounting, add another thin glue layer to the rim then stretch on the tire making sure the valve stem is straight up. Pump up to 40 lbs or so and check that all is straight.Adjust as necessary. Assuming you used Vittoria Mastik, race your heart out the next day and all the days thereafter until you have to replace the tire.

79pmooney 09-29-20 08:48 PM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 21719583)
Ben

Thanks for input. Should've said I want to keep tire clean to protect glue as well as keep dirt off which might interfere with a good tire/rim seal.

I saw a post somewhere where the tubular was folded into a sock and that was then placed in a thin tube which was installed in an underside down tube water bottle cage.

I can't use my underside cage with a bottle as my cranks catch the bottle so may just wrap as you did but then cover in a plastic bag to keep dirt off it. I know they make tool sets that fit water bottle cages but wondering if this method is a bad idea. Any thoughts???

An underside cage is a great idea! Never occurred to me, but, I started using the Lezyne cages with the sides but no top for an underside cage on my best fix gear to hole a bag with sandals. (Riding Cycle Oregon as a 60 yo with toeclips, toestraps pulled tight, slotted cleats and shoes with straps was killer on my feet for the 30,000' weeks. Having sandals to slip into at the rest stops was huge.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c44a5c47c4.jpg

I would be careful to make sure that it cannot possibly fall out, unroll and get caught up in the rear wheel. A toestrap or other quality strap around the tire, than a second to hold the package in the cage. (My sandal bag has strap underneath that serves as an eye that the toestrap goes through. The bag with its tight fit and zipper serve as the first strap.)

79pmooney 09-29-20 09:30 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 21719810)
Nice presentation.
I use a cord to tie the tire up, and a toe strap to attach it to the saddle rails. Had one fall out once, cheap insurance.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...06406973d.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...79f71e5ac.jpeg

I knew you'd pitch in! Thanks.

tcpasley 10-01-20 10:22 PM

Resurrecting "vintage" tubular tires?
 
I have 3 old Vittoria Corsa CX Servizio Corse tires that came with a lode of "free" wheels I picked up. They were still barely attached to the rims with fossilized red mastic and none will hold air. The treads and high thread count sidewalls are in decent shape, but the sidewall latex is long gone. I thought I might try to patch one, and opened it up to find the latex tube was split beyond repair.

These look like they were quality tires back in the day. I have some latex tubes, and I was contemplating sending the tires and tubes to Tire Alert for repair. I would also have to seal the sidewalls with Tent Sure or Seam Grip or Cork Renew. I could even try to replace the tubes and base tape myself, as an act or penitent self-flagellation.

Has anyone had luck with Tire Alert repairing older tires like this? Or is replacing a tube more than I should attempt? Any advice is appreciated.

woodcraft 10-02-20 10:27 AM


Originally Posted by tcpasley (Post 21723771)
I have 3 old Vittoria Corsa CX Servizio Corse tires that came with a lode of "free" wheels I picked up. They were still barely attached to the rims with fossilized red mastic and none will hold air. The treads and high thread count sidewalls are in decent shape, but the sidewall latex is long gone. I thought I might try to patch one, and opened it up to find the latex tube was split beyond repair.

These look like they were quality tires back in the day. I have some latex tubes, and I was contemplating sending the tires and tubes to Tire Alert for repair. I would also have to seal the sidewalls with Tent Sure or Seam Grip or Cork Renew. I could even try to replace the tubes and base tape myself, as an act or penitent self-flagellation.

Has anyone had luck with Tire Alert repairing older tires like this? Or is replacing a tube more than I should attempt? Any advice is appreciated.


I've never had a tire that I thought was a candidate for replacing the tube, & putting time & money into old & unknown ones would only be for learning or practice.

Obtaining and replacing basetape in particular seems way too hard and unlikely to succeed.

I did this repair kind of for kicks- it worked and I rode it for a while, but wasn't expecting much, and no money was invested.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...42af7f931b.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4b1a914d4a.jpg

tcpasley 10-02-20 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by woodcraft (Post 21724487)
I've never had a tire that I thought was a candidate for replacing the tube, & putting time & money into old & unknown ones would only be for learning or practice.


Obtaining and replacing basetape in particular seems way too hard and unlikely to succeed.


I did this repair kind of for kicks- it worked and I rode it for a while, but wasn't expecting much, and no money was invested.



Thanks. Good job on that repair.

I hate to throw away anything I can fix, but on further consideration, I think I'll hold off and use the latex tubes in my best clinchers to see if I can believe the hype about the ride quality. I looked into replacing tubes, and I don't have the heart to either cut open a whole tire and re-stitch it or cut a new tube and splice it. And the old tubulars are only 700x20, which wouldn't support my prodigious quarantine mass these days.

I'll save my time and splurge on 2 new 25mm Sprinter Gatorskins instead of 3 sketchy repaired tires.

woodcraft 10-02-20 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by tcpasley (Post 21724616)
Thanks. Good job on that repair.

I hate to throw away anything I can fix, but on further consideration, I think I'll hold off and use the latex tubes in my best clinchers to see if I can believe the hype about the ride quality. I looked into replacing tubes, and I don't have the heart to either cut open a whole tire and re-stitch it or cut a new tube and splice it. And the old tubulars are only 700x20, which wouldn't support my prodigious quarantine mass these days.

I'll save my time and splurge on 2 new 25mm Sprinter Gatorskins instead of 3 sketchy repaired tires.


Good choice, except for the gatorskin part.

RobbieTunes 10-02-20 01:00 PM

What are folks using on core threads and valve extensions?

I have a front that is good for about 40 miles and loses air.
Fairly new Zipp Tangente and I’m pretty sure it’s the valve.
With about 6 bikes on tubulars, I want them ready for cold air.
Winter’s coming.

ljsense 10-02-20 01:37 PM

Barge cement works if needed as tubular glue.

I ran out of Vittoria Mastik and either needed to find a substitute or give up on a ride.

The barge cement I used came in a metallic tube. I applied it about the same way as I would tubular cement, but didn't let it dry for any extra amount of time, and didn't do multiple layers -- just once over the rim.

When I got more Mastik, I peeled off the tire and used the real stuff. I was surprised how well the Barge Cement worked -- pulling off the tire required some work. It had a strong hold, but did not tear the base tape. Came off cleanly. It was different from Mastik -- it didn't form that crust, and seemed to spread thinner. That could be due to the relative short length I had it on, and not doing a bunch of layers.

Anway, just wanted to report this somewhere in case it's useful for anyone. I don't know why you'd use it as a first option, but if you are ever in a pinch and need something, check the glues you use to repair shoes and whatnot -- Barge Cement did the job for me.

tcpasley 10-02-20 02:56 PM


Originally Posted by woodcraft (Post 21724710)
Good choice, except for the gatorskin part.

Well, that changed pretty quick. They were in my cart at $45 and change, but magically went up to $55. Then I magically made them disappear from my cart. From now on I'll shop the British sites instead of the world's richest man's site.

Classtime 10-02-20 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by tcpasley (Post 21724956)
Well, that changed pretty quick. They were in my cart at $45 and change, but magically went up to $55. Then I magically made them disappear from my cart. From now on I'll shop the British sites instead of the world's richest man's site.

Iím a 25mm Sprinter Gatorskin fan for Epic Mixed Surface Rides. But I just got some 22mm Sprinters And they are really neat tires. 41 bucks apiece somewhere. Almost as nice as the Vittoria Corsas Iím trying on another bike and less than 1/2 the cost.

And Robbie, the only experience I have with extenders was some Bontrager Race X Lites and Tufo tubular Clinchers. I used that white plumbers tape for threads. I recall it working after a couple of tries getting the portion just right.

L134 10-03-20 07:58 PM

Merlin Cycles has Veloflex Vlaanderen on sale for $52.31. I thought they were out of production?? Veloflex website doesn't show them. $27 shipping to US a drag but I ordered 3 so $61/per tire still not bad. I think your order has to get somewhere north of $300 for free shipping to US.


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