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-   -   Interesting finds around the web (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=929230)

taras0000 11-23-17 07:58 AM

There's two problems with publishing wind tunnel data. The data will vary for the same item from tunnel to tunnel because the testing apparatuses are different. The second is competitive. Even if you are the leader, publishing your data may be harmful if you're not far ahead. It was mentioned previously that the Zipp combo is drastically cheaper than a Comete/Io, and if it is slower it may be so close that it doesn't matter. If people see no real cost:benefit, then who's going to pay for all the wheels that get given to National federations?

carleton 11-23-17 09:52 AM

Agreed.

I don’t think they even *claim* to be the fastest.

They only write, “Totally reinvented for the 2016 Rio Olympics, the iO is faster than ever.”

Clythio 11-23-17 06:05 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20010605)
This is so easy for Mavic to settle by publishing wind tunnel data. I find it curious that they do not. I also find it curious that they donít offer a 5 spoke for the meticulous road TT crowd.

Personally, Iím convinced that the 808 is faster.

Which 808? It changed a lot with time.
From the first golfball solution from 2007 (?), trough the strange bulb design from 2010 with very narrow tubular glue berth, to the large firecrest up to the strange "new" design...

carleton 11-24-17 01:38 AM


Originally Posted by Clythio (Post 20011750)
Which 808? It changed a lot with time.
From the first golfball solution from 2007 (?), trough the strange bulb design from 2010 with very narrow tubular glue berth, to the large firecrest up to the strange "new" design...

All of the 808 Track models. Iím not certain of the year. I bought my set used in 2009 I think. So maybe they were the 2007 model. I think the current Zipp 808 Track is probably as fast or faster than the Mavic Rio IO. Both have wide rim beds now.

rustymongrel 11-24-17 06:57 AM

All versions of the 808 are fast. The original fully toroidal rim from 2006-2010 is the one that was tested against the IO years ago and found to be essentially equal. The wider 808 Firecrest is faster with wider tires (22-23 is ideal) and has better performance in crosswinds. Zipp themselves discontinued the 900 front track disc because they said an 808 firecrest front wheels is faster.

carleton 11-24-17 05:33 PM


Originally Posted by rustymongrel (Post 20012218)
All versions of the 808 are fast. The original fully toroidal rim from 2006-2010 is the one that was tested against the IO years ago and found to be essentially equal. The wider 808 Firecrest is faster with wider tires (22-23 is ideal) and has better performance in crosswinds. Zipp themselves discontinued the 900 front track disc because they said an 808 firecrest front wheels is faster.

Wow. I wondered about what happened to their front disc. I've only seen a couple in photos from US track racers around 2009 or so.

Do you have a link to a source on that info?

Clythio 11-24-17 05:37 PM


Originally Posted by rustymongrel (Post 20012218)
All versions of the 808 are fast. The original fully toroidal rim from 2006-2010 is the one that was tested against the IO years ago and found to be essentially equal. The wider 808 Firecrest is faster with wider tires (22-23 is ideal) and has better performance in crosswinds. Zipp themselves discontinued the 900 front track disc because they said an 808 firecrest front wheels is faster.

Thanks - the red stickers flat surface are pre~2007, when they released red stickers golfball surface, with a flat, parallel braking surface and a kind of a short, "shy" bulb design.

~2009 or 2010 stickers became white and the bulb changed avoiding the flat brake surface, it's more bulge and round but the glue berth became very narrow, and deformation on tires should makes it slower, not from the aero point but from the energy consumption on rolling resistance. Worst with high g on turns.

So, the large tire berth of Firecrests, allowing wider tires remain supported even under high banked turns, should be the best.

I have a set of those 2010 "real bulb" white stickers 808 - track spoke counting and track hub on the front - and even with the 15mm wide tubular bed (yes 15mm) they "feel" fast all the time, and some non-scientific numbers I have for the second lap on 500m TT training sections showed it as good as a ShimanoPro 5 spokes I use to consider a "race wheel"...

As the data I'm talking about for those second laps is speed/power (Powertap), Iīm one more with the idea of 808s being competitive from the aerodynamic point of view.

rustymongrel 11-24-17 08:44 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20013169)
Wow. I wondered about what happened to their front disc. I've only seen a couple in photos from US track racers around 2009 or so.

Do you have a link to a source on that info?

Zipp says it on their disc timeline page at the bottom: http://www.zipp.com/support/identify/discs.php#sm.000049usuaw78cw9zrf126frj59dw

carleton 11-24-17 10:20 PM


Originally Posted by rustymongrel (Post 20013425)
Zipp says it on their disc timeline page at the bottom: Zipp - Speed Weaponry | Support | Identify Zipp Products | Zipp Discs Through Time

Oh snap!


In early August 2014, the long-serving 900 tubular track front disc was discontinued after over 20 years in production. The 808 Firecrest front wheel with a track legal skewer is now faster and lighter and suggested as an ideal substitute.

topflightpro 11-28-17 10:06 AM

New SRM mount options. A lot cheaper than past options too: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/amag...SRM+Mounts&s=0

They have other computer mount options as well.

carleton 11-28-17 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by topflightpro (Post 20019495)
New SRM mount options. A lot cheaper than past options too: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/amag...SRM+Mounts&s=0

They have other computer mount options as well.

That looks really attractive. Note that you have to buy both the mount and the GoPro style saddle mount separately and mate them together. You also have to buy your own M5 nuts and bolts for each ($0.50 total?). This comes to just over $30.

I think Mike Zagorski (also a trackie) sells his metal one for about $75.

Shapeways is interesting. Basically, you design something using 3D modeling software and upload it to their site then you open your "store". People can then order your design to be printed and shipped directly from Shapeways. This is why they don't come with the nuts and bolt, becasue the seller never touches them and Shapeways doesn't have the nuts and bolts.

carleton 11-29-17 11:39 AM

Here is the one I was talking about. It's made of aluminum:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/451930778/srm-rail-mount

https://img0.etsystatic.com/108/0/13...46814_phzv.jpg
https://img1.etsystatic.com/112/0/13...75383_hsiv.jpg

carleton 11-29-17 02:49 PM

I'm under the impression that you have to have an Instagram page in order to be a track sprinter these days.

carleton 11-29-17 02:50 PM

Sam Webster using the Vision cranks:

Baby Puke 11-29-17 11:38 PM


Originally Posted by spartanKid (Post 20022881)
If you dig through IG some more, you'll find evidence of Theo Bos as well as Webster, Dawkins, and Mitchell all riding the vision cranks.

Perhaps an Avanti tie-in?

JimiMimni 11-30-17 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20022108)
I'm under the impression that you have to have an Instagram page in order to be a track sprinter these days.

It's a great media outlet. I enjoy almost all of the content I've found on there, as opposed to Wastebook.

carleton 11-30-17 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 20022919)
Perhaps an Avanti tie-in?

Good call.


Originally Posted by JimiMimni (Post 20023101)
It's a great media outlet. I enjoy almost all of the content I've found on there, as opposed to Wastebook.

I was thinking about this last night and it occurred to me that they probably have "Social Media Obligations" as part of their sponsorships. READ: If you want free stuff, you have to promote it on social media.

I'd imagine that IG is the easiest and most painless popular social media platform. That and Twitter.

+1 on "Wastebook" :thumb:

southernfox 12-01-17 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20023282)
Good call.



I was thinking about this last night and it occurred to me that they probably have "Social Media Obligations" as part of their sponsorships. READ: If you want free stuff, you have to promote it on social media.

I'd imagine that IG is the easiest and most painless popular social media platform. That and Twitter.

+1 on "Wastebook" :thumb:

All of my personal sponsorships include pretty explicit social media activity requirements. IG is generally the most preferred, with Facebook being a distant second. One post per week (or one per month), per sponsor, are the typical asks.

carleton 12-01-17 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by southernfox (Post 20025533)
All of my personal sponsorships include pretty explicit social media activity requirements. IG is generally the most preferred, with Facebook being a distant second. One post per week (or one per month), per sponsor, are the typical asks.

Thanks for confirming that!

It's odd that IG is preferred when IG has explicit rules against advertising. There was an NPR story about how celebrities make thousands of dollars per post when they passively (and actively) endorse something. It's obviously a softly enforced rule and I'm not sure why it's in place to start.


The K*********s now have a week to take those posts down, or Truth in Advertising will notify the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), which in turn could open an official investigation. The group found undisclosed product placement on the Instagram accounts of five K********* siblings, which collectively advertised more than two dozen companies without proper disclosures.

...

FTC regulations require journalists, celebrities and other media personalities to disclose their relationship with companies if they are reimbursed for a review or endorsement. These regulations were initially put in place to make sure TV show hosts wouldnít advertise products without proper disclosures on air, but have since been adapted to the social media age.
Kim Kardashian & Co. In Trouble Over Undisclosed Instagram Ads ? Variety



*(I'll be damned if I ever write their name and promote them, hahaha)

taras0000 12-05-17 12:28 AM

Found an article on France's 3D printed sprint bars.

https://www.3ders.org/articles/20160...-olympics.html

Comes with a video where you can practice your French.

carleton 12-05-17 02:30 PM

Russia Banned From Winter Olympics by I.O.C.


LAUSANNE, Switzerland — Russia’s Olympic team has been barred from the 2018 Winter Games in Pyeongchang, South Korea. The country’s government officials are forbidden to attend, its flag will not be displayed at the opening ceremony and its anthem will not sound.

Any athletes from Russia who receive special dispensation to compete will do so as individuals wearing a neutral uniform, and the official record books will forever show that Russia won zero medals.

That was the punishment issued Tuesday to the proud sports juggernaut that has long used the Olympics as a show of global force but was exposed for systematic doping in previously unfathomable ways. The International Olympic Committee, after completing its own prolonged investigations that reiterated what had been known for more than a year, handed Russia penalties for doping so severe they were without precedent in Olympics history.

The ruling was the final confirmation that the nation was guilty of executing an extensive state-backed doping program. The scheme was rivaled perhaps only by the notorious program conducted by East Germany throughout the 1960s, ’70s and ’80s.
Shane Perkins' gambit may be all for nought.


The sprinter, who will have dual Australian-Russian nationality, felt the switch was his best chance of being able to compete at the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo.

taras0000 12-05-17 04:33 PM

Can't say I didn't see that one coming. Too bad for Shane, but he did make the decision to choose a nation that was already suspected of systemic doping.

brawlo 12-05-17 05:14 PM

If you watch the Icarus doco movie the IOC decision regarding the Brazilian Olympics stinks of corruption. I would say that this is a "slap on the wrist" punishment in lieu of the punishment that the world demanded to be dished out in Brazil and that they will now be given a clean slate by the IOC to attend the Olympics in Japan. "Watch this space"

Baby Puke 12-05-17 05:21 PM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 20035244)
Can't say I didn't see that one coming. Too bad for Shane, but he did make the decision to choose a nation that was already suspected of systemic doping.

The stuff I've read suggests this will only affect the next winter Olympics, so Share should be ok.

taras0000 12-05-17 05:36 PM

I wonder how long it will take for Dr. Grigoriy Rodchenkov to turn up dead. This is a huge embarrassment for Russia. You can bet their radar is focused on him now more than ever.

carleton 12-05-17 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by Baby Puke (Post 20035341)
The stuff I've read suggests this will only affect the next winter Olympics, so Share should be ok.

...for now.

If the doping was sanctioned by the highest sporting orgs in the country, itís not a stretch to assume that summer event athletes were involved, too.

Iím not alluding to Perkins doping. Quite the opposite. He could be one of the clean athletes that has to suffer because of what higher-ups chose to do.

taras0000 12-06-17 02:35 AM

If anyone was looking for custom carbon bars and such - main

SyntaxMonstr 12-06-17 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 20036013)
If anyone was looking for custom carbon bars and such - main

Friend of mine tried them out and complained they were really flexy. He's a sprinter but doesn't put out stupid power. Just something to be aware of.

brawlo 12-06-17 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 20036013)
If anyone was looking for custom carbon bars and such - main

They all look like bars like that Predator company were doing. Just standard bars and stems wrapped in some carbon to become integrated. Not my cup'o'tea but if they sell then good luck to them

taras0000 12-06-17 05:23 PM


Originally Posted by SyntaxMonstr (Post 20036849)
Friend of mine tried them out and complained they were really flexy. He's a sprinter but doesn't put out stupid power. Just something to be aware of.

Interesting. Seems like the maker has a good grasp on layout technique, but maybe not necessarily on the engineering. So in other words, room to improve.


Originally Posted by brawlo (Post 20037500)
They all look like bars like that Predator company were doing. Just standard bars and stems wrapped in some carbon to become integrated. Not my cup'o'tea but if they sell then good luck to them

From what I gathered, he 3D prints the design and wraps around it, so made from scratch each time. A couple of bars looked like they were the sum of some carbon surgery, but most of what was shown on the website looked completely custom.


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