How low can the saddle get?
 

Just for the heck of an experiment, I wanted to see how low I can get the saddle while still getting proper leg extension.
I managed to get the saddle that low that I can touch the ground with both feet while seated on the saddle with the tops of my feet while getting the right leg extension.
All in all the drop is very significant, and my center of gravity has lowered by a lot. The whole ride feeling has changed.

To achieve this, I tried a few mods.
First, getting rid of clipless pedals with a high stack height and going to thin platform pedals + thin soled shoes. This lowers the saddle by 2 to 3 centimeters.
Second, swapping to a more midfoot pedal position.
Thirdly, pushing the saddle as far back as possible, and going for an ultra short stem to maintain the same reach. ( I know, ultra short mtb stems are never used with roadbikes ... but I don't think it's as twitchy as they say -- the human body adapts and accustomes quickly).
Fourthly, swapping to slightly longer cranks (but I still use much shorter cranks than most cyclists namely 145, and 152.).
As a consequence of the lower position I was able to get rid of all stem spacers.

All of these are quite controversial changes to a roadbike, i am well aware.
But for the sake of experimentation, I am going to give it a a good try on the road.
I am significantly lower than before. I don't know how much, but I feel much closer to the ground. And I can touch the ground with both feet while seated in the saddle. it feels awesome. But now sure how it will feel after a long ride...

Are you sure?

If you REALLY want to reduce pedal stack height, you need to get some DynaDrive pedals! Stack height on those is actually negative.

Slam it!

I don't understand this obsession people have about being able to put their feet flat on the ground while on the saddle. It's a bike, not a dandy horse.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...94a3fc566a.jpg

One more way you can reduce saddle height and get proper knee extension is to train yourself pedaling heels down, it can get you lower by another 2 cm.

Longer cranks is definitely not a good idea if you're looking to extend your knees more. Note, it will bend your knees more at the top of the pedal stroke and it makes the situation worse (in my experience riding between a bike with long vs short crank). An alternative option to get the pedals or BB lower is swap your wheels for a smaller set.

I pedal heels down and lowered my seat for the technique and without doing any other of the things you wrote back there, I can put feet down on the ground with ease when I'm stopped. I didn't originally pedaled heels down. I trained for it. I noticed in long rides before I adopted the technique, I've noticed I'm dropping my heels when I'm tired then my saddle feels too high and uncomfortable when my heels are dropped all the way. So I started pedaling heels down all the time, lowered my saddle and all my saddle issues in long rides went away!

I am well aware that what I am doing is a taboo by the mainstream GCN but I don't care.So I took the bike as it is for the first test ride out. I notice that my lower center of gravity makes the bike feel stable - it seems to counterbalance the ultra short 35mm stem. I don't notice the ''increased twitcheness'' of a short stem or I have just not ridden enough yet. My bars have quite a far reach so while in the hoods I am not far off the contact patch in the tire (along that vertical line, I forgot what its called).

I am so low that right now I can basically look car drivers in the eyes through their windshields. And I don't live in SUV country, I am talking normal cars. I also notice I am working different muscle groups now that I am riding much more ''crank forward'', especially the muscles in the lower leg feel much greater use. I will have to build these new muscle groups, but I will persist with it at the moment. The more crank forward position also puts less pressure on the perineum I noticed. I don't know what's more efficient pedalling-- having the crank forward (saddle back) or being seated more above the crank like the TT riders. Sometimes what's accepted as being true isn't always true in cycling. Either way, even being more behind the cranks right now, I have no problem with my thighs hitting my chest even when cycling with a horizontal back because of my short cranks.


Swapping to 650B wheels would drop the whole bike another ~1.9 cm but its an investment I cant afford right now. I'd rather keep the 700C wheels and have the BB dropped a few centimeters but alas that would require a custom frame. Since I ride 145 mm cranks I could do either option without worrying about pedal strikes.

Flattening the tires should drop the saddle some more

If you sit on a phonebook, you can lower the saddle another 2-3 cm and still get full leg extension.

Interesting. Thank you

and the point of all this.....what now? :foo:

There's more to saddle fore/aft than what you can compensate for with a stem, i.e., your hip positioning relative to the bottom bracket. You may have given up the most efficient angle for your legs, along with the rather useful pedals.

You could find a low stack shoe and pedal combo and mount the cleats further back into more of an endurance position, and chuck some 650b wheels on instead.

You should try to get even lower

NSFW

You are not aiming low enough.

Cyclist who rode 100 miles out of the saddle to repeat ride on Zwift to prove he wasn't lying | road.cc

100 miles is a lot if you aren’t used to it. I did three standing only rides last summer when I was a bit saddle sore. About an hour each. Kind of a pain on a single speed, because you have to pedal up, coast and then pedal again.

I threw rear clusters on both bikes recently, so I have taller gears that help with standing more.

But if you really want to do a lot of standing on a round crank bike, you probably want to go down to 150mm cranks to give you a reasonable 300mm or 12” step size. That’s what Elliptigo did with their SUB.

BTW, who’s the guy from Wisconsin (I think?) that some folks here know who rides a custom bike built for standing only?

Otto

That was my thought too: "Why?"

I personally would like to see you touch ‘the tops’ of your feet on the ground. The soles of the feet are easy, but it’s no wonder you are going through all those contortions for the tops. ;)

Get a recumbent.

He should somehow get his feet in the back like a forward recumbent or something. Would suck in a crash though

The shortest clamp style stem (that is typically found on many modern road and MTB bikes) is 32mm. Some unusually designed stems you can buy can get it all the way down to zero.

And if that is not enough, you can take a 32mm stem and install it in reverse! I've experimented with large aft seat position on a road bike. I found that hip position against the BB is irrelevant after getting used to it for a few weeks. What is relevant is the hip angle against the torso. The bigger the angle, the better. Moving the saddle back reduces this angle but you can compensate for it by reducing stem length / reach.

I also experimented with varying stem lengths with regards to steering stability. I discovered that reducing stem length made steering lighter. Not necessarily twitchy. Twitchy was only initially but after a few days of getting used to it. It wasn't twitchy anymore and actually stable and the light steering was incredibly useful for making tight turns. I went as far as taking a 32 mm stem and installing it backwards (not flipped upside down but rotated backwards!). After a short time getting acquainted with it, it was stable to my surprise and even comfortable if you have large aft seat adjustment. The only problem with very close and low handlebar is the knees hitting the handlebar when standing on the pedals even if not pedaling! That problem can be dangerous so I don't recommend it unless your handlebar is high enough, impossible to hit with the knees if you stand.

I definitely considered the wheel conversion. It's something I might do in the future. But I could go down lower than 650B. I won't go with 650C for the sake of practicality, but 559 ERTRO would work. But then I might start risking pedal clips again even with 145 mm cranks. (like you would with 175mm cranks with 700c). And I would need a disc brake bike.

The point of it all is trying to low the saddle-to-ground distance. This increases aerodynamics, safety and lowers the center of gravity. The whole ride feels more stable. To all you boring trolls in this thread, you lack imagination. Of course I fully expected you to arrive ,and all is forgiven.

As to recumbents, been there, done that. They have definite advantages, but also disadvantages. I don't intend to go back to them. What I did like was their lower height. So I am trying to transfer some of that to my roadbike experience.

As to putting both feet down completely flat, that's not my goal and not possible I think without sacrificing leg extension. My current tweaks allow me to fred flint stone the bike but only with the tops of my tops. I still have plenty pedal clearance to go even lower.

I don't think I will go back to clipless pedals. At least not to SPD-SL. When I used SPD-SL and shoes I couldn't walk properly in, I noticed I was much more hesitant to use my bike in a practical manner other than recreational rides, having to carry another set of shoes and constantly change them when I got somewhere. So far my large-surface-area platforms pedals are suiting me superbly. Of course, if I go to smaller wheels, the wide and long platforms might be swapped again for smaller
low stack height clipless pedals to prevent pedal strikes-- but I aint going back to shoes I can't walk in.

Your experience with short stems seem to so far resemble mine Koala Logs.
I don't deny that short stems make for quicker steering, but as to the bike becoming unstable because of it, that's up to the rider. A lot of it is confirmation bias.
If ones believes it will become unstable and start out with usin the short stem with negative impression, it usually ends up being negative. If you start out using the short stem with a positive attitude your body quickly adapts.
In general, shorter stems are helpful for people with too large a frame. Not everyone can afford to simply buy another bike. A $20 stem swap, even if it's an ultra short 35mm one, will make the bike rideable for the person until
he or she can afford a smaller framed bike.

You would also need the special cranks to go with them

Some guy rides(rode?) RAGBRAI on a bike with no saddle. The story I heard is that years ago his saddle broke so he stood to finish the ride. He then stood every mile of RAGBRAI since. The bike I saw him on was designed without a seatpost.

Moving your saddle back completely changes the muscles you use and how your joints are impacted when pedaling.
Lowering the saddle without full leg extension(no chance you actually have them properly extended if you are touching the ground) uses different muscles and makes pushing out power a lot more difficult.

If you want to sit in the bike more than atop the bike, just get a bike with more bottom bracket drop. Its pretty simple.

Or keep doing what you do and call people trolls in the meantime. Either way, I guess.