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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

smontanaro 04-15-22 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by hazetguy (Post 22471437)
... the size and diamond/file tread pattern on the 27 is the same as a Vlaanderen
the size and ribbed pattern on the 25 is the same as Roubaix
as far as i can tell, neither of these tread patterns are in current Veloflex production. the ProTour looks more to me like a marble texture rather than a diamond/file tread.

Mea culpa. Yes, you're correct. Vlaanderen instead of ProTour. I have bikes with both and just confirmed visually.

I have plenty of tubular tires at this point, so coupled with my aversion to Kenda products (nothing looks wrong with these tires though), I will pass on this deal.

jingy2 04-18-22 07:28 PM

Received the Kenda/Veloflex tires-they look good! Hold air at least.
No Veloflex branding at all.
Jim

79pmooney 04-18-22 11:00 PM

Intro here. I've been a BFer a while and probably pitched in a comment or three here but now it's getting real. I have most of what I need to relace/build from scratch wheels for my three good bikes, the fix gear of my logo photo, my Peter Mooney which will run in both triple chainline fix gear mode and 3x7 gravel grinder and my "good bike"; a 3x9 TiCycles.

This is inspired roughly equally by two things. I rolled a clincher off the rim after a blowout 9 years ago and haven't been able enjoy fast downhills without the thought of that nightmare happening. Also that TiCycles fix gear announced that it was the finest bike out there you could have rolled up to the start of any 1989 road race if freewheels and gears had never been invented. The first time I rode it. All it needed was race wheels. The wheels I raced in 1977 would have been just fine (laced to the appropriate track hub). So now it's going to get them. Mavic 330 in front, a very nice and little used early deep V for the rear. For every day use, a less elegant deep V for the rear and one of those heavier, bulletproof Mavics. Haven't bought the regular tires yet. Have Vittoria 200g Corsas for "race day". (This bike needs a deep rim for the rear because I slide the wheel nearly 2" fore and aft going between 12 and 24 teeth on mountain days. Dropout slot is midway between horizontal and angled like a road dropout to keep the brake pads on a Velocity Aero rim and minimize BB height change.)

So all I need now is "training" tires, glue and spokes. I used to ride the Vittoria 300g cottons in ribbed tread and whatever brand name was on them. (I would have loved the ribbed treads I rode back them but I took them completely for granted until they disappeared in the '80s. Vittoria put them on the G+ tires and it was "oh yeah!"

Glue - a good hard race glue for the featherweight Corsas. Tubasti for the "training" tires. (I loved the fast tire changes in any weather, any light, any state of mental capacity - and enough stick for an uneventful rest of the ride. This will take a a few weeks; I've got projects up the ying-yang but every time I go into the garage I see all those rims (that I now have to move because the Mooney just came home with a new tux (paint).

Best of all, goodby to that nightmare that shows its face every hill and has awoken me a few times. (I've blown sewups at 45 and it was such a non-event I do not remember any of the details; where and when, or even which wheel. That clincher blow will be etched in my brain till I go.)

WGB 04-22-22 08:33 PM

Quick questions on Vittoria Corsa Control G2 vs Vittoria Corsa Control G2+ Isotech

Does anyone ride these? I see both available on sale and 30mm should make for a nice ride vs 25s or narrower.

Asking about wear. I see claims that vary but lots of miles quoted and also puncture resistance. Any thoughts on that??

Seeing them for both $47 at Merlin

79pmooney 04-22-22 09:01 PM

More questions on Corsas on general. What are they like to repair? Are they just another traditional hard to peel off base tape, stitching, that light cloth tape inside, latex tube like the good tires of old, only with modern fabrics and thread? I like the G+ (and I think I've ridden a G 2.0 or two) a lot. If the tubular equivalents are solid tires as well as being as nice a ride as the clinchers, I'm in. (I do have something of a soft spot for Vittoria tubulars as I believe most of the rib tread cottons I trained and commuted on in my sewup days were Vittorias rebranded to whatever.) The vast majority were decent tires. Not great but club race-able and not a hardship to ride. $15-20 with few surprises BITD.

Classtime 04-22-22 09:48 PM

The Corsa are ok to repair with that light cloth tape to tuck back in before you stitch it back up. The Rally's are a bear to repair and I think meant to toss in the trash.

DiabloScott 04-22-22 10:43 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22481377)
The Corsa are ok to repair with that light cloth tape to tuck back in before you stitch it back up. The Rally's are a bear to repair and I think meant to toss in the trash.

This is a Pave... I think the same carcass as the Corsa.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0605c9339c.jpg
I haven't had to patch one because the Stans works so well. But this is what it looks like inside.

L134 04-23-22 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 22481317)
Quick questions on Vittoria Corsa Control G2 vs Vittoria Corsa Control G2+ Isotech

Does anyone ride these? I see both available on sale and 30mm should make for a nice ride vs 25s or narrower.

Asking about wear. I see claims that vary but lots of miles quoted and also puncture resistance. Any thoughts on that??

Seeing them for both $47 at Merlin

My tires show just "Corsa" and are 28mm. I like them. I'd say they compare favorably with the Veloflex tires I like, Vlaanderens or ProTours. I have over 1000 urban miles on them with no punctures and maybe less wear than I might have expected. I feel like I usually have to start putting sealant in my tubulars for small punctures at around 800 miles so I would say these are doing better but maybe it is just luck. The Vlaanderens I would get mileage right in line with Veloflex's advertised ranges - not quite 3,000 miles up front and 1800 in the rear. I have a Pro Tour with 2200 on the rear but it could go anytime. I'm thinking the Corsas may do better. If I were in need of tires right now, I would buy either of those at that price but I'm not sure which I would pick.

As for patching Vittoria's I haven't much, if any, experience. I have two Rally's as spares with only limited mileage. The Corsas haven't had a puncture yet. I've had two Pave. The rear failed from a sidewall tear at 1148 miles. The front hangs tubeless at 1191 miles. I had a puncture that sealant wouldn't seal and I couldn't locate so I was going to replace the tube but none of my tubes are small enough to pull through and I haven't been motivated enough to do anything more than hang it on the wall for a later day. I don't recall the tape being any particular chore to separate.

squirtdad 04-25-22 10:53 AM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 22481317)
Quick questions on Vittoria Corsa Control G2 vs Vittoria Corsa Control G2+ Isotech

Does anyone ride these? I see both available on sale and 30mm should make for a nice ride vs 25s or narrower.

Asking about wear. I see claims that vary but lots of miles quoted and also puncture resistance. Any thoughts on that??

Seeing them for both $47 at Merlin

I think the corsa control is pitched as the pave replacement. I had a set in 30mm and ride and handling was great (moved them on with a wheelset as I have new wheel build on progress)

tubesocksFred 04-26-22 10:44 PM

Anybody tried or use Flat Attack sealant? I got some Tufo tubs to replace all the dry rotted ones I had in which a couple exploded on me. I see alot of talk on Stans or Tufo sealant, but from what I know, those are latex based and eventually will gum or ball up. Flat Attack is supposedly one of those never dry ones, which suits me since I will likely use my steel/tubular bike infrequently once my reg bike is back in comission. I don't know if never dry also means not drying when leaking out while trying to seal a hole.

bamboobike4 04-27-22 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by tubesocksFred (Post 22485982)
Anybody tried or use Flat Attack sealant? I got some Tufo tubs to replace all the dry rotted ones I had in which a couple exploded on me. I see alot of talk on Stans or Tufo sealant, but from what I know, those are latex based and eventually will gum or ball up. Flat Attack is supposedly one of those never dry ones, which suits me since I will likely use my steel/tubular bike infrequently once my reg bike is back in commission. I don't know if never dry also means not drying when leaking out while trying to seal a hole.

Another BF member told me to put some sealant in my tubes, to disastrous effect, i.e. a ball around the valve and then the valve leaking.
I simply don't put anything in my tubs, including Tufo's, both totally tubular and the clinching tubulars. I carry sealant and CO2 and a cell if the ride is < 50 miles, a spare if >50 miles. I've never heard of Flat Attack. My Tufo sealant dried up in the bottles, and Stan's is a known quantity that does the same but slower; works fine on tubeless but I'm not putting it into my tubulars. I'm 1 for 3 on trying tubeless on my gravel bikes, but I did buy 2 sets of Mavic wheels last year, with the tubeless Ykison tires already mounted. They've been fine, no flats, nice tires.

bamboobike4 04-27-22 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by WGB (Post 22481317)
Quick questions on Vittoria Corsa Control G2 vs Vittoria Corsa Control G2+ Isotech
Does anyone ride these? I see both available on sale and 30mm should make for a nice ride vs 25s or narrower.
Asking about wear. I see claims that vary but lots of miles quoted and also puncture resistance. Any thoughts on that??
Seeing them for both $47 at Merlin

Durability/Wear
Nice Ride
Puncture Resistance
Price

I'd say pick 2 of the above and if the $47 is included, you're OK.

Any tubular tire that does all 4 above at an excellent level is a gem at $80-$100.
The tires you mention are above average at the categories above, for $47, is darn good.

tubesocksFred 04-27-22 12:13 PM


Originally Posted by bamboobike4 (Post 22486198)
Another BF member told me to put some sealant in my tubes, to disastrous effect, i.e. a ball around the valve and then the valve leaking.
I simply don't put anything in my tubs, including Tufo's, both totally tubular and the clinching tubulars. I carry sealant and CO2 and a cell if the ride is < 50 miles, a spare if >50 miles. I've never heard of Flat Attack. My Tufo sealant dried up in the bottles, and Stan's is a known quantity that does the same but slower; works fine on tubeless but I'm not putting it into my tubulars. I'm 1 for 3 on trying tubeless on my gravel bikes, but I did buy 2 sets of Mavic wheels last year, with the tubeless Ykison tires already mounted. They've been fine, no flats, nice tires.

I was ready to get Stans or the orange stuff as preventive measures since I don't think I ever want to sew up another tubular (which I frequently did before the invention of sealants). Then I came upon this sealant test where they listed different types of sealants, their lifetime inside a tire/tube and their base ingredient.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6833785701.png
It said Ethelyne Glycol based sealants won't gum or ball up. But its effectiveness is not as good. Flat Attack claims they are the original Green sealant (not sure if that is a good thing), and was bench tested with passable result on small punctures (1.2mm thumtack). Just wondering if anyone had real world experience with it (or other non-gunking sealants).

Here is the test of all those sealants:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/...rt_1_4147.html
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/...rt_2_4155.html

hazetguy 04-27-22 01:44 PM

I wanted to follow up on the "Kenda SC" Veloflex tires.
I inquired of the seller as to how they came to get these tires, and if they had any info about the Veloflex connection.
Their reply: "these tires came to us from the Rally team. Kenda was the tire sponsor for them but didn't have the exact spec tires the team needed for racing thus Veloflex--under the Kenda name--was contracted to provide the tires...but as mentioned they were branded Kenda."
I saw numerous mentions online about how the Kenda SC tires are really manufactured by Veloflex for team use.
I also tried to find any tubular tire, present or relatively recent past, manufactured by Kenda, that had the same tread pattern and/or a tan sidewall. There was no such beast, and as best I could tell, Kenda only made/makes two tubular tires and they are all-black.
The "yellow" of the sidewall, the pattern of the base tape, general feel, and the smell, all say Veloflex to me. The tread pattern of the 27 are Vlaanderen: diamond/file, dense along the sides, a bit more spread out in the center, sales jargon: "graduated diamond tread design it is possible to have a low rolling resistance on straight roads, while the road holding during cornering it's granted by a deeper groove of the diamond pattern on the sidewall.", down to the super tiny lines that run along the outer edges of the tread strip.
So, I am personally "convinced" that these are indeed Veloflex manufactured tires, the 25mm being the Roubaix, and the 27mm being Vlaanderen, and that they are just rebranded with the "Kenda SC" logo, for promotional and sponsorship requirements.
The seller seems to have a limited quantity of the 25mm (Roubaix), as the total number available is dwindling. They seem to have a larger quantity of the 27mm (Vlaanderen), as whenever the quantity available drops below a certain point, they get 'restocked' to about 22 available. This 'restocking' has occurred a couple times, but who knows how many more times that will happen.

Here are some comparison pics of the 27mm Kenda SC compared to a "real" Vlaanderen.

"Real" Vlaanderen (with some mileage on them) on top, Kenda SC on bottom:
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...44c22d90d3.jpg

"Real" Vlaanderen on top (previously glued), Kenda SC on bottom
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d3c6db890e.jpg

Same valves:
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...518646dac2.jpg

Kenda SC: 315g (the other one I weighed was 320g)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2c597c7212.jpg

Vlaanderen: 315g
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...02092f8f75.jpg

I don't have any "real" Roubaix for comparison, but here are some in-hand pics of the 25mm Kenda SC tires I received.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a001c38f6.jpg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3dc2ca3833.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e4a5345b8f.jpg

panzerwagon 04-28-22 12:39 AM


Originally Posted by hazetguy (Post 22471437)
i've been watching these Kenda SC for a few weeks. now that the cat's out of the bag (i was hoping these would stay under the radar until my tax return arrives), here's what i've found from my internet 'research', take this info as you want to:

i think the seller is being genuine about their origin, and my speculation is that they are rebranded Veloflex Vlaanderen and Roubaix.
the lack of 'packaging' would correspond with them being a bulk team order. the 'yellow' of the sidewall and the "ribs" on the finish tape scream Veloflex to me. so if you like the Vlaanderen or Roubaix, are willing to take a chance, and can live with the rebranding, this *could* be one of the last times to get some? i haven't seen any other new or used ones for sale in a long time.
i just bought a pair of the 25 size, probable Roubaix. i'll be interested to see, feel, weigh, and smell them (ooooh, that Veloflex smell.....) when they get here.

the dates on the Kenda SC tires in the listing pics are:
Feb 2020 for the 27
Mar 2020 for the 25
this was right around the time when Veloflex was phasing out their old tires, and moving to the current production lines and changed names.

the size and diamond/file tread pattern on the 27 is the same as a Vlaanderen
the size and ribbed pattern on the 25 is the same as Roubaix
as far as i can tell, neither of these tread patterns are in current Veloflex production. the ProTour looks more to me like a marble texture rather than a diamond/file tread.

This is great info, thanks.

Has it ever been revealed why Veloflex redesigned the Vlaanderens? Were there actual improvements, or was it simply a manufacturing cost reduction?
The new 'marbled' tread pattern seems a bit more slick and less grippy than the file tread, but I've no experience with either.

seedsbelize2 05-09-22 07:42 AM

Tires
https://bikerecyclery.com/all-products/?omnisendContactID=5fa71c381215fa0947410111&sort=newest&utm_campaign=campaign%3A+Booster+of%3A+May+5 +2022+%28627603de4b705d002013648a%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=omnisend&page=13

https://bikerecyclery.com/all-products/?omnisendContactID=5fa71c381215fa0947410111&sort=newest&utm_campaign=campaign%3A+Booster+of%3A+May+5 +2022+%28627603de4b705d002013648a%29&utm_medium=email&utm_source=omnisend&page=14

DiabloScott 05-09-22 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize2 (Post 22500232)

What a neat site, thanks.

bamboobike4 05-17-22 10:57 AM


Originally Posted by seedsbelize2 (Post 22500232)

Pretty cool.
Some deals.
Some not.
Some flashbacks.
All in one place.

seedsbelize2 05-19-22 03:02 PM

Yeah, it's a fun site to visit.

79pmooney 05-19-22 07:58 PM

Well the process has started. (The return to an earlier era where they stuck on tires with a substance closely related to the chewing gum under the bleacher seats.)

Laced up a NOS GP4 to an old 32 hole front Campy LF I pick up somewhere. Seems to be a Tipo. No oil hole, steel, not black cones. Very used but only one pattern of spoke indents. Races in good shape. Grease was clean. Added a bunch more Phil. (Outside pulling if I keep the label viewable from the handlebars. I always go inside pulling so hub is backwards.) 2.0-1.8 Sapims. They came without nipples, a new world to me, so the wheel is laced with DT nipples, new and off a wheel I re-laced. I have plenty so ones that weren't perfect weren't used. I've never had a wheel lace and true so fast. The rim and spokes simply just wanted to be a tight true wheel and nearly pushed me out of the way. First coat of Tubasti is on. The 30c Vittoria GF2.0 is one a rim, inflated and stretching. (Merlin order. I don't get why but I could only buy one each of the good tires. Got that, two 23c Rubinos and a 21c Rally. I'll go two more orders to get more tires.)

I bought 100 302mm of these Sapims, I want 1.5-1.6 middle butts (Sapim, DT, Wheelsmith; round or bladed, but man! are they hard to find. So this wheel is 1) to get started and 2) check that 302 is really what I want before I rob a bank and kidnap a spoke exec. Spoke length is spot on perfect! Top of nipple or just under. So the bigger flanged and narrower rears will protrude just over a mm beyond the nipple. I can live with that.

I'll build my next two wheels as a set on a Miche fix-fix and Campy Chorus front. Used and glued GP4s By then I should have found the dream spokes. I'll get enough to build another front, a second fix-fix and a 126 slightly dished fix-fix, all on the rest of my NOS GP4s. (For my triple drivetrain fix gear Mooney.) Eventually my geared TiCycles will come on board. Only bikes to stay clincher will be my two winter/rain/city bikes.

This takes me back. I haven't smelled tire glue for more than 20 years. I have 10 tubes Tubasti and a tub of Conti. (That tub will last my lifetime. Tubasti is my bread and butter. All my GP4s and rims of that weight get it. Conti is for light special event wheels. (And I may figure that it is better as a non-racer to simply not corner at race speeds on 100+ degree days at 69 years of age. That post-flat rest of ride is so much easier on the worry cells riding that never-loses-its-stick Tubasti stuff. The chewing gum that stays gross.)

I wrote all this and just realized the fix gear of my avatar cannot take a GP4 rear rim. It must use deep rims to keep the rear brake on the sidewall as the wheel is slide back and forth. (2 inch dropout and I use all of it in the mountains.) I have 2 deep V rims. One will be my good/special event wheel, the other to be used with the GP4 front. Spokes to be figured out when I get there - but they cannot be harder to find than 302s!)

Classtime 05-19-22 08:52 PM

Way to go Mooney rider. I get a kick out of tubulars but my 40 mile RT commutes get clinchers--BUT not tomorrow because after reading this, tomorrow, my low flange Record GP4s get the nod.

79pmooney 05-19-22 10:11 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22513031)
Way to go Mooney rider. I get a kick out of tubulars but my 40 mile RT commutes get clinchers--BUT not tomorrow because after reading this, tomorrow, my low flange Record GP4s get the nod.

If I get back to a "half to be there on time" commute situation again and find the good, reliable commuter tubulars, they will go on my winter/rain/city bikes. (Cyclocross in the winter.) I did this for 25 years; most of which without a car. Stopped for money and marriage reasons. I could cut commute times closer because tire changes were easy, fast and certain. Changes were not harder or more uncertain in the dark, rain, snow or inebriated. (Straight tread patterns were very much affected but those crooked tires rode home just fine!)

squirtdad 05-24-22 12:19 PM

3 left FMB cobblesotne for 50 euro https://www.bike24.com/p2475768.html...fmb&source=SBP

squirtdad 06-09-22 02:57 PM

not a good buy at 240 euro a piece, but interesting Vittoria built by Dugast 25 Eroica anniversary tire

Vittoria | A. Dugast | XXV L’Eroica Tubulars – Eroica, la corsa con biciclette d'epoca

79pmooney 06-09-22 03:48 PM

So, the Mooney's tubb'd. Vitt Corsa Control G+ 28c, 300g (on my scale). Gum sidewall, the modern Vitt ribbed tread. (Varying rib widths, all thicker than BITD.) I"m riding them so far a little hard, 86/90 front/rear/. I think 5 psi less would be (for me) perfect in the dry; a little less in the wet. Tubasti'd to GP4s laced with 2.0/1.8/2,0 DTs 3X.

Impressions? Not any lighter or faster than my fastest Vitt Corsa clinchers on Open Pros but the feel! They have surplus cushioning out the ears! I keep thinking I need to baby these expensive tires and they keep saying "put us on a surface that's interesting. Not this flat stuff." Just plain fun to ride! I'm not quite at the "trust 'em with my life" point on descents; that won't happen until I pull these off, check the glue/rim interface and glue them back on to the old glue I've seen is good. They feel solid, especially the rear (second tire and benefited from the learning curve) but hard corners are going to wait. (If the front comes off hard, the rear's gonna stay on.)

I have a 28 hole hub on it's way for my avatar fix gear. It'll lace to a deep V rim and in front an Arc en Ciel like I trained so many miles on years ago. Probably start with the Rubino Pros I have a pair of. Plan is to build up a sturdier, less fancy similar pair of wheels. move the Rubinos to them and glue Corsa Speeds to the good wheels. (That should be fun!)


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