Carbon wheel quality?
 

I have a pair of Reynolds AR80 carbon wheels on my 2015 Shiv (rim brake, clincher). I like them quite a bit, however, I do notice the front 80mm deep wheel will get pushed around a bit in windy conditions. I'd like to find just a single front wheel to run on windier days so I'm looking around. The problem seems to be that it's a little more difficult to find just a single wheel. Also, because I prefer to run both 80s most of the time, I'd rather not put out a bunch of cash for a wheel that's only going to see use ~25% of the time.

I know names like Zipp, Enve, Reynolds and Mavic, but even if I can find just a single front wheel in a 30-40mm profile, I'm still looking at $400-$500 or more. Which leads me to conclude I'm going to have to look at cheaper wheel options from Asia. I personally don't have any problems with products produced over there, but I avoid Chinese as much as possible (for multiple reasons it would be best to leave unexplored).

Of course, I don't really know what manufacturers to avoid and which ones make a quality wheel and provide good service. This is where I turn to the good people of BF. I could spend hours on my internets doing various searches and reading all kinds of reviews. But I kind of figure this forum is something of a clearing house for exactly the information I'm looking for. I get that a lot of it will be personal preference, and there will be some conflicting opinions, but I expect I will trust many of your personal experiences over some random review I just pulled up in a search.

So who do you like? Who should I avoid?

If it's the wind pushing the front wheel on windy days that is your issue, then that is going to be due to the higher profile or deeper section rim more than any other thing I would think. So if that is the issue you wish to solve, you'll just need to get a single front wheel with less section height to run for windy days where gusts might bother you otherwise.

You'll get use to the aesthetic difference of the rear having a deeper section than the front after you look at it often enough. And if it's a different design model altogether, that might take a while longer to get use too.

Ya, that's pretty much exactly what I was saying. AR80 on the front is catches too much wind. Looking for a <45mm front only. But I'm considering maybe getting a full wheelset for another bike and just swapping out the front to the Shiv on windy days. As of now, the Shiv is the only bike with CF wheels. All my other bikes still use aluminum wheels.

If you haven't run the more deeper section wheels long enough to get use to the needed input from your arms often enough, then it might just be you need to bear with it for a while longer.

And if it's not a every day thing, probably few people will make snarky comments about the wheel mismatch between front and back if even if you use the alloy front with less section.

I really don't want to go with an alloy on the front for several reason. For one, that means it would necessitate a brake pad change and caliper adjustment any time I switch. Really not a huge inconvenience, but still an inconvenience. Also, I already have alloy spare wheels, so hard to justify an additional purchase. But none of them are tubeless. So then my dilemma would be to run a narrow tube wheel on the front and a wide tubeless carbon wheel on the back, swap pads and adjust calipers any time I need to change from one to the other, or buy a compromise wheel that only works with that bike that may have some of the features I want, or just find one front wheel with a shallower section that's a simple swap in and out. I would prefer the latter.

I'm really liking my new wheelset from Winspace. Yes, they are made in China, but they have a very good reputation.

I assume you're looking for rim brake, so these might fit the bill, and they're not that expensive:

Winspace: Lún Routte 45mm Rim Brake Wheelset

You might end up liking them better than your current wheels.

So another option I'm considering is just buying a used bike that already has some decent carbon wheels, swapping them out for a spare set of alloy wheels that came with my Shiv, and then selling the bike.

Here's a decent example
https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/bik/...726659106.html

Not saying this exact one (I would be too tempted to keep it) but maybe talk the seller down to $1k, swap out those wheels and then put it back on CL for $500-600. Somebody gets a solid bike for a good price and I get the wheels I want.

Tempting.

idk how much you care about the finished look, but if you are, try to find accurate photos of the one/set you're eyeing up. Some look more grey, others have a higher gloss, then you have those with massive decals that cannot be peeled off.

I understand that a budget is of concern, but if for some reason you do end up having to spend the loot... maybe you could find a source that'll offer to sell a pair of fronts if you dont have any need for a rear wheel built.

In case you didn't know, Reynolds wheels are made in Hangzhou (two hours drive west of Shanghai).

So you don't want to pay the cost of Western brands, and you also don't want to buy from China. What about Giant? They're made in Taiwan. Taiwan isn't much cheaper than Western brands though.

Actually, the one thing about my current wheels I really don't like is the black out look. In fact, I had a local sign shop copy the original decals in a reflective silver/white which I intend to apply to the wheel set to break up the giant block of blackness.

But the more I think about it, the more I think I may just buy a complete wheel set (providing I can't find just the single front wheel). The idea is I can always set up the shallow rear wheel with a bigger cassette for more hilly courses.
I did not know that about Reynolds. Very disappointing to learn, but thank you for the info. I'm a huge supporter of Taiwan businesses. I would absolutely look into Giant.

"... get pushed around a bit in windy conditions..."

It's important to understand what is happening here. It may not be just the drag from the deep-section side profile. The following is all theory in my head, not tested.

First, I assume that this is not just a felt push, but is also trying to turn the wheel away from the gust, because due to fork (rake?), more of the wheel area is forward of the steering axis. Yes?

Second, lift may be coming into play. The cross section of your deep-V rim combined with the tire makes a teardrop, which is similar to a symmetrical airfoil (think a wing cross section for aerobatic places that fly upside down, they need lift in both directions). If you have a "quartering" wind from, let's say, 2 o'clock to your travel direction, the front of your wheel will appear to that wind like an airfoil at a high "angle of attack", so may generate lift, pulling the front of the wheel to the left, in addition to the wind force pushing it to the left, but perhaps even stronger. And the faster you ride, the "wind" from the front, combines with the crosswind to shift the "apparent wind" direction more forward, to let's say 1:30. I sail.

So, ideally, you may want a lower side-view area of the rim, lower section depth, but you may also want no V-profile, or, perhaps a V-profile that is a bit less acute, less "sharp" (let's say a 50 degree included V instead of 25 degrees included V), that may be less likely to cause lift (the lifting flow around the V, the long path, curves back abruptly enough that the airflow "separates" from the rim, and you get no lift; This is like a wing moving forward and then tilting upward a bit and you get lift, then tilting upward so much that the wing stalls, lift stops). However, flow separation adds drag, due to the turbulence. Ideally I think, you want smooth, laminar flow around the v-rim when going straight, but flow separation under crosswinds, and that is technically possible because the air will need to make a much sharper turn when coming from the forward quarter, versus from straight ahead.

However a less "sharp" V may cost you more in aero drag with wind from the front. As stated above, it may be possible to thread the needle and get both. The USA racing rim manufacturers probably know answers on this. Last I looked at the subject years ago, IIRC, they were adding dimples to the rim surface, like a golf ball, for the same reason as the ball, to delay flow separation to reduce wake turbulence.

Just my thoughts.

You could very well be right in you analysis. Doesn't change the fact that the bike feels dangerously unstable at speed in a crosswind. Also keep in mind this is a tri bike, so a lot of my riding is down on the bars. When I come off the bars it still feels unsteady, but manageable. Then again, that kind of defeats the purpose of the tri bike.

I have 3 sets of BTLOS wheels that all cost under $800 per set. They've been great so far. They have many different rim profiles available. I have on 44mm deep set that can get dicey on windy mountain descents, so the other two are 29mm. I specified no spoke access holes, so I don't need rim tape.

btlos.com

I can understand people theorizing about frame/fork geometry being a factor. But anyone who has ridden a bike with deep-section aero rims---I have one TT bike with conventional geometry and moderately deep rims---knows that a gust of wind has the same effect as having someone suddenly punch your handlebars from the side. Not enjoyable.

Indeed. I actually have a couple tri bikes and run clamp on aero bars on all my road bikes, so I'm pretty familiar with the sensation of riding in the aero position. This bike, with the deep section wheels, is the only one that feels so unsteady in even moderate crosswinds.

I wasn't trying to change your mind. Clearly this is disconcerting to you, valid, and especially so if on clip-on aero-bars, where you just don't have the same leverage to correct against a stiff gust. My only intent was to say, it may not only be a factor of rim side area (same as "frontal area" drag on vehicles, but applied sideways), and reducing that area with lower section rims should help, but also the *shape* of the rim could also be a factor. Meaning, perhaps a box-section rim of the same section height might be less affected by a crosswind (when riding fast) than that aero shape, which may generate lift. These questions of drag and such, have been studied to pieces by the folks who originally design these rims (though not overseas makers that simply copy and sell that). Road-race wheel and rim makers in the US, at least well in the past, were very receptive to technical questions, as this is a premium price product and they want your business. You might pose the question of crosswind stability, versus aero drag, to one of the better US makers of premium race rims.

I would purchase a nice pair of Mavic Cosmic Carbone SSC wheels on ebay but made prior to 2008 as for Zipp , I would go for a preowned pair of 303 wheels which is the choice if you are buying aluminium and carbon wheels which are less tall 50mm. Other possibility is Bontrager or Hed rims

Windspace have a good reputation. Yoeleo also sells some. However, 500$ is not a lot for a CF wheel. You'll be restricted.

Made in China does not necessarily equal poor quality, but it often does.

I would be quite wary of buying a used bike with carbon wheels and rim brakes. As it’s local you can get a good look at it but the brake track on my Edco 45s (made in Switzerland, high quality and cost, not too bad in crosswinds) is noticeably worn after 3 years of British weather. I learned to not use carbon wheels in the winter.

I notice their 48s are less than half the price I paid for mine though. I wonder if they have offshored and/or gone hookless.
edit: ah looks like their rims were always made in Taiwan. Hubs are Swiss and final assembly in the Netherlands. Price changes came in after a bailout by a German company. Don’t know how much they cost in the US, might be out of budget but they’re great quality https://bicyclingaustralia.com.au/gear/wheel-test-we-ride-the-edco-four-8-carbon-wheelset/

lol it's like he didn't even read your original post

If you look here: https://www.huntbikewheels.cc/produc...40525205995618 you can see the blunt profile at the trailing edge where the spokes insert. This blunt trailing edge to promote flow separation is the feature that you should be looking for to minimize crosswind interference. The wheel linked is about 2x your budget and the rim itself originates in Asia somewhere, but I've been pleased with Hunt rim brake performance and all-'round goodness, so I thought it worthy of mention.

Thanks. I see the one you posted, but that's the only rim brake I can find on the site. If I just get a single wheel, I will likely hold out for a suitable used one. But I am considering a full wheel set for another bike. One that can live on the other bike most of the time, but I can swap out the front to the tri bike when wind is a concern.

Lots of great wheels from across the pond. I have a 45mm set of iCAN wheels (disc) that were $700USD for the set IIRC. I can't find anything to fault them on.

My eye/brain converted "Routte" to "Roulette", so I was going to make a joke about them being a bit of a gamble.

Here's a slightly different link with "shop," "all wheels," "Filter by:" set to Rim brake.
https://www.huntbikewheels.cc/collec...m-brake-wheels