Mystery Frame ID
 

Hoping y'all BF experts might be able to help identify this crusty frame. Photos were inserted further down in this thread, or can be viewed at s89693915.onlinehome.us/img/mystery-frame (note this is a plain http address.)

- Frame size ~ 21.5 inches; repainted?
- 26.8 seatpost (came with possibly original SR Laprade; appears to be dated "79")
- 28.6 seat tube outer diameter
- Long, windowed lugs (Bocama or Prugnat?)
- English threaded bottom bracket
- Campi rear dropouts, ~ 122 mm old
- Crimped seat stays
- Vitus fork (not original?) steerer is stamped "S.V."

This is the closest BF thread I could find on a similar frame. Miyata? Raleigh? French? Falcon? Custom?

Bonus: What is all that braze doing on top of the bottom bracket? Repair of a cracked shell? It looks like the bottom of the bb shell might be dented. Hmm...


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6a6f7450f5.jpg

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link to images generates an error message due to "security connection"

if another reader is able to view them perhaps they can glue them in to the thread...



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presently generating same error message


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:foo:

image hades

placed all images into a message and they show up fine in preview but when posted they disappear with only me text remaining

shall leave it to others to sort...


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Pic assist

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d1cf92a764.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fd7296cc5d.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...31fc21bf53.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...16b0da37bc.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b26417c88b.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2cc2fd3895.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...48ffbbe2ac.jpg

Was trying to avoid dumping them all in the post, but whatever.

pic assist (but I could not hazard a guess on this, if you didn't say it has Imperial tube OD and Brit BB threading I'd have guessed "French"):

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a85b56421c.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5e02ec1cca.jpg
cracked and re-brazed BB shell I think
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f29be5eee9.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...73c7f386b1.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...987ff437c6.jpg
BCM headlugs or..?
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f89fe052e1.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72295dac8c.jpg

DOH! double pic assist!
I type slow

Too many pics in a C&V thread?
Does not compute.:hug:

Those cutouts on the front of the head lugs looks vaguely familiar, that's all I got.

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looks like an item of Belgian produce done for a retail shop on a piece rate basis

note how thick the lugs and how simple the bridges

builder must have overheated shell giving rise to fracture which necessitated repair

remnant of black, white & blue seat tube transfer might be VITUS 172 (wylde speculation)
pillar size and likely origin are suggestive of a tubeset from Ateliers de La Rive, indents are incorrect for Reynolds

stated seat tube o.d. eliminates national origins of CH, ES & FR

slightly earlier than may appear at first glance; brake cable guides and w/b likely to be post construction additions

perhaps one of our low countries members will see a detail, or combination thereof, to advance the inquiry...

fabiofarelli JaccoW LucasHartong Italuminium non-fixie


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Is that an aluminum fork crown casting with steel fork blades?
Maybe all-aluminum, since the fork blade decal says 979 Dural.

Interesting, thanks juvela. Koga Miyata was in my list of possibilities; dunno if that fits with any of your speculations.

Pretty sure it’s all aluminum. The upper headset parts aren’t original (Shimano) so I assume it’s a replacement.

Is there a serial number anywhere on the frame? If not, I would be inclined to agree with juvela 's analysis that it is likely of Belgian origin. Campagnolo dropouts on a Miyata frame are highly unlikely.

non-fixie the serial number is on bottom bracket. It's hard to read, but looks like 9 or maybe 10 digits: 106672278.

Now you've got me pondering. Kessels or Miyata Merckx?

Vitus alu.inum fork most likely a later replacement.
Check for frontal inpact damage on the top and down tubes.

That is some number! Apart from the last two digits, which are probably the build year, it doesn't mean anything to me.

Neither, I think. Kessels bought most, if not all, of their frames from other manufacturers, Vaneenooghe being their main supplier AFIK. And it doesn't look like a Japanese frame to me either.

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had been thinking frame several years prior to '78 with top tube and w/b braze-ons as post fabrication additions

by that date the trend for long point lugs had subsided; of course lug detail could simply be a case of the maker using up what was to hand...

the same might be said for the 1010 ends set

caveat: in any apparent difference of opinion between non-fixie & me it's always best to go with his view as he is orders of magnitude of greater knowledge ;)


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No way. "Uncle" juvela has definitely got the advantage in the knowledge department. ;)

That is an interesting point you make there about the age of the frame. Allow me to show you a frame from my collection, which is of Belgian origin (or so the former mechanic of the Rob van Oel bike shop told me). The sellers told me they thought it to be from ~1980. As bought:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c5834e5036.jpg


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6ad286262b.jpg


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...552ec88967.jpg


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d8834a9978.jpg


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a12029556d.jpg


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b3c28fc8b.jpg

I'm stumped (which isn't hard to do) but interesting speculations. The bike in non-fixie's post above does have similarities. Could the decal remnant on the down tube be a first gen Dura Ace sticker? Or a "Miyata Industries"?

I'm still entertaining the notion that it was a Miyata SBDU made for Merckx himself.

Any chance you could post a pic of the serial number? The position/orientation/font/size could provide a clue for ID-ing the frame.

uh-oh!
The A-team (MauriceMoss, yes he IS a team) is on this case...it's bound to get more interesting!
:thumb:

Whatever it is, it looks pretty nice. Are you going to invest in it such as with a sandblasting and repaint? Any plans yet?

Hey Tom! I thought it might be worth saving, but it's too small for me. So I figured I'd pass it along to a more motivated maniac mechanic at some point. Maybe it's your size??? Got some extra house paint laying around? ;)

Will try to get a serial pic for Maurice tonight...

[MENTION=180800]jethin[/MENTION], my ideal size is about 56 cm, so this is probably too small for me, and I have stopped acquiring bikes. :)

Haha. You're too kind. I'm just a regular fella - I put my pants on one leg at a time :).

And now I can't get the A-Team theme song out my head...