Tired of thinking about Tires!!!
 

Recently purchased a 2020 Salsa Warbird and love the bike, its light, fast, and looks good too. Deciding on which bike to buy was a painful process with so many choices it was crazy, but not as crazy as which tire to purchase. First there's 700c or 650b, then there's lets say 35mm all the way to in my case a 700x48mm tire on a 700c rim or up to a 2.1 on a 650b rim that will fit my Warbird. Oh, and don't forget black, tan, grey, limited edition colors, light & supple, standard, durable, knobby, semi-slick, slick, did I forget something??? I mean come on!

My bike came with a set of Teravail Cannonball 42mm gravel tires that have been great, nothing complain about other than wanting to try something different. I also bought a set of Zipps new 303s wheels so I figured why not try their new Tangente G40 tires, they are 2mm narrower and 100 grams lighter so they should speed things up a bit, right? Wrong! They felt like riding through mud on the pavement but off road they felt great other than a slightly harsher ride. Now I'm thinking about going in the other direction and maxing out the volume with some Rene Herse 48mm Oracle Ridge tires that they claim are just as fast as most 42mm tires on the market. Or their 44mm Snoqualmie Pass semi slicks that are 375 grams and again they claim to have better grip on gravel than knobby and are super fast rolling like a 28mm slick. Teravail also has a 47mm light and supple Cannonball that is intriguing as well.

Sorry if none of that made any sense, just rambling on, but I want a do it all and do it all well tire that rolls fast on pavement and is comfy as can be on gravel in the 700c variety using my current 23mm internal width rims. Anyone have experience with the Rene Herse Tires and could shed some light on choosing light & supple or standard versions? Or if there's any other tires that have impressed you?

Tires are a definite paralysis by analysis situation for me. The number of options are seemingly endless and its super difficult to compare one to another due to all the marketing speak and lack of standardized testing.
Each time I buy tires, for gravel or road, I end up going down a totally unnecessary rabbit hole and eventually emerge with no real definitive info on a new tire.

I dont have experience with RH tires. Ive come close to buying them 3 times now, but continue to not want to spend $160 for tires that may not handle how I ride because they are too supple and weak. I also dont want to spend $160 on a version of their tires that has so much protection built in that most of the reason for buying RH tires is negated.
...which is why I currently have 3 bikes with Panaracer Gravel King slick or semi-slick tires. They equate to a good mix of cost and durabiliy and they are the devil versus the devil I dont.

I have the same bike as you and am still rolling stock on the Cannonballs. I would like to explore 650b at some point and made a thread about that. I figure the first thing I need to do is figure out what I don't like about the Cannonballs and 700c setup. the main thing is toe overlap so far, and I also don't feel confident on sharp gravel turns, but that may just be my own issues or PSI is a little high.

Main reason to go to 650b for me is to lessen toe overlap and run at a softer PSI. If it costs me a lot of speed though, I will not be happy. I still have a lot to learn there. I guess my advice is to really learn the Cannonball tires first as that will tell us a lot about the bike in general and what could be better.

I also recently spent way too much time going down the gravel tire rabbit hole. My take-away is you want the fastest non-slick tire for all-around riding. Slicks will be fine in many conditions but can be really bad in a few conditions, mainly mud and larger gravel on turns. I still remember painful mud wipe-outs on slicks so no thanks there for me. If you go to bicyclerollingresistence.com for example you will see Terra Speed does about the best in that category (removing the slicks from their best-of list). I think Gravelking SS will also be good, they are going to release the data on it any day now. Gravelking SK and Specialized Pathfinder Pro are other fast non-slicks. If the Conti Terra Speed lasted longer I think it would really take over the segment like their GP5000 did for road tires. Personally I am running Terra Speeds now, I have another set of wheels for road where most of my miles are so hopefully the gravel tires will last awhile.

I hear ya! I don't even need new tires for a good while and am always thinking about what to choose next. I was thinking the Cannonballs but then I read about this great tire and that wonderful tire, supple this supple that, rolling resistance, blah blah blah.

Currently using 650x47 WTB Byways and I like em enough. They were a breeze to set up tubeless on my wheels and I can't tell if they are sluggish on pavement, or maybe I'm trying not to worry too much because, you know, that's when it all starts down the 'ol rabbit hole.

I see I'm not the only one with this problem, thanks for the input so far. To comment on a few of your replies, I'm pretty sure I don't want to size down to a 650b wheelset. I ride a 61cm frame with a size 15 foot and have no problem with toe overlap whatsoever. That and the Warbird will clear a 700x47-48mm tire no problem if I want to pump up the volume!

I'm also hesitant to try the Rene Herse tires not only for price but I'm afraid they'll be too fragile unless I get the extra protection version which kind of negates the benefits of their products being light and supple.

The 47mm Teravail Cannonball is topping my list right now based on the performance of the heavier 42mm that came on my bike. Lighter, more volume, and a tan sidewall to boot! Not to mention almost half the price of a similar Rene Herse.

I've also had great luck with Schwalbe tires on road and mtb, never a flat and they roll extremely well. Maybe a 45mm offering from them could work too?

With that bike and your size, the only way I’d go to to a 650b is if you ride lots of tough single track. 700c has an advantage in rollover and rolling resistance. As far as tire width choices, I’ll throw some opinion out there...

1. Larger volume tires can really help the rider if they are big/heavy and/or they are frequently riding on soft or loose surfaces...or really rough stuff like large crushed rock, large diameter gravel. They also cost you in wind, weight and rolling resistance if you plan to go faster or be competitive.

2. Smaller volume tires are faster and less forgiving.

3. What is a larger volume tire? Pretty subjective. If you weigh 140 lbs, a 38 or 40mm tire can be all you would ever need in tough conditions and a 35mm on race day. If you weigh 240, a 45mm tire or larger is pretty forgiving.

I think the 700c 45mm is the ideal tire for our conditions and my size (240) but I usually swap it out for a 38mm when it’s gravel race day.

Oh, and this is tubeless only we’re talking about here...

Real interesting stuff.

I'm 5'8 and 180 so that's why I am considering 650b. Once OP posted his size, it makes total sense to stay at 700.

Personally torn on good speed versus comfort. I ride gravel, some single track and also paved, so my Warbird is a true all rounder. Anyway, don't mean to hijack just find this topic real interesting since I have the same bike. Currently riding 700c 42s and not racing.

We should take a break from thinking about tires and think about chain lube instead.

This has me wondering if coating my tires in chain lube will result in less rolling resistance

Only if you are using disc brakes.

I get Specialized Trigger Pros or Pathfinder Pros and call it a day.

I know this is common wisdom, but Ted King, Lael Wilcox and Jan Heine all three agree that quality 650b tires are as fast as any 700C. And they try LOTS of tires... They mostly ride 650B now if you check out Teds Podcast with them a few weeks ago. They all love Rene Herse.

At our shop we ride everything but have come down to these favorites that we regularly stock for fast and great ride quality:

Panaracer Gravel Kings - good all around and reasonable price
Vittoria Terreno Zero or Dry - Near Excellent
Rene Herse (38-48mm) - Excellent
Schwalbe G-One - Excellent
Challenge Strada Bianca - Nice slick and rides like Rene Herse but a bit less expensive

And for more tread when you expect mud, deep sand:
Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
Vittoria Terreno Wet


The Bruce Gordons are new for us but they have deep, aggressive tread that is soft and grippy. We want to see if we can climb up the store window with them like a spider. Great if it is sloppy or if you ave no idea what you are in for that day.

Any of the above you can use and they all are at least really good. Some of the other stuff out there is more marketing than performance.

Start with the widest you can fit and when you are comfy with that try sizing down and see if you still like it...

Please don't worry about hijacking the thread, I appreciate your input.

Funny story, just yesterday I ran out of chain lube so I looked around the house and found Olive Oil spray. Worked great and less calories!:lol:

I have been a loyal Schwalbe user for about 8 years now both on and off road so the G-One's are on my short list. As far as the Rene Herse tires go, they say that the Light and Supple is something to experience and I'd love to give the 700x48 Oracle Ridge tires a try but wonder how well they'll hold up? Have you compared their Light and Supple casing to the Standard casings?

Specialized Pathfinder Pros for me, 38mm, they measure out to 40mm on 23c rims. Fantastic on the road, gravel, sand, light mud. I doubt I'll even try another tire now.

That one is on my list for a future purchase. I can fit the 42, and would run them tubeless.

I agree with the OP's thread title, we all suffer from this at some point :lol:

It's great tire.

Ooh and the 650b comes in tanwall

I ride both standard and extra lights, have not yet tried endurance. I have mot had a flat in years and I ride average of 60 - 70% gravel overall. They are reasonably durable, but not as durable as gravel kings or G-Ones, but the ride is worth it. I would NOT recommend for commuting where you get a lot of broken glass or radial tire wires on the shoulder, or in DK with all of the sharp flint. Riding in places like that warrants a more armored casing. Our gravel in PA is well tumbled with no glass or tire wires or goatheads or many sharp rocks to worry about. Here RH tires are really ideal!

My tire search ended right there. No tire is “do it all and do it all well,” but GK SKs get me close. I run 35s on one bike and 43s on another. They’re reasonably fast, reasonably light, and super versatile. Done.

I just get Gravelking SK and let other people worry about how much faster or slower they might be than other tires.

I have seen people have not good experience with some Terravails tubeless.

I’ve tried the gravel kings in multiple sizes and just can’t get into them. I know lots of people love them but just not for me. I love my wtb resolutes size 42 for yucky conditions but they never feel faster. My pathfinder pros feel fast to me. I haven’t ridden them in yucky conditions yes though.

I ride Herse in 650b and 700c and find them awesome for gravel, pavement, and comfort.

The 650bx48 Switchback Hill are standard casing and set up tubeless. The ride is crazy plush, like spoil-you-for-everything-else plush, and seem fast, too, but I have them on the Breezer Doppler which is a heavy, luxo-cruiser, so it’s hard to tell if it’s the rubber, the lack of aero, or the weight keeping the speeds down. For Endurance level riding, though, this rig with these tires is the dream, and it just begs to hit those dirt backroads and go explore the world. The RHs replaced venerable 650bx47 WTB Horizon, shaving weight and really making the ride more airy and lively.

The 700x37 Herse Bon Jon Pass Extralight casing are set up tubeless on my racy gravel rig, the T-Lab X3. Just recently completed, the first time out on it I set several PRs on gravel segments I’ve not bested since 2014. I’ve not had any other rubber on this bike so I can’t parse how much is bike versus how much is the rubber making the magic happen, but the ride on dirt was sublime. It didn’t seem too shabby on pavement either, but I’ve done lots of group rides on the pavement around here, so it’s hard to set PRs rollin’ solo, but I’ll tell you that my gravel group for a few years was some of the fastest guys around, and they still hold down many top 10 Strava segments several years on, so I’m inclined to think the Bon Jon Extralights are just made of pure magic. Really… I wasn’t even going for any segments— besides being a first ride to learn the bike, I’m also about 20lbs heavier than I was in ‘14 and training to an FTP 25w lower as well, so I thought PRs were well out of reach— but apparently the bike/tire combo was a huge step up from my 30c or 28c shod Kinesis Racelight 4S road bike on dirt roads.

I ride gravel roads— not trails, not tracks— which, around here, are mostly hardpack but can have loose rock and crushed limestone on the surface, too. Grading happens pretty regularly, too, which turns the surface into an inch-deep churn of limestones, sand, loess, and clay, so you can get a variety of conditions, but mostly hardpack, so speed is king and having tire volume to smooth the potholes, washboard, and other rough stuff is paramount to making speed because traction is a given and rarely a concern.