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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Scipunk 10-07-17 09:24 PM


Originally Posted by 3alarmer (Post 19915052)
.
...if you are not gonna use it very often, a cheap drill press vise with a socket for the negative space works too. Because it's smaller and more maneuverable, you can take it over to the bike, rather than wrestle the bike up onto the bench vise. I think they cost a little less than 20 bucks.

If you use one a lot, the screw handle usually gives out.

Not a bad plan, ill look into it. Once I'm back working ill probably get one from bikesmith


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 19915132)
All the Raleigh 3-speed bottom brackets I have worked on have used 1/4" balls.

Thanks, ill pick some up :)


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 19915137)
The "R" is just a little disc pressed into the hole in the nut. I haven't tried it myself, but you may be able to push the "R" disc out of the Raleigh nut and press it into the replacement nut.

Also good to know, i should be able to as i would with miniatures and models and such so i have a semi delicate touch.

BigChief 10-08-17 05:00 AM

Mark has been a real asset to us 3 speed lovers. It's true that with a fine file, bench vice and a lot of patience you can get the cheap cotters to fit and have a nice 180 degree spread of the crank arms. But the Bikesmith cotters are accurately cut on a surface grinder and better quality cotters to start with. Same goes for his cotter press. I used to use a smaller, clamp on bench vice and a socket. It was awkward and you don't want awkward when you're trying to remove cotters. Marks press is easy to use and has a bolt that you can put a hefty wrench on. He also sells a tool for removing bottom bracket fixed cups. I hardly ever need it, but it is by far the best method.

gster 10-08-17 07:56 AM

Fulcrum Stop Locater
 
1 Attachment(s)
Using my unmolested '72 Superbe as a reference, I place the stop 3 fingers from the top lug...
Attachment 583779

3speedslow 10-08-17 10:42 AM

3 Attachment(s)
No luck with my stock of pins, none were close. Tried to file the old pin flat where the ridges were. Once inserted to pressure, the arms were not at 180.

Piece of pie to get the old pin out with the socket and clamp method.

BigChief 10-08-17 11:13 AM

Filing cotters IS a total PITA. Sometimes you get lucky and get them to work quickly and other times you file away a half dozen before you get two to work. There's just no way to be as accurate as a fixture in a surface grinder by hand. Dumb luck comes into play.
edit:
I have to add that sometimes the crank arms aren't totally accurate either. I have had some cranks where two NOS Raleigh cotters needed some adjusting with a file to work. Rare, but it happened to me twice that I remember. But the days of me buying bags of cheap cotters and filing them are over. I just got 6 from Mark. Used up my NOS supply years ago.

dweenk 10-08-17 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19915887)
No luck with my stock of pins, none were close. Tried to file the old pin flat where the ridges were. Once inserted to pressure, the arms were not at 180.

Piece of pie to get the old pin out with the socket and clamp method.

That looks like it may have been an undersized cotter. Does it measure 9.5mm?

3alarmer 10-08-17 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19915887)
No luck with my stock of pins, none were close. Tried to file the old pin flat where the ridges were. Once inserted to pressure, the arms were not at 180.

Piece of pie to get the old pin out with the socket and clamp method.

...you should (in theory) be able to fix that by filing the other pin to match. That's what I would do.

SirMike1983 10-08-17 12:27 PM

If you have a pair of non-matching pins, I suggest replacing them with the "Grade A" pins that Bike Smith Design sells. Specify you want the Raleigh profile on the pins. I do file and fit pins for some projects still, but only when I have a pair of relatively good, relatively close-matching pins and the project will not take a standard Raleigh profile. If I have a standard, post-war Raleigh in need of a good set of pins, I buy from Bike Smith.

3speedslow 10-08-17 12:42 PM

Thanks all! I tried it, but expected to fail. Nothing ventured nothing gained. The pin I tried was the one that came out of the crank in the first place. Yes, I did measure it.

I will go tomorrow to the LBS and look through his well stocked pin drawer. Sad now, no scorcher run today...

Scipunk 10-08-17 02:21 PM

Pulled the front wheels today and got the hub apart, not a whole lot there is there...lol

20 bearing all accounted for, and nearly dry as a bone... so i tossed them into my mag parts holder and ill get to cleaning the hub etc tonight. Is it really as simple as put some grease in the races, place 10 BB's each side and then screw it together? I assume i need to make sure the axle is even on both sides and there is free spinning but /tiny to no play?

BigChief 10-08-17 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19916342)
Pulled the front wheels today and got the hub apart, not a whole lot there is there...lol

20 bearing all accounted for, and nearly dry as a bone... so i tossed them into my mag parts holder and ill get to cleaning the hub etc tonight. Is it really as simple as put some grease in the races, place 10 BB's each side and then screw it together? I assume i need to make sure the axle is even on both sides and there is free spinning but /tiny to no play?

No need to even out this axle. One side has a shoulder. Just screw the fixed cone all the way down on it. You only have one adjustable cone. Another reminder. You will kick yourself if you forget and score up the races. Mount the wheel with the fixed cone on the right.

SirMike1983 10-08-17 04:50 PM

1941 Schwinn New World 3-speed:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-RqFP-GDeT...008_154633.jpg

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-WkNWYfpzw...008_154733.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Sl8x4mOLy...007_171229.jpg

arty dave 10-08-17 05:46 PM

I started re-building the DL-1 on the w/e. Firstly with fitting the cranks onto the bare frame so it wasn't so much weight to hold while pressing the cotters using the bench vice. Cleaned and reassembled the AB hub and gave it a new 22 tooth cog. I cleaned the original cog to put away, and this is when I really noticed that it's thicker than the usual 1/8". Checked the chainring, same thing: why hadn't my brain registered the thickness before now!! I have a 1/8" nickel plated chain I'd bought on sale, checked it for fit and of course it doesn't fit. Every time I work on this machine I find another problem to solve :) I cleaned the original chain to test the fit - I wasn't sure what to expect - under all the dirt and grime it looks brand new and has no chain stretch whatsoever. It's stamped 'Made in England' and 'The Coventry'. But it's too short with the new 22T cog by about 1 and 1/2 links. So I have a 3/16" drivechain, something I didn't know existed until now...it seems to have been used on 'butchers bikes', delivery/utility bikes back in the day, and apparently now favoured by some bmx riders as a tougher, longer lasting drivechain.

I'm having trouble sourcing a chain here in Oz, they're easier to find in the US or UK but with postage I'm looking at $45. I'll keep scouring maybe some local bmx specialty sites might sell these chains. Or it might be cheaper for me to buy a 1/8" Raleigh chainring. Do all DL-1's have 3/16" drivetrains? I'd love to extend 'The Coventry' chain I have as it's a piece of the bikes history. But I'd need to find a single link or 2 and another joiner to make it long enough.

BigChief 10-08-17 06:49 PM

I've never seen this on a DL-1 before, but KMC makes 1/2 x 3/16 chain. I'm surprised to hear that it's hard to find there.

arty dave 10-08-17 08:59 PM

Big Chief I probably need to look a bit harder. I can easily find shorter chain (98/100), but I need at least 110. I guess the bmx'ers only need short chain. Maybe I can order one through a bike shop.

BigChief 10-08-17 11:05 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19917050)
Big Chief I probably need to look a bit harder. I can easily find shorter chain (98/100), but I need at least 110. I guess the bmx'ers only need short chain. Maybe I can order one through a bike shop.

I see, you're right. They're not 112 links like the 1/8" chains. My DL-1 has a 46T chainwheel and a 22T cog and uses all 112 1/8" links. I've always had to shorten chains, not lengthen them. I have heard that you're not supposed to reuse a chain pin that has been pressed out, but I have no experience here. More stuff I don't know. Well, it gives me something to research on my lunch break. Rain here tomorrow so no ride.

BigChief 10-09-17 10:41 AM

Well, all of what I found is pretty much the same as this:
https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...-chain-breaker

This one has pictures, so I'll link it. I did notice that he didn't push the pin all the way out. Just enough to open the chain. So, it looks like you'll have to spring for a new 1/2 x 3/16 chain and steal what links you need to extend the old chain.
edit:
I don't think you will have any problem using the 3/16 chain with the 1/8" cog. I see plenty of 3 speeds here using the 24T 3/32" cogs with 1/8" chains.

3alarmer 10-09-17 10:58 AM

...the 3/16th width chains I have seen are not very sophisticated, and do not have either peined pins or any sort of chain pin that requires a disposable pin for joining, like the Shimano chains. IOW, they were old school chains that you could break and rejoin using a chain breaker tool.

If you opt for this, by inspection simply assure yourself that the chain link pins are flat and smooth on the ends where they go through the link face plates and can be pushed in and out without risk of enlarging the hole in the plate. Do not attempt to extend one manufacturer's chain by adding links from another maker. Instead, just buy two of the cheap BMX chains and put together whatever length you require.

It's actually a pretty simple job, and if you can find someone who has done it before, it's easy to show you. Takes all of five minutes.

squirtdad 10-09-17 11:00 AM

there is really something great about the simple utility and elegance of that bike and 3 speed in general....

3speedslow 10-09-17 12:14 PM

Got two pins from the LBS I haunt, see how they do. Matching to the old pin almost perfect. It's blowing rain on my work area, drat !

Also dug up a an old axle spacer for the Raleigh hub I will SS for the scorcher. Now the OLD matches the Sport's spacing.

johnnyspaghetti 10-09-17 05:33 PM

4 Attachment(s)
I bought this 3 speed Schwinn Transit model w/ nexus hub. Maybe an early 2000's bike. Its big enough, fits well. and has this motor front hub. It has shoddy/hack installation work on the electrics & the batteries draw down quickly being 7 yrs old. The thing really gets moving along quickly, way more than I need or want. I have been curious. The guy took $150

Attachment 583966

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thumpism 10-09-17 06:18 PM

Cool. We'll all probably be doing this eventually.

Scipunk 10-09-17 07:51 PM

So i got a couple pics for ya
First is it looks like someone tried to use a hammer and chisel to undo the lock ring in the past...

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4493/...207f15e9_b.jpgUntitled by David Ashe, on Flickr

Other than the lock ring tool is there any other safe way to unscrew this? I don't want to damage it anymore than the previous "mechanic" did

Also I'm a bit rusty on chains but this one is a master link type?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4465/...5c2c90af_b.jpgUntitled by David Ashe, on Flickr

if so how does one remove it? I am replacing the chain but i wanna keep the original stuff

PilotFishBob 10-09-17 08:08 PM

I use a Park lock ring tool for lock rings, not sure what to use for a generic alternative. On the master link I just use a beefy set of needle-nose pliers to pop the U-plate. Getting it back on is a PITA though...

BigChief 10-09-17 09:03 PM

The official park tool spanners are HCW 5 and HCW 11 but a punch for the lock ring is fine. You might be able to unscrew the adjustable cup by hand. If it's too stiff to unscrew by hand, grab onto that raised part with pliers for leverage. The threads are fine and delicate, so you don't want to use any tool to hold the outside diameter. It shouldn't be very tight. The fixed cup on the other side is another story. It's a LH thread and a real bear to remove, so don't. Just reach in with a rag and a stick to clean it out.
For those clips on master links, I use a screwdriver to push it forward before I lift it off with needle nose pliers.


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