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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

jman0war 07-03-15 06:00 PM

Raleigh Sports - Fenders and Saddle
 
4 Attachment(s)
Can anybody offer any suggestions for a couple things?

Firstly, i'm working on restoring a couple fenders PalmettoUpstate was kind enough to offer.
I find that one of the stays on the rear fender is quite bent.
The mounting holes line up with the rest so i'm partially tempted to just leave the stay as it is.
But I had a quick go at straightening it.
I put a board down and drove a couple nails around the stay, then used a small hammer to try and pound the first bend.
But I didn't really make much progress and I'm concerned about damaging the weld area.

I put a piece of wood between the hammer and stay so i wasn't pounding directly onto the metal.
Maybe i need to shore this up better with bigger pieces..
I'm thinking maybe i should use heat, like a blow torch and heat the stay?
Anyway, maybe this is unnecessary and I should leave it bent.
What are your thoughts?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462274http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462273

Secondly, the Saddle.
It was in good condition, but quite dried out.
I put 2 pretty thick coats of Dubbin and left it for a couple weeks now.
The leather was still greasy today so i left it outside in the sun, hoping the Dubbin would heat up a little and absorb more into the leather.
But the leather is still quite stiff.
The Dubbin has a parafin wax smell, and is beeswax in appearance.
I sorta wish i had used Brooks Proofhide instead tbh.
Here are some pics i took today.
Leather looks quite scaly.
Not sure if I'll manage to get this very supple.
Might be a right-off.
What do you think?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462275http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462276

JohnDThompson 07-03-15 07:43 PM

I suspect the "Dubbin" product is based on beeswax and shouldn't be a problem. The crazing you see looks to be superficial and should affect performance or longevity. I have a 1967 Brooks saddle with similar superficial crazing that has held up fine.

Don_in_VA 07-04-15 10:06 AM

How to flush the rear hub
 
This week I picked up an AMC Hercules bike of Craigslist in what appeared to be very good condition. The AW hub say 79 on it and I'm guessing that's when the bike was made. I had been looking for a Robin Hood from the mid to early 60's (and am still looking) as that was my first real bike as a kid. It was stolen and my folks bought me a Hercules, which I never liked quite as well. This was mostly a nostalgia purchase but I do intend to ride it locally and I have been doing so.

Cosmetically the bike was in very good (not pristine) condition but only 2 gears worked (2 and 3). Having read a bit about the SA AW hub I figured I could get it working again and I did. I lubed it with 3 in 1 oil and adjusted the tension on the hub according some directions I found on the source of all knowledge - YouTube. First and second gears worked but 3rd was free spinning - before I had 3rd gear and 2nd gear in the 1 and 2 positions. With a bit more adjusting I got all three gears working nicely.

I've been reading through the discussion here (and it will take me weeks to digest all of the great information!) and I see where 3 in 1 isn't recommended (gets gummy). Some folks have mentioned but never explained how to flush the hub. So, I'm looking for some advice on this. I suppose I could take the hub apart and reassemble it but it seems unnecessary at this point.

And as others have said, this is a great thread. I'm learning a lot.

Don

look566 rider 07-04-15 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by jman0war (Post 17949142)
Can anybody offer any suggestions for a couple things?

Firstly, i'm working on restoring a couple fenders PalmettoUpstate was kind enough to offer.
I find that one of the stays on the rear fender is quite bent.
The mounting holes line up with the rest so i'm partially tempted to just leave the stay as it is.
But I had a quick go at straightening it.
I put a board down and drove a couple nails around the stay, then used a small hammer to try and pound the first bend.
But I didn't really make much progress and I'm concerned about damaging the weld area.

I put a piece of wood between the hammer and stay so i wasn't pounding directly onto the metal.
Maybe i need to shore this up better with bigger pieces..
I'm thinking maybe i should use heat, like a blow torch and heat the stay?
Anyway, maybe this is unnecessary and I should leave it bent.
What are your thoughts?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462274http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462273

Secondly, the Saddle.
It was in good condition, but quite dried out.
I put 2 pretty thick coats of Dubbin and left it for a couple weeks now.
The leather was still greasy today so i left it outside in the sun, hoping the Dubbin would heat up a little and absorb more into the leather.
But the leather is still quite stiff.
The Dubbin has a parafin wax smell, and is beeswax in appearance.
I sorta wish i had used Brooks Proofhide instead tbh.
Here are some pics i took today.
Leather looks quite scaly.
Not sure if I'll manage to get this very supple.
Might be a right-off.
What do you think?
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462275http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462276

For the fender stays, I used regular old pliers to straighten the stays on my Rudge as well as just using my hands. Tried the hammer bit myself and did not have much success. I did not worry about marking the metal, which did not really happen anyway.

arex 07-04-15 03:10 PM

You might be able to modify a small brass punch to beat it out with...gently, of course.

Sixty Fiver 07-04-15 05:22 PM


Originally Posted by Don_in_VA (Post 17950451)
I've been reading through the discussion here (and it will take me weeks to digest all of the great information!) and I see where 3 in 1 isn't recommended (gets gummy). Some folks have mentioned but never explained how to flush the hub. So, I'm looking for some advice on this. I suppose I could take the hub apart and reassemble it but it seems unnecessary at this point.

And as others have said, this is a great thread. I'm learning a lot.

Don

Most times all you have to do is feed the hub a few tsp of motor oil and go for a ride... :D

markk900 07-04-15 07:35 PM

@Sixty Fiver is right, but if you do want to flush try a few tablespoons of WD40, ride around, and when you get a mess over everything add the couple of teaspoons of motor oil. You will get another mess but likely any residual stickiness will be gone.

Sixty Fiver 07-04-15 10:19 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 17951648)
@Sixty Fiver is right, but if you do want to flush try a few tablespoons of WD40, ride around, and when you get a mess over everything add the couple of teaspoons of motor oil. You will get another mess but likely any residual stickiness will be gone.

If you flush with WD40, and this is only for extreme circumstances, one should lay the bike down on the drive side and put a rag under the cog to catch the runoff.

BigChief 07-05-15 07:11 AM

My wife is a professional equestrian. According to her, you wouldn't want to use a product with wax. It should be a conditioner only. Wax is used as a sealant to protect, but will actually work against you when you are trying to rehydrate leather. I have used her Effax Leather Balsam with good results on my old Brooks saddle.

Velocivixen 07-05-15 09:19 AM

Built up front wheel for the Raleigh Twenty using a NOS Raleigh (Sturmey Archer) front hub. Velocity AeroHeat 28h ISO 451 rim, 14 gauge spokes, brass nipples & Velox rim tape. Ordered Primo Comet's in 20" x 1 3/8" with tubes that will arrive in a few days.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/445/18...7807381c_z.jpgVelocity AeroHeat by velocivixen, on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/496/19...1d331c5c_z.jpgNOS Sturmey Archer (Raleigh) front hub by velocivixen, on Flickr

The original "1080 type" very long reach brake calipers are not going to work on these rims. I've got other side pulls but they're for recessed allen head fittings. I'm considering Tektro 800A calipers and am wondering if, on the rear I can swap the barrel adjuster arm & the pinch bolt so that the brake cable can enter the caliper from the bottom heading up. I don't want to have to make a funny/sharp bend routing the rear brake to enter caliper from the top going down?

Also the kickstand needs service and I've found great posts on how to remove the Schwinn built in kickstand, but the Raleigh Twenty is different. Any ideas about getting the pin out? Just tap it out?

arex 07-05-15 11:00 AM

Cool stuff. What are your ultimate goals for your Twenty? Are you just updating stuff, or are you really gonna pimp it out?

arex 07-05-15 11:13 AM

I have a dumb question about gear-inches, which I've never had to consider before. On the Sports that I'm building (very nearly finished, btw, just have to tape the handlebars), I've kind of eyeballed the size of the chainring and rear sprocket, in addition to the change of 700C wheels. I used Sheldon's calculator for gear-inches and came up with the following:

http://i.imgur.com/CYhEYwN.png

The top set of numbers is what I currently have...the bottom set is using a 50T ring that I have on-hand. Looking at these numbers, I came to realize that these numbers are totally abstract to me, that I have no idea how these numbers translate into real-world experience and feel.

Essentially, are these numbers pretty good for riding at a snappy pace in the highest gear (as opposed to either just cruising along or all-out sprinting), or is the gearing on the 46T of numbers too low?

noglider 07-05-15 11:49 AM

@arex, 72" is about the most moderate gear for riding on flat terrain. Not high, not low. 79" is a little high, so it would be good if you want to go fairly hard. Calculate the gear inches of your road bike, if you have one, and try out the different gears to learn what a 60", 70", and 80" gear feel like.

@Velocivixen, good work on the front wheel. I look forward to seeing it with 451 wheels and everything else. I don't know if you can remove the cable stop and pinch bolt from those brakes, but if you can, you should. As I remember, it wasn't possible on your Philips.

Sixty Fiver 07-05-15 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17952590)
Built up front wheel for the Raleigh Twenty using a NOS Raleigh (Sturmey Archer) front hub. Velocity AeroHeat 28h ISO 451 rim, 14 gauge spokes, brass nipples & Velox rim tape. Ordered Primo Comet's in 20" x 1 3/8" with tubes that will arrive in a few days.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/445/18...7807381c_z.jpgVelocity AeroHeat by velocivixen, on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/496/19...1d331c5c_z.jpgNOS Sturmey Archer (Raleigh) front hub by velocivixen, on Flickr

The original "1080 type" very long reach brake calipers are not going to work on these rims. I've got other side pulls but they're for recessed allen head fittings. I'm considering Tektro 800A calipers and am wondering if, on the rear I can swap the barrel adjuster arm & the pinch bolt so that the brake cable can enter the caliper from the bottom heading up. I don't want to have to make a funny/sharp bend routing the rear brake to enter caliper from the top going down?

Also the kickstand needs service and I've found great posts on how to remove the Schwinn built in kickstand, but the Raleigh Twenty is different. Any ideas about getting the pin out? Just tap it out?

Like I said, if you want to relocate and give up your lucrative day job... :D

I need to build the new wheels for my daughter's 451 model... have a few sets of nice rims for this.

My oldest daughter has a Raleigh Saffron... I have a Nexus 7 speed hub for her new wheels.

Velocivixen 07-05-15 01:42 PM

@arex - those kinds of measurements are sort of abstract for me too, so here's what I do. I look at the gears I typically ride in mostly (from another bike), then plug in the chain ring size & cog sizes to get an idea of what kind of gear inches work well for my style of riding (try to get a high & low range). That way I can know what I'm shooting for, and at that point I can start plugging in chainring sizes & cog teeth to see what will give me my preferred gearing.
@noglider - that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid....that ugly cable routing that I ended up doing on the phillips. Until I find something I could certainly use the original Phillips brakes on this Twenty. OR I could simply return the original Phillips brakes to it's original place, leaving me with Tektro R559 to put, albeit temporarily, on the Twenty. That might be the best to do. Then at least one of them would have pretty cable routing. As an aside, I took your advice on my Miyata mixte drop bar project and rerouted the rear brake cable under the top tube, down the middle (if you recall I had a zip tie holding it). Looks better. Thanks.
@Sixty Fiver - I'm not sure I've seen your daughter's Raleigh Saffron. Have you posted it before? If not, would really like to see some photos.

Can you tell me if it's possible to "tighten up" the kickstand on my Twenty? I see the pin at the end. I've sprayed WD40 in there and cleaned the best I can from the outside. When I put the kickstand up it seems sort of loose. Thanks in advance.

Slash5 07-05-15 03:04 PM

One of the vendors at the bike show today had this.

http://i.imgur.com/hqNgxsq.jpg

browngw 07-05-15 03:08 PM

9 Attachment(s)
A new English 3 speed now lives in my garage! A 1971, well kept "Robin Hood" Sports Model in 23" frame with 26X1 3/8 tires. Purchased it today at the Canadian Vintage Bicycle Show in Brantford ON. It set me back $165 but my bike fund was high and I just had to have it. This is the type of bike I wanted as a kid. Made by Raleigh Industries but a few "quid" cheaper.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462600http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462607http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462608http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462601http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462602http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462603http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462604http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462605http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462606

browngw 07-05-15 03:11 PM


Originally Posted by Slash5 (Post 17953296)
One of the vendors at the bike show today had this.

http://i.imgur.com/hqNgxsq.jpg

I saw that. Glad you thought to take a picture and share it with us.

Slash5 07-05-15 05:01 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 17953304)
A new English 3 speed now lives in my garage! A 1971, well kept "Robin Hood" Sports Model in 23" frame with 26X1 3/8 tires. Purchased it today at the Canadian Vintage Bicycle Show in Brantford ON. It set me back $165 but my bike fund was high and I just had to have it. This is the type of bike I wanted as a kid. Made by Raleigh Industries but a few "quid" cheaper.

I wanted that Robin Hood badly but it was just too small for me. Those sure are tiny handlebars and no stem length I figured I'd never get it to work - even so, I offered $150 but he wouldn't take it.

michael k 07-05-15 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17952590)

The original "1080 type" very long reach brake calipers are not going to work on these rims. I've got other side pulls but they're for recessed allen head fittings. I'm considering Tektro 800A calipers and am wondering if, on the rear I can swap the barrel adjuster arm & the pinch bolt so that the brake cable can enter the caliper from the bottom heading up. I don't want to have to make a funny/sharp bend routing the rear brake to enter caliper from the top going down.

V.V.
I switch them on my daughters bike.( Tektro 800a) If remember correctly we had to ever so slightly enlarge the opening for the cable anchor bolt to fit.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...smr5cjk1b.jpeg

browngw 07-05-15 05:27 PM


Originally Posted by Slash5 (Post 17953578)
I wanted that Robin Hood badly but it was just too small for me. Those sure are tiny handlebars and no stem length I figured I'd never get it to work - even so, I offered $150 but he wouldn't take it.

Things were winding down when I bought it and people were starting to pack up. Just after I bought it, someone bought my rebuilt white 76 Raleigh Mixte for $200. I was going to leave earlier but am glad I didn't.
The stem and bars may require some work for fit, but I want to retain the original character.

3speedslow 07-05-15 06:34 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 17953618)
Things were winding down when I bought it and people were starting to pack up. Just after I bought it, someone bought my rebuilt white 76 Raleigh Mixte for $200. I was going to leave earlier but am glad I didn't.
The stem and bars may require some work for fit, but I want to retain the original character.

browngw,

That Robin Hood is quite the eye catcher ! Fantastic that you found one in 23". As for the stem, you could go with an old GB one, would look stunning and functional.

What wrapping is on the handle bars ? I have an old 60 Raleigh Gran Sport in that copper Colour but need to replace the tape. Is that one fresh wrap ?

Ride report when you can.

Velocivixen 07-05-15 08:35 PM

@michael k - fantastic. I'm going to wait until I build the rear wheel and have a chance to install it on the bike to measure the brake arm reach, as you know sometimes the front & rear are not the same.

arex 07-06-15 12:07 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17952945)
@arex, 72" is about the most moderate gear for riding on flat terrain. Not high, not low. 79" is a little high, so it would be good if you want to go fairly hard. Calculate the gear inches of your road bike, if you have one, and try out the different gears to learn what a 60", 70", and 80" gear feel like.

I'll try that, as soon as it stops raining. I'm hoping it'll be dry enough in the morning that I can take the Sports out to shake it out and see how it does.

markk900 07-06-15 04:58 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 17953304)
A new English 3 speed now lives in my garage! A 1971, well kept "Robin Hood" Sports Model in 23" frame with 26X1 3/8 tires. Purchased it today at the Canadian Vintage Bicycle Show in Brantford ON. It set me back $165 but my bike fund was high and I just had to have it. This is the type of bike I wanted as a kid. Made by Raleigh Industries but a few "quid" cheaper.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462600http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462607http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462608http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462601http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462602http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462603http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462604http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462605http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=462606

Wow - what a stunner - sorry I missed the show but had family obligations......

What tires are those on the bike? Always looking for period style tires and those look new.

BigChief 07-06-15 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 17953304)
A new English 3 speed now lives in my garage! A 1971, well kept "Robin Hood" Sports Model in 23" frame with 26X1 3/8 tires. Purchased it today at the Canadian Vintage Bicycle Show in Brantford ON. It set me back $165 but my bike fund was high and I just had to have it. This is the type of bike I wanted as a kid. Made by Raleigh Industries but a few "quid" cheaper.

Beautiful bike! And a lesson learned for me. I would have suspected the fenders weren't original because of the shape and wire stays. The Robin Hood decal proves they are and Raleigh did not always use their standard fenders during this time. I wouldn't have passed this one up either.

thumpism 07-06-15 07:27 AM

How about a nice old German three-speed?

1951 Bicycle - Vintage German Bike - Women's
http://images.craigslist.org/00d0d_f...YI_600x450.jpg
1951 Bicycle - Vintage German Bike - Women's - $150
(Richmond, Va - The Fan)
Original classic women's bicycle for sale.

Leaving the Fan and didn't get much use out of it. Would love this classic bike to go to good home, collector or shop owner.

Such an awesome aesthetic.

Has light, doesn't work but might be an easy fix, newspaper holder, head badge intact, reflectors on pedals, slender features compared to today's components.

jman0war 07-06-15 07:40 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 17952287)
My wife is a professional equestrian. According to her, you wouldn't want to use a product with wax. It should be a conditioner only. Wax is used as a sealant to protect, but will actually work against you when you are trying to rehydrate leather. I have used her Effax Leather Balsam with good results on my old Brooks saddle.

Shoot.
It's too late i think.
I've already covered it with 2 thick coats of Dubbin, and have now moved onto Brooks Proofhide.

edit:
Hold on, that Effax Leather Balsam has beeswax too.
effax | effax® Leather-Balm

Narhay 07-06-15 07:48 AM

I have a 72 ladies Raleigh Superbe in bronze green sitting as a frame. It was once an almost complete bike but the dynohub was damaged in some way and I wasn't able to adjust it without it binding up pretty bad on one part of the rotation. I found a new dynohub for $5 at a bike show in town and finally laced up the wheel. I still need to true and tension when my new truing stand shows up but it is laced now. I got the minoura trying stand and I'll see how it compares to the not so good pyramid trying stand I have now.
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6o8kdv4g.jpg

Slash5 07-06-15 08:30 AM

I picked up a 1946 Raleigh Sports at the bike show on the weekend. At first glance it looks to be in decent shape for it's age, hopefully no surprises.
Can anyone suggest a thread to refer to on working on an older bike where the patina and age of the bike need to be preserved? It's not something easily searched for.
I gather the frame should just be washed and wiped down with an oily rag, at least at first.
I assume chrome and mechanicals are pretty well the usual - clean, grease and lubricate.
I figure all new cables and housing are OK - although new housing is going to stand out like a sore thumb.


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