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carleton 09-22-15 07:05 AM


Originally Posted by brawlo (Post 18183941)
Also consider that there could be a significant amount of flex coming from the steerer tube, especially if it's a carbon offering

True.

I've heard of stronger guys reinforcing their carbon steerer tubes with steel pipes/sleeves to combat this. I'm not familiar with this practice.

slindell 09-23-15 08:31 PM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18184337)
True.

I've heard of stronger guys reinforcing their carbon steerer tubes with steel pipes/sleeves to combat this. I'm not familiar with this practice.

Cervelo stems come with a glue in tube instead of an expander to reinforce the steerer. I put a tube down a fork that was overly flexible and it stiffened up, also allowed use of a 1" star nut instead of the expander which was slipping. I am not sure if the end of the tube might provide a stress riser so it is not clear that the steerer is any stronger at the limit.

queerpunk 10-01-15 10:40 AM

here's a short about a dude i race against. he's got a bunch of master's national and world championships, and some world records too.

also he's a rad dude.

https://vimeo.com/139936091

Racer Ex 10-01-15 12:01 PM

Put up pics and my story about riding the Olympic Velodrome in London here. Have a look if you're interested.

Dalai 10-12-15 02:28 AM

Nice Racer Ex!

Discussion on weight weenies has brought 11.4 out of the woodwork.

Track training exercises - Weight Weenies

Question was:

"I've started organising a weekly training session on a nearby cycling oval (not a real track for 6-days etc) and I'm wondering if someone with experience can recommend some exercises."
11.4 reply


Start with a precision pace line warmup session -- 20 laps @ 20 mph, 20 laps @ 23 mph, 20 @ 25, 10 @ 28, 10 @ 30, 10 @ 33, changing every lap up through 25 and every half lap after that. Do this in a relatively small gear -- I usually do a 46x16 but a 48x16 is fine for most. Then go in and rest for 10 min.

Then do some 200 meter jumps off the rail. Do a line of 3 or 4 riders, ramp up to a high speed through the last lap and then kick max effort down to the next turn and through the finish line. After each one, roll around for 5-10 minutes -- you should be wiped enough from each jump or you aren't doing a max effort. Check your speed and if you drop off through two successive jumps, your legs are tired and you should go on to the next part of the workout -- pushing harder to go slower doesn't do much. I'd keep the gearing low on these. The point is to get very high cadence and high power output.

Next do some intermediate intervals, 1000 to 2000 meters, standard pace line with 3-4 riders per line and push the speed. On this and all workouts, at least have a speedo on your bike and ideally for the longer intervals have someone calling out lap times and tracking your speed so you have a record of performance level. This is a good place to put on your bigger gears, but only do so if you've been staying to low gears for a while in this effort and you are feeling really fit. Putting on a 98" gear for 2K when you aren't fit will just slow you down.

If you are focused on sprints and time trials, finish up with some rails -- basically ride fast laps up at the rail -- going up and down and not easing off on the downhills. Those are killers. Doing 3-4 kilos worth will wipe you out. Speed will be slower than on the 2K efforts, of necessity. Probably only need to do one. If you are focused on longer distances or massed start, you can do rails but perhaps better is to gear down. You can gear up on rails, but frankly they are most effective if you can turn an intermediate gear (say, 48x15).

When this series is done, gear back to a 48x16 or lower and do a 20 mph pace line for 5-10 minutes minimum. Then go in.

On pacelines it's important to manage your speed precisely. Jumping up 2-3 mph or dropping 2-3 mph just messes up everyone else, and you need to have a really good feel of your speed at a cadence. You're warming up and you're doing a precision workout here.

You can mix it up with efforts called Russians, where a pace line rides the track at race speed and the rearmost rider launches from the back and sprints up to the front and pulls into the line in front. Rotate until everyone has done 2 or 3 sprints.

When you are getting really fit and fast and big races are coming up, it's time to get some motor pacing. In your case you may need to do it on the road, but ideally do a very fast session behind the bike, either going faster and faster until you lose the motor, or have the motor increase at a lower rate and keep jumping past the motor, then back in. Motor pacing can get quite involved, and you really want to have a coach or someone else monitoring your performance carefully so you don't overdo it or waste your effort.

There are many different workouts beyond these, but this is a fundamental program that will work for a lot of people. As you get better, you'll get more into specialized drills -- standing starts, 500m or 1000m time trials, jumps, and so on. As such, your question should be broken out to address different levels of riders, riders with different focus areas on the track, and so on. This is just a basic starter package.

theblackbullet 10-12-15 01:20 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18209144)
here's a short about a dude i race against. he's got a bunch of master's national and world championships, and some world records too.

also he's a rad dude.

cool vid

I enjoyed racing against Dan in Indy. Super nice guy!

carleton 10-14-15 10:16 PM

"How cyclist Annette Edmondson trains for the track … and the road"


Athletes like Australia’s Annette Edmondson are pretty rare in the increasingly robotic world of pro sport, which is being inhabited by an ever-growing population of made-to-order athletes. But there’s no such pigeon-holing of “Nettie” at Wiggle Honda Pro Cycling, a British-based women’s team consisting of 15 riders from 11 different countries. Edmondson, a South Aussie, is among the most versatile riders in the world. And she doesn’t just partake in road and track events because she enjoys the variety; whatever the discipline, when Nettie arrives, the competition tenses up...
How cyclist Annette Edmondson trains for the track ... and the road - Inside Sport Magazine

gycho77 10-16-15 06:12 PM

Look CR 564P Track Frame
Look CR 564P on sale!!!!!

taras0000 10-16-15 06:28 PM


Originally Posted by gycho77 (Post 18248039)
Look CR 564P Track Frame
Look CR 564P on sale!!!!!

It's nothing special. It's an open mold frame made by Axman that's been available for years. You're just paying extra for the paint job with the "LOOK".

gycho77 10-16-15 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by taras0000 (Post 18248080)
It's nothing special. It's an open mold frame made by Axman that's been available for years. You're just paying extra for the paint job with the "LOOK".

Wow I did not know about that
So you can order the frame from axman in cheaper price?

taras0000 10-16-15 06:53 PM

Yes. For about 400 dollars less

gtrob 10-16-15 10:39 PM

Tiny bikes. Im sure they will sell plenty of them since they are a 'steal' compared to the L96 I guess haha. Id sooner get a Dolan DF4 for that price point.

Hrothgar42 10-27-15 09:32 PM

http://i.imgur.com/AKDN6yhl.png

Here's an interactive stack and reach graph - the end result of looking obsessively at geometry charts.

https://googledrive.com/host/0BzwSdU...GdKVk0/2d.html

Some stack and reach values are calculated from seat tube length and angle. If you happen to know the actual stack/reach for those models, get in touch!

carleton 10-28-15 02:10 AM


Originally Posted by Hrothgar42 (Post 18275661)
http://i.imgur.com/AKDN6yhl.png

Here's an interactive stack and reach graph - the end result of looking obsessively at geometry charts.

https://googledrive.com/host/0BzwSdU...GdKVk0/2d.html

Some stack and reach values are calculated from seat tube length and angle. If you happen to know the actual stack/reach for those models, get in touch!

This is AMAZING. Did you use Google Fusion Tables or something?

Bulldogsprinter 10-28-15 03:29 AM


Originally Posted by Hrothgar42 (Post 18275661)
http://i.imgur.com/AKDN6yhl.png

Here's an interactive stack and reach graph - the end result of looking obsessively at geometry charts.

https://googledrive.com/host/0BzwSdU...GdKVk0/2d.html

Some stack and reach values are calculated from seat tube length and angle. If you happen to know the actual stack/reach for those models, get in touch!

Looking at that I see that the DF4 was the best choice for me, most reach and least stack for a 57cm frame.

queerpunk 10-28-15 07:48 AM

1 Attachment(s)
that's very cool.

for anybody who doesn't know, Stack and Reach are the two measurements that remove other geometry variables so that you can actually compare the sizes of two different bike models.

Consider this: a bike with a black frame and a lower seat-tube angle and a red frame with a steeper seat-tube angle are next to each other. because of the seat-tube angle, they have very different top-tube measurements - but regardless of that, you still need to put the saddle in the same place to get your saddle:bb relationship correct!

the Reach measurement measures from a vertical line coming out of the bottom bracket, to the middle of the headtube - so it removes the effect of a variable seat-tube angle.

Stack and Reach are the ONLY way to compare the sizes of bikes.


http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=484939

weavie 10-28-15 08:13 AM

Thanks for publishing this chart, it's a great tool to have available.

I'm interested to know how you came to these values. I've been using "reach = top tube - (cos(seat tube angle) * length of seat tube)" and it gets me pretty close most of the time to published reach numbers but yours are a bit different for the bike I own (Fuji track elite) so I'm thinking you have a different equation.

Hrothgar42 10-28-15 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18275871)
This is AMAZING. Did you use Google Fusion Tables or something?

No. But looking at it, maybe I should have. :) It's custom javascript on top of Chart.js. Next up is figuring out how to get more frames in the legend, then maybe adding options for plotting top tube and head tube length.


Originally Posted by weavie (Post 18276267)
I'm interested to know how you came to these values. I've been using "reach = top tube - (cos(seat tube angle) * length of seat tube)" and it gets me pretty close most of the time to published reach numbers but yours are a bit different for the bike I own (Fuji track elite) so I'm thinking you have a different equation.

That is the equation I'm using if the manufacturer doesn't publish stack and reach. It's accurate if the top tube is horizontal, but if the seat tube is significantly higher or lower than the top of the head tube, it's not great. Take a look at the Dolan TC1 or the Giant Omnium in the graph. They both shorten the reach when going up a size. Now that's probably due to the calculation being inaccurate, but it would be great to know for sure.

Fuji does provide stack and reach for the track elite in their geometry chart, and I'm using the 2015 one here. Is yours possibly an older model year? I can add it assuming I fix the legend size issue.

queerpunk 10-28-15 10:24 AM

it should work if you use "effective top tube" measurements, which assume a horizontal TT in situations where there is not one.

Hrothgar42 10-28-15 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18276652)
it should work if you use "effective top tube" measurements, which assume a horizontal TT in situations where there is not one.

That's definitely one piece, but we also need an "effective seat tube" as a measurement from the BB to the ST junction with the "effective top tube". That would give us the right (pun intended?) triangle to use trig on.


Originally Posted by Bulldogsprinter (Post 18275891)
Looking at that I see that the DF4 was the best choice for me, most reach and least stack for a 57cm frame.

Glad you found it useful. I've been trying to decide if I'm flexible enough to get a Hoy, based on riding a Langster pro 54 and 56 rentals at Hellyer.

weavie 10-28-15 10:51 AM

Sorry, my mistake, I misread my notes and was looking at the numbers for the Fuji Track Pro.

gtrob 10-28-15 02:18 PM

Looking at that chart explains why I had to use a -35 stem and still wasn't as low as I wanted on my T1 lol. Although I guess the 'slammed' stem is stiffer than having 4 inches of steerer tube sticking out, which I believe why cervelo was notorious for having such large stack heights on all of their bikes.. But I did just buy a new frame yesterday, which puts me 45mm longer reach and nearly 50mm less stack, so it will take some getting used to Im sure.

Dalai 10-28-15 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 18277369)
But I did just buy a new frame yesterday

Well???? Don't leave us hanging... :)

gtrob 10-28-15 05:49 PM

ha well Im still waiting for it to arrive, hopefully get to build it up this weekend and will add pics. Kind of feel dumb as I already sold my current bike so have nothing to ride but the rental bikes at the track right now lol

Not sure its public yet but its the same bike our national team is moving to!

Dalai 10-29-15 12:56 AM

Looking forward to the photos.

Discussion - "Hard evidence for weight training for track sprints?" in the Google group cycling-physiology

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...gy/6DiYuZevYT4

dunderhi 10-29-15 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18276203)
that's very cool.

for anybody who doesn't know, Stack and Reach are the two measurements that remove other geometry variables so that you can actually compare the sizes of two different bike models.

Consider this: a bike with a black frame and a lower seat-tube angle and a red frame with a steeper seat-tube angle are next to each other. because of the seat-tube angle, they have very different top-tube measurements - but regardless of that, you still need to put the saddle in the same place to get your saddle:bb relationship correct!

the Reach measurement measures from a vertical line coming out of the bottom bracket, to the middle of the headtube - so it removes the effect of a variable seat-tube angle.

Stack and Reach are the ONLY way to compare the sizes of bikes.


http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=484939

I tried to compare the published stack & reach of my Pinarello and Argon 18 and Argon18 doesn't list the stack & reach. I guess I'll need to measure them myself to see how they compare. Despite their wildly different geometries, they both feel fine to me.

Hrothgar42 10-29-15 06:26 PM

Bobby sent me stack and reach numbers for the Dixie Flyer!

I updated the graph... https://googledrive.com/host/0BzwSdU...GdKVk0/2d.html

carleton 10-30-15 12:48 PM

(Most of you know about this)

Tissot Timing is the official timer for most (if not all) UCI events. They post results and sometimes live data on their site:

Tissot Timing - Results -

The data goes back for several years for several events (mostly World Cups and World Championships, but other stuff like European Championships will be there, too. Events date back to 2000.

Tissot Timing - Results - CYCLING TRACK

Pay close attention. If you ever see "Analysis" next to an event, that will list the "audit" split times every 125m for an event. For example:

http://i.imgur.com/a0Yxh3N.png

Also, look up top and see general info like schedule, registered teams and racers, communiques (official docs and statements)

http://i.imgur.com/ZHoWQbQ.png

This data is "straight from the horse's mouth" when it comes to results.

Dalai 11-02-15 08:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Aero helmets - with and without visor*

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=485913

*Actual drag values will be specific to the individual.

dunderhi 11-02-15 09:24 PM

Wow, I just found a video of how I spent a good part of my summer. It kind of gives you an idea of the extra things Ttown does to attract larger crowds. Too bad there weren't any clips of old guy racing on Saturdays. :(

https://youtu.be/O35WZi7lSt4 Okay, there's one old guy(50+) in the Sr4 field . Unfortunately, he didn't win. :cry:

https://youtu.be/pFjtkCVx_AM


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