Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21484315)
It's not just a bike shortage.....
the ports were sitting very empty back in Febuary/March anyone paying attention. You guys are just seeing the bike shortage because It directly effects you (your hobby/passion). Tariffs have nothing to do with a shortage. Tariffs only raised the cost of said bikes. ”=inheritBut the demand could not have come at a worse time.Most American importers have kept limited inventory since 2018, when President Trump ordered new tariffs on goods produced in China, where some parts used on nearly all bikes sold in the United States are made. As a result, in 2019 the number of bikes imported into the United States dropped by around 25 percent compared with 2018, according to Mr. Margevicius. In the first quarter of this year, imports were down by around 30 percent compared to the same period in 2019.” |
Originally Posted by walnutz
(Post 21484474)
From the article:
”=inheritBut the demand could not have come at a worse time.Most American importers have kept limited inventory since 2018, when President Trump ordered new tariffs on goods produced in China, where some parts used on nearly all bikes sold in the United States are made. As a result, in 2019 the number of bikes imported into the United States dropped by around 25 percent compared with 2018, according to Mr. Margevicius. In the first quarter of this year, imports were down by around 30 percent compared to the same period in 2019.” I'd also glady pay the tariff on many bicycles than to Over pay Salsa for bicycle of the same quality as a China made bicycle. |
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21484315)
It's not just a bike shortage.....
the ports were sitting very empty back in Febuary/March anyone paying attention. You guys are just seeing the bike shortage because It directly effects you (your hobby/passion). Tariffs have nothing to do with a shortage. Tariffs only raised the cost of said bikes. |
but... apparently... the consummers don't mind paying the tariffs, and are buying bikes.
So the question is "Who" made an issue over the Tariffs? The same "Who" that are making an issue of it here and now. |
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21485538)
but... apparently... the consummers don't mind paying the tariffs, and are buying bikes.
So the question is "Who" made an issue over the Tariffs? The same "Who" that are making an issue of it here and now. Whether consumers will pay the terrific or not has nothing to with if your comment was wrong, which it was. The tarrifs contributed to the current shortage because once in effect, production was reduced and imports were reduced. Again, whether or not consumers will pay the increased price has no bearing on the accuracy of their comments. Also, consumers having to pay more money due to the government hiking up taxes on the product(which is what this is) is mind-boggling. With tarrifs, consumers are financially penalized in the end. Thats unfortunate. |
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
(Post 21485633)
You claimed tarrifs have nothing to do with the current shortage. 2 posters have now provided information to refute your claim. One cited an article and the other owns a bike shop so thats kinda sorta direct knowledge.
Whether consumers will pay the terrific or not has nothing to with if your comment was wrong, which it was. The tarrifs contributed to the current shortage because once in effect, production was reduced and imports were reduced. Again, whether or not consumers will pay the increased price has no bearing on the accuracy of their comments. Also, consumers having to pay more money due to the government hiking up taxes on the product(which is what this is) is mind-boggling. With tarrifs, consumers are financially penalized in the end. Thats unfortunate. |
for all the crying over tariffs , maybe this should be a kayak or canoe forum.
|
Of course tarrifs were in play to cause this shortage
As said before, bike sales were poor before this all went down, so if a product that you are having trouble selling is all of a sudden more expensive do you predict more sales or less? If you predict less sales because of higher costs then you carry less inventory.....BOOM shortage! It's not the only factor, but it's certainly playing a part |
current events are infused with multiple economical/political/sociological aspects. it is impossible to accurately segregate the three currently given the circumstances...
especially regarding complete new bicycles < $1,200. regardless...it's a good time to support classic and vintage. |
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21485669)
America first, if you don't have jobs you don't have money to spend.
The correct response to the other posters was 'Oh, thats interesting. Thanks for the information, looks like I was wrong'. |
Originally Posted by mstateglfr
(Post 21485820)
The correct response to the other posters was 'Oh, thats interesting. Thanks for the information, looks like I was wrong'. Again Americans need jobs, to earn money, to spend money. Maybe Americans can Expat and work in overseas Manufacturing plants for jobs? |
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21485669)
America first, if you don't have jobs you don't have money to spend.
"According to the Tax Foundation model, the tariffs imposed so far by the Trump administration would reduce long-run GDP by 0.23 percent ($58.02 billion) and wages by 0.15 percent and eliminate 179,800 full-time equivalent jobs." The above estimate does not include the job losses that are resulting from other countries' retaliatory tariffs, but those estimates are in the linked article. Retaliatory tariffs are a very predictable response from other countries, so those additional job losses (and reductions in GDP) were foreseeable, too. None of this is at all surprising, as the theoretical explanation has been well-understood for almost 200 years - and we've had plenty of empirical evidence to support these conclusions. |
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21485831)
My correct response was Exactly what I typed. your Correct response if you don't like my response..... is to ignore my response.
Again Americans need jobs, to earn money, to spend money. Maybe Americans can Expat and work in overseas Manufacturing plants for jobs? |
After all is said and done, I see NO bicycle manufacturing reshoring to the US in light of the recent tariffs. Not even a hint of it. That is a fact. Cannondale & Trek are not talking about coming back. Giant and Shimano are not scoping out vacant manufacturing space in Detroit, The niche component manufacturers and bike builders that were here before largely still are here; nothing has changed except the whole retail side of the inductry has been turned upside down and prices have largely gone up. Nothing is settling back in a better place than before the tariffs. That is a fact too.
Tell me, what in the bike industry is better now, what new American jobs have been created and who is better off than before? Facts please... I am for creation of more good paying American jobs, but the reckless, poorly conceived flailing our government has just put all of us through has had no short term or long term positive impact on our industry and has created no new cycling-related jobs for us. |
Originally Posted by dwmckee
(Post 21499120)
After all is said and done, I see NO bicycle manufacturing reshoring to the US in light of the recent tariffs. Not even a hint of it. That is a fact. Cannondale & Trek are not talking about coming back. Giant and Shimano are not scoping out vacant manufacturing space in Detroit, The niche component manufacturers and bike builders that were here before largely still are here; nothing has changed except the whole retail side of the inductry has been turned upside down and prices have largely gone up. Nothing is settling back in a better place than before the tariffs. That is a fact too.
Tell me, what in the bike industry is better now, what new American jobs have been created and who is better off than before? Facts please... I am for creation of more good paying American jobs, but the reckless, poorly conceived flailing our government has just put all of us through has had no short term or long term positive impact on our industry and has created no new cycling-related jobs for us. |
Originally Posted by dwmckee
(Post 21499120)
After all is said and done, I see NO bicycle manufacturing reshoring to the US in light of the recent tariffs. Not even a hint of it. That is a fact. Cannondale & Trek are not talking about coming back. Giant and Shimano are not scoping out vacant manufacturing space in Detroit, The niche component manufacturers and bike builders that were here before largely still are here; nothing has changed except the whole retail side of the inductry has been turned upside down and prices have largely gone up. Nothing is settling back in a better place than before the tariffs. That is a fact too.
Tell me, what in the bike industry is better now, what new American jobs have been created and who is better off than before? Facts please... I am for creation of more good paying American jobs, but the reckless, poorly conceived flailing our government has just put all of us through has had no short term or long term positive impact on our industry and has created no new cycling-related jobs for us. But I can't emphasize this strongly enough: for a variety of reasons, the tariffs are actually reducing employment in the US. One simple mechanism, which demonstrates the "flailing" you referred to, is up near me in NW Pennsylvania: a steel mill that was still in operation (though below historic capacity) had to lay off 100 employees, because Trump's tariffs applied to imported steel - and this mill was importing slabs of steel from Ukraine and hot rolling it right here in PA. They were paying $2 million per week in tariffs, but couldn't afford it, and hence the layoffs. And no, there is not a domestic source for the steel they need. So, that's a hundred jobs lost in an area that desperately needs them. I would love to read Metieval 's response. |
Originally Posted by Koyote
(Post 21500448)
Don, this is all exactly correct. The manufacturing that is leaving China is mainly relocating in other countries (mostly Southeast Asia) that are not subject to such large tariffs; they are not relocating to the US.
But I can't emphasize this strongly enough: for a variety of reasons, the tariffs are actually reducing employment in the US. One simple mechanism, which demonstrates the "flailing" you referred to, is up near me in NW Pennsylvania: a steel mill that was still in operation (though below historic capacity) had to lay off 100 employees, because Trump's tariffs applied to imported steel - and this mill was importing slabs of steel from Ukraine and hot rolling it right here in PA. They were paying $2 million per week in tariffs, but couldn't afford it, and hence the layoffs. And no, there is not a domestic source for the steel they need. So, that's a hundred jobs lost in an area that desperately needs them. I would love to read Metieval 's response. On tariffs (POLITICAL talk) on a Bike forum? OR about STEEL MILLS, on a bike Forum (STILL political and off topic)? Go Troll elsewhere! |
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21501430)
On bike shortages?
On tariffs (POLITICAL talk) on a Bike forum? OR about STEEL MILLS, on a bike Forum (STILL political and off topic)? Go Troll elsewhere! |
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21501430)
On bike shortages?
On tariffs (POLITICAL talk) on a Bike forum? OR about STEEL MILLS, on a bike Forum (STILL political and off topic)? Go Troll elsewhere! You have already done all the things you now suddenly refuse to do. Anyways, I decided to respond since I read thru the thread again and got a chuckle from seeing that you have your convictions, except when it comes to less expensive wheels. I laughed, that was pretty funny. |
Yep, I am glad that I have a job in the USA and can afford to pay 20% more for a bicycle with parts from China.
Albeit, frames from Taiwan are higher quality, and I love my Japaneses components. As for this current Bicycle Shortage goes.... Most of those entry level bikes will be back on the market in a year unused at half the cost people bought them for. |
Been putting off getting my teenage son a new MTB for a few years because he just wasn't riding. He'd outgrown his old one quite some time ago. Suddenly, since the pandemic and stay-at-home schooling, he's riding my singlespeed cross bike all the time, and riding with me again (amazing--I thought those days were over!). He just wanted a new entry-level hardtail and there was NOTHING in stock locally but just last week we lucked out and found a 2020 Jamis 29'r that's his size - literally one of the only bikes in stock. Works for me - Jamis is a great brand.
|
Originally Posted by pbass
(Post 21502161)
Been putting off getting my teenage son a new MTB for a few years because he just wasn't riding. He'd outgrown his old one quite some time ago. Suddenly, since the pandemic and stay-at-home schooling, he's riding my singlespeed cross bike all the time, and riding with me again (amazing--I thought those days were over!). He just wanted a new entry-level hardtail and there was NOTHING in stock locally but just last week we lucked out and found a 2020 Jamis 29'r that's his size - literally one of the only bikes in stock. Works for me - Jamis is a great brand.
|
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21484601)
I am willing to pay more for imports if it means more jobs for Americans!
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21485538)
but... apparently... the consummers don't mind paying the tariffs, and are buying bikes.
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21485669)
America first, if you don't have jobs you don't have money to spend.
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21502109)
Yep, I am glad that I have a job in the USA and can afford to pay 20% more for a bicycle with parts from China. Albeit, frames from Taiwan are higher quality, and I love my Japaneses components.
And if you really cared about creating jobs in the US, you would buy Zipp wheels (which are made in Indiana) instead of Light bicycle rims (which are made in China.) But you told us that you wouldn't do that. |
Originally Posted by Metieval
(Post 21502185)
I am seeing a surge of used bike popping up on facebook markets. People are seeing the shortage and taking advantage of it to get rid of the bike that's been in their possession that they don't ride.
|
Originally Posted by Koyote
(Post 21502210)
If you are willing to pay more for imports, how does that mean "more jobs for Americans"? You'd still be buying imports, but would be paying a tax to the US federal gov't.
Okay, so you state that consumers "don't mind paying the tariffs." Tariffs only apply to imported goods. So, again: how does this create "more jobs for Americans"? Umm, okay, but you've argued that the tariffs are not dissuading you and other consumers from buying imported goods. Imported goods don't create jobs for Americans. You realize that China, Taiwan, and Japan are all foreign countries, and those goods you are buying are, ahem, not produced by US workers? And if you really cared about creating jobs in the US, you would buy Zipps wheels (which are made in Indiana) instead of Light bicycle rims (which are made in China.) But you told us that you wouldn't do that. In the meantime there is a MULTITUDE of USA made (non bicycle) products that are far better than Imported goods. Which if brought up would get reported as offtopic. Bicycles are only a very small percentage of the entire picture. To Use the Bicycle market as an argument to cover the entire Topic is insanity. Thus the topic can't truly be discussed and remain in a bicycle forum. |
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