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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

barnfind 08-05-21 09:22 PM


Originally Posted by theofam (Post 22172882)
As BFisher asked earlier, “How rusty?”

Well, rusty enough to remove the rear wheel and have the chain maintain its same shape! Rusty enough for both the SA three speed and crank to be frozen. Rusty enough to require my body weight in white vinegar to scrub numerous parts after stripping the Western Flyer to its frame. Rusty enough for most folks to bin it, but, much like motorcycles I’ve restored from the dead, I like the idea of giving something hopeless a second chance.

I've been amazed many times at how clean an old frame and fork became after a long soak in vinegar or some Evapo-Rust.
Step one though is to completely degrease things, grease ruins Evapo Rust
I used to keep a gallon or two on hand, now I've been buying it by the 5 gallon pail I've been meaning to build wood fixture with some movable parts so I can soak whole frames in less fluid.

Just remember that both will remove or eat away at zinc and most cad plating too. Spokes will come out looking like new but they're also just bare steel and bound to rust after that.

barnfind 08-05-21 10:22 PM

[QUOTE=arty dave;22172618]

Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22171975)
....................................... ........................................................
I got excited for a moment there, but no World Tours in 27x1 1/4" :( . They are a good tyre. I've been pleased with buying from Bike24 (Germany to Australia), and bought a pair of Alloy Westwood rims from them, that I still haven't laced up. My excuse is that I'm still building the space to build bikes in :)


I think the 27" tires are gone, some time last year they changed their advertising on the World Tour tire to include 'Protek Compound' and they sort became part of a new series. I've not seen any of the newer tires, but I have a sneaky suspicion they changed something.

Last spring they blew out the black and whitewall 650B sizes for cheap in Europe, then they came back at double the price and noadvertising some type of puncture protection.
They do list a Protek 27x1 1/4 tire which has a more modern tread in both black and white refletctive side walls.
I haven't ridden on either of those, only the original version, if there really was any change, or if it was just a way to re-introduce it again.
I have used the older World Tour tires in both 26x1 3/8" (590), and 27" and have to say they were likely one of the best tire choices for these older bikes. Too many newer tires are just too small for the marked size, these always tended to be the opposite running a bit wider than most. The last time I saw the 590 size listed on CL, I bought up two cases of them for future use. As I feared, I haven't seen them listed again though. I would try a newer pair if I happened to find them here but with shipping being an issue, I'm not ordering just one pair from Europe just to try. The price point to save the most on shipping is likely several dozen tires if you find the right supplier there.
They don't appear to be available here, but maybe a few shop owners will chime in.

arty dave 08-06-21 04:01 AM


Originally Posted by barnfind (Post 22172966)
They do list a Protek 27x1 1/4 tire which has a more modern tread in both black and white refletctive side walls.

I think you're right barnfind, the World Tours seem to be finished in 27 x 1 1/4.

I have the plain black proteks on one bike and they do ride very nice. The tread is more like a delta cruiser. They were incredibly difficult (tight) to fit to the rim though. I've broken a tyre lever on these tyres! I'm not looking forward to removing them when I get around to changing the rear rim to a 3 speed hub. I may have to pick up some steel core tyre levers to remove them :)

A tyre I'd like to try in the future is the 27 x 1 /4 Schwalbe HS159 in whitewalls.

rustymetal 08-06-21 04:29 AM

What do most do with ladies frames that have been stripped for their parts?

I'm getting ready to strip down a few Sprites with S5 hubs and already have quite a few other ladies frames hanging around from past part-outs.

dirtman 08-06-21 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by theofam (Post 22172873)
In my quest for to post a pic, some background. I was speaking with my dad and uncle last week. It turns out, as kids, they frequented a store called Western Auto Parts. This chain of stores sold a rebadged Raleigh three-speed as a Western Flyer, which is one of two bikes I packed up in an enclosed trailer from Lake Havasu to Denver after wrapping up a motorcycle trip earlier this year.

From the web:
WF ad in Boys Life Magazine 1960
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e0fb0c1d35.jpg

I had found this looking for info on one I saw the other day, but once i talked to the seller i realized it was too far to drive for a bike that wasn't really my size and in need of a lot of work. If it were a taller frame or in better condition maybe I'd have made the drive. The ad went away a few days later so someone must have bought it.

thumpism 08-06-21 06:25 AM


Originally Posted by rustymetal (Post 22173081)
What do most do with ladies frames that have been stripped for their parts?

I'm getting ready to strip down a few Sprites with S5 hubs and already have quite a few other ladies frames hanging around from past part-outs.

If you have any with 23" stepthrough frames you might be able to offer them for sale. I ride a 23" men's Sports and picked up a 23" ladies' for the future day when I'll no longer be able to swing a leg over a diamond frame easily. Anyway, folks with diamond frames might be interested in stocking up against future need.

dirtman 08-06-21 06:45 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 22173073)
I think you're right barnfind, the World Tours seem to be finished in 27 x 1 1/4.

I have the plain black proteks on one bike and they do ride very nice. The tread is more like a delta cruiser. They were incredibly difficult (tight) to fit to the rim though. I've broken a tyre lever on these tyres! I'm not looking forward to removing them when I get around to changing the rear rim to a 3 speed hub. I may have to pick up some steel core tyre levers to remove them :)

A tyre I'd like to try in the future is the 27 x 1 /4 Schwalbe HS159 in whitewalls.

Back in the day we used to sell a ton of those Michelin World Tour tires in 27x 1 1/4" gumwall, but I never knew back then they made other sizes and that they came in black wall too.
I was never a fan of 'gum' wall tires, I'd have had them on all my bikes then if they came in black. On some rims they almost looked huge, guys that rode the state parks on their road bikes loved them.
The only other wide 27" tire was a knobby, and most guys didn't want those on the pavement.
I had tried a set of the knobby tires on one bike, it took me all of about 5 miles to decide they were coming off.

Years ago when we had to deal with some of the super tight fitting tires, we kept a bottle of dish soap handy, just a bit of soap usually made the tightest tires slip right on by hand. After they spent some time on the rim inflated, they were rarely an issue.
The worst I remember were some of the narrow Continental tires on Rigida 1320 rims that came on the first Treks and some Motobecane models.

One tire I've not seen in ages was one marked Supertrak, it was a blackwall slick in 27x1 3/8" with a slight raised section down the center with a few direction sipes off to each side.
The owner got them from the same place he used to get solid industrial tires from for bikes being used in a few local factories. I never tried a set but they looked like a good heavy duty tire for risky roads. Back then most of our roads were just oil and stone paved, Until it got packed down and hardened, it was like riding on inch deep crushed glass. If you crashed on that stuff you were picking bits of sharp rock out of your legs. On fresh roads, narrow bike tires would cut through right down to the tar layer. Cleaning that off a bike was a real mess. .
The Protek tires look like a decent tire with some added thickness where it counts.
Is the Protek tire as wide as the World Tour?

SirMike1983 08-06-21 07:45 AM

Barnfind - I think you have the wrong quote. Another user was asking about the 27 x 1 1/4 tires.

SirMike1983 08-06-21 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 22172618)

You really do have some beautiful bikes Sir Mike, and I enjoy seeing the ones you post.
I'll have to post my early 50's TCW hub before it goes back into its shell. It looks clean and functional & I'm hoping it works. I harvested it from a 24" girls bike with a very bent frame. I'm also hoping the front drum brake will help the TCW to slow down the roadster they'll be on. The only coaster brake I've used was a Sachs 3 speed that had less braking power in third gear and more in 1st, and I think the TCW is similar.



I got excited for a moment there, but no World Tours in 27x1 1/4" :( . They are a good tyre. I've been pleased with buying from Bike24 (Germany to Australia), and bought a pair of Alloy Westwood rims from them, that I still haven't laced up. My excuse is that I'm still building the space to build bikes in :)

I appreciate it. The Manton got donated to a local bike co-op and the Tiger I sold to a fellow who wanted to do his own, additional customizations. They were good bikes but I didn't ride them enough. They sure were attractive. I love old American and British bikes. People sometimes forget that from about 1938 through 1950 or so, several American bike manufacturers tried to revive the adult cycling market in the US. There was a bike boom in the US during the 1890s, but it went bust shortly after the turn of the 20th century. Gradually, the automobile took over by the 1920s. The English stuck with their bikes. Then starting in the late 1930s, American manufacturers like Schwinn, Columbia/Westfield, and a couple other builders tried to revive the adult sporting market for cycling. This included both touring and racing. The Manton & Smith shown (though a bit modified) appears to have been Manton's attempt at an adult utility cycle in the 1940s. The companies made a good run at it and produced some excellent utility-type 3 speeds in that era, but ultimately the automobile was too dominant in the US for the 1930s-40s revival to really take hold.

If you have the coaster hub already and it seems to be in good shape, it's worth giving a try. The cost is time only to try it. The TCW indeed has variable braking with 3 being kind of weaker than the other gears. The brake shoe is undersized relative to what one would want, and the transmission bloc is held in place using an E-clip, which if it moves, will throw the transmission off. Make sure that E-clip is firmly in the groove on the axle. You'll still want a front handbrake on the bike if you use the TCW. It's good to be able to re-use the old hub if everything is good on it.

Ballenxj 08-06-21 08:47 AM


Originally Posted by theofam (Post 22172873)
In my quest for to post a pic, some background. I was speaking with my dad and uncle last week. It turns out, as kids, they frequented a store called Western Auto Parts. This chain of stores sold a rebadged Raleigh three-speed as a Western Flyer, which is one of two bikes I packed up in an enclosed trailer from Lake Havasu to Denver after wrapping up a motorcycle trip earlier this year.

Good ole Western Auto. I remember them well. Everything from car parts bicycles hardware etc.

dweenk 08-06-21 09:15 AM


Originally Posted by Ballenxj (Post 22173376)
Good ole Western Auto. I remember them well. Everything from car parts bicycles hardware etc.

Along with sporting goods of all types - baseball gloves, baseball bats, balls of all types, fishing gear, firearms, ammunition, and some things I haven't thought of. Let's not forget lawnmowers and garden tools.

markk900 08-06-21 09:16 AM

dweenk ....and outboard motors....

dweenk 08-06-21 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 22173432)
dweenk ....and outboard motors....

The more I think about it, the more I remember. Christmas toys, baby strollers, canoe paddles, and on and on. I see you are in Canada. Was the store operating there as well?

markk900 08-06-21 10:34 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 22173502)
The more I think about it, the more I remember. Christmas toys, baby strollers, canoe paddles, and on and on. I see you are in Canada. Was the store operating there as well?

No - I just know about Western Auto mainly from the vintage outboard hobby and now here on BF. We have our own national chains with a similar set of products (Canadian Tire being the most prominent).

dweenk 08-06-21 11:56 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 22173546)
No - I just know about Western Auto mainly from the vintage outboard hobby and now here on BF. We have our own national chains with a similar set of products (Canadian Tire being the most prominent).

BTW: Congatulations on the Canadian women's gold in soccer.

gster 08-07-21 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 22173502)
The more I think about it, the more I remember. Christmas toys, baby strollers, canoe paddles, and on and on. I see you are in Canada. Was the store operating there as well?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...adf469bf09.jpg
We had our own version here.
Last year or so I did some work on a neighbour's childhood bike.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fc3bb07d31.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cfd1c92e05.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a11fdba383.jpg
This bike was a rebranded CCM model.

theofam 08-07-21 10:31 PM

gster thumpism dirtman , your memories of Western Auto Parts jibe with those of my dad and uncle. Sounds it was my kind of store!

This 10-post-minimum-to-post-a-pic-or-external-link policy is killing me. And, I got locked out 24 hours for five posts within 24 hours. I've spent the last day troubleshooting the root causes of a couple noises. I got help on another forum where I'm not in newbie standing. Turns out I had a pesky rear fender rub point on the right chain stay. The bike was howling when I rode it! All is quiet now, though.

I'm a bigger motorcycle fan than bicycle fan, so I built it with a 1920s board track racer in mind. You'll see it when I get to 10.

<RANT>In an age of visually-rendered information (photos, videos, filter-rich bikini shots on Instagram), I'm struggling with 10 posts before a guy can post a pic of his bike. Sorry/not sorry mods.</RANT>

I've almost gotten the SA shifter working. I can get it into all three discrete gears, but third slips/freewheels sometimes, which is disconcerting. Any advice on how to fine tune it is welcome.

gster 08-08-21 06:34 AM


Originally Posted by theofam (Post 22175421)
gster thumpism dirtman , your memories of Western Auto Parts jibe with those of my dad and uncle. Sounds it was my kind of store!

This 10-post-minimum-to-post-a-pic-or-external-link policy is killing me. And, I got locked out 24 hours for five posts within 24 hours. I've spent the last day troubleshooting the root causes of a couple noises. I got help on another forum where I'm not in newbie standing. Turns out I had a pesky rear fender rub point on the right chain stay. The bike was howling when I rode it! All is quiet now, though.

I'm a bigger motorcycle fan than bicycle fan, so I built it with a 1920s board track racer in mind. You'll see it when I get to 10.

<RANT>In an age of visually-rendered information (photos, videos, filter-rich bikini shots on Instagram), I'm struggling with 10 posts before a guy can post a pic of his bike. Sorry/not sorry mods.</RANT>

I've almost gotten the SA shifter working. I can get it into all three discrete gears, but third slips/freewheels sometimes, which is disconcerting. Any advice on how to fine tune it is welcome.

Assuming that you have the correct indicator pin installed (they come in different lengths.
Put the trigger in 2nd gear.
the crown of the indicator should just be barely proud of the axle
return the trigger to 3rd and adjust the fine tune at the hub
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...576e3aaaca.gif
If you're using a new cable it may stretch a bit over time and you'll need to re adjust
an old cable can also cause some problems

gster 08-08-21 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 22170440)
1947 Schwinn New World 3-speed out on a nice, summer evening.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ow217u8ys...722_183958.jpg

Sweet!

theofam 08-08-21 10:09 AM

Thanks, gster . Your diagram and description taught me I have the wrong (too short) indicator pin. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me and provide visuals, which are always helpful!

That said, I've dialed in the shifting so that I can use all three gears. It should work for today's ride, and I can get the correct indicator later.

On another note, I've been wanting a gravel bike. The Salsa I like is $2,800. Not happening. So, I've started looking into converting an old steel 10 speed. My buddy who gave me the Western Flyer was just given a Schwinn by his neighbor. It found its way to my garage. I disassembled it yesterday and started internet sleuthing just what it is. All indications are a 23" 1982 Schwinn Voyageur in Black Sable. Outside the 4130 sticker declaring double butted tubing, the rest of the frame is well worn, scratched and faded. So, I'm thinking I'll try my first frame/fork paint job. I'd like to find decals for it, too. Anyone have a go-to source for Schwinn decals?

Unca_Sam 08-08-21 10:27 AM


Originally Posted by theofam (Post 22175781)
Thanks, gster . Your diagram and description taught me I have the wrong (too short) indicator pin. I appreciate you taking the time to educate me and provide visuals, which are always helpful!

That said, I've dialed in the shifting so that I can use all three gears. It should work for today's ride, and I can get the correct indicator later.

On another note, I've been wanting a gravel bike. The Salsa I like is $2,800. Not happening. So, I've started looking into converting an old steel 10 speed. My buddy who gave me the Western Flyer was just given a Schwinn by his neighbor. It found its way to my garage. I disassembled it yesterday and started internet sleuthing just what it is. All indications are a 23" 1982 Schwinn Voyageur in Black Sable. Outside the 4130 sticker declaring double butted tubing, the rest of the frame is well worn, scratched and faded. So, I'm thinking I'll try my first frame/fork paint job. I'd like to find decals for it, too. Anyone have a go-to source for Schwinn decals?

Meh. What would you need decals for unless you're restoring it? I'd also caution that "painting" a steel bicycle frame should be known as "sanding, sanding, and more sanding".

Maybe start a thread for your new cheapo gravel conversion in the main C&V thread?

theofam 08-08-21 12:42 PM


Originally Posted by Unca_Sam (Post 22175793)
Meh. What would you need decals for unless you're restoring it? I'd also caution that "painting" a steel bicycle frame should be known as "sanding, sanding, and more sanding".

Maybe start a thread for your new cheapo gravel conversion in the main C&V thread?

Ha! Agreed! Between a 1971 VW Super Beetle rebuilt in high school and, more recently, a 1978 Honda CB750 restoration, I'm well versed in sanding, sanding, sanding! I might choose to strip it first, then finish up with some sanding.

I haven't been here long enough to see any build threads. I may just start one up!

gster 08-08-21 02:08 PM

New Project
I picked up an early-mid 50's Sports frame from George at Parts Unknown today.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6555e41f70.jpg
I'm transferring parts over from a previous build that didn't suit me.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e2025abe24.jpg
A tall Raleigh 10 speed frame, converted to a 3 speed.
The geometry on this was more upright and it never looked or rode right.
Parts include:
1961 back wheel
EA1 front wheel
Leather saddle and all the rest of the stuff.
It's a smaller frame but it will make for a fun and quick project

cudak888 08-08-21 02:56 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 22176009)
New Project
I picked up an early-mid 50's Sports frame from George at Parts Unknown today.

Seattube bands indicate 1960's, but early enough to predate the thinner seatstays.

-Kurt

ConnoisseurEqua 08-08-21 05:56 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 22172749)
Routing the shift cable along the down tube and chain stay sometimes means your feet hit the cable and cause inadvertent shifts, or worse.
Routing the shift cable along the top tube and seat stay keeps it out of the way of your feet while pedaling.

I have 3 Raleighs and A Hercules. I never had a problem with any cable getting in my feet. The gear cable is protected. Therefore it does not tend to rust.
One of the Raleigh have that upper way and is totally open to the weather conditions,
The pulley is rusted. Part of its restoration to come. [Still cant post pics.Frustrating]


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