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queerpunk 10-28-15 07:48 AM

1 Attachment(s)
that's very cool.

for anybody who doesn't know, Stack and Reach are the two measurements that remove other geometry variables so that you can actually compare the sizes of two different bike models.

Consider this: a bike with a black frame and a lower seat-tube angle and a red frame with a steeper seat-tube angle are next to each other. because of the seat-tube angle, they have very different top-tube measurements - but regardless of that, you still need to put the saddle in the same place to get your saddle:bb relationship correct!

the Reach measurement measures from a vertical line coming out of the bottom bracket, to the middle of the headtube - so it removes the effect of a variable seat-tube angle.

Stack and Reach are the ONLY way to compare the sizes of bikes.


http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=484939

weavie 10-28-15 08:13 AM

Thanks for publishing this chart, it's a great tool to have available.

I'm interested to know how you came to these values. I've been using "reach = top tube - (cos(seat tube angle) * length of seat tube)" and it gets me pretty close most of the time to published reach numbers but yours are a bit different for the bike I own (Fuji track elite) so I'm thinking you have a different equation.

Hrothgar42 10-28-15 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 18275871)
This is AMAZING. Did you use Google Fusion Tables or something?

No. But looking at it, maybe I should have. :) It's custom javascript on top of Chart.js. Next up is figuring out how to get more frames in the legend, then maybe adding options for plotting top tube and head tube length.


Originally Posted by weavie (Post 18276267)
I'm interested to know how you came to these values. I've been using "reach = top tube - (cos(seat tube angle) * length of seat tube)" and it gets me pretty close most of the time to published reach numbers but yours are a bit different for the bike I own (Fuji track elite) so I'm thinking you have a different equation.

That is the equation I'm using if the manufacturer doesn't publish stack and reach. It's accurate if the top tube is horizontal, but if the seat tube is significantly higher or lower than the top of the head tube, it's not great. Take a look at the Dolan TC1 or the Giant Omnium in the graph. They both shorten the reach when going up a size. Now that's probably due to the calculation being inaccurate, but it would be great to know for sure.

Fuji does provide stack and reach for the track elite in their geometry chart, and I'm using the 2015 one here. Is yours possibly an older model year? I can add it assuming I fix the legend size issue.

queerpunk 10-28-15 10:24 AM

it should work if you use "effective top tube" measurements, which assume a horizontal TT in situations where there is not one.

Hrothgar42 10-28-15 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18276652)
it should work if you use "effective top tube" measurements, which assume a horizontal TT in situations where there is not one.

That's definitely one piece, but we also need an "effective seat tube" as a measurement from the BB to the ST junction with the "effective top tube". That would give us the right (pun intended?) triangle to use trig on.


Originally Posted by Bulldogsprinter (Post 18275891)
Looking at that I see that the DF4 was the best choice for me, most reach and least stack for a 57cm frame.

Glad you found it useful. I've been trying to decide if I'm flexible enough to get a Hoy, based on riding a Langster pro 54 and 56 rentals at Hellyer.

weavie 10-28-15 10:51 AM

Sorry, my mistake, I misread my notes and was looking at the numbers for the Fuji Track Pro.

gtrob 10-28-15 02:18 PM

Looking at that chart explains why I had to use a -35 stem and still wasn't as low as I wanted on my T1 lol. Although I guess the 'slammed' stem is stiffer than having 4 inches of steerer tube sticking out, which I believe why cervelo was notorious for having such large stack heights on all of their bikes.. But I did just buy a new frame yesterday, which puts me 45mm longer reach and nearly 50mm less stack, so it will take some getting used to Im sure.

Dalai 10-28-15 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by gtrob (Post 18277369)
But I did just buy a new frame yesterday

Well???? Don't leave us hanging... :)

gtrob 10-28-15 05:49 PM

ha well Im still waiting for it to arrive, hopefully get to build it up this weekend and will add pics. Kind of feel dumb as I already sold my current bike so have nothing to ride but the rental bikes at the track right now lol

Not sure its public yet but its the same bike our national team is moving to!

Dalai 10-29-15 12:56 AM

Looking forward to the photos.

Discussion - "Hard evidence for weight training for track sprints?" in the Google group cycling-physiology

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...gy/6DiYuZevYT4

dunderhi 10-29-15 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18276203)
that's very cool.

for anybody who doesn't know, Stack and Reach are the two measurements that remove other geometry variables so that you can actually compare the sizes of two different bike models.

Consider this: a bike with a black frame and a lower seat-tube angle and a red frame with a steeper seat-tube angle are next to each other. because of the seat-tube angle, they have very different top-tube measurements - but regardless of that, you still need to put the saddle in the same place to get your saddle:bb relationship correct!

the Reach measurement measures from a vertical line coming out of the bottom bracket, to the middle of the headtube - so it removes the effect of a variable seat-tube angle.

Stack and Reach are the ONLY way to compare the sizes of bikes.


http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=484939

I tried to compare the published stack & reach of my Pinarello and Argon 18 and Argon18 doesn't list the stack & reach. I guess I'll need to measure them myself to see how they compare. Despite their wildly different geometries, they both feel fine to me.

Hrothgar42 10-29-15 06:26 PM

Bobby sent me stack and reach numbers for the Dixie Flyer!

I updated the graph... https://googledrive.com/host/0BzwSdU...GdKVk0/2d.html

carleton 10-30-15 12:48 PM

(Most of you know about this)

Tissot Timing is the official timer for most (if not all) UCI events. They post results and sometimes live data on their site:

Tissot Timing - Results -

The data goes back for several years for several events (mostly World Cups and World Championships, but other stuff like European Championships will be there, too. Events date back to 2000.

Tissot Timing - Results - CYCLING TRACK

Pay close attention. If you ever see "Analysis" next to an event, that will list the "audit" split times every 125m for an event. For example:

http://i.imgur.com/a0Yxh3N.png

Also, look up top and see general info like schedule, registered teams and racers, communiques (official docs and statements)

http://i.imgur.com/ZHoWQbQ.png

This data is "straight from the horse's mouth" when it comes to results.

Dalai 11-02-15 08:53 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Aero helmets - with and without visor*

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=485913

*Actual drag values will be specific to the individual.

dunderhi 11-02-15 09:24 PM

Wow, I just found a video of how I spent a good part of my summer. It kind of gives you an idea of the extra things Ttown does to attract larger crowds. Too bad there weren't any clips of old guy racing on Saturdays. :(

https://youtu.be/O35WZi7lSt4 Okay, there's one old guy(50+) in the Sr4 field . Unfortunately, he didn't win. :cry:

https://youtu.be/pFjtkCVx_AM

gycho77 11-07-15 12:52 PM

DIY wind-powered cellphone charger

DIY charger for cyclist!!

queerpunk 11-12-15 02:16 PM

So there's this gif.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CS0t5pnUcAA7Qci.mp4 The announcers said that since Hoogland went backwards so that he could take the lead, rather than to give up the lead, that the going-backwards wasn't labeled a violation.

I scanned the rulebook but couldn't find the rule about how you can only go forwards. Anybody what that rule states?

gtrob 11-12-15 02:38 PM

Is there not a rule for how long you can track stand? Or how many times? I thought in there it said something about rolling backwards. Or maybe thats one of the silly longest lap rules

*I quote UCI rules that I make up all the time*

queerpunk 11-12-15 04:20 PM

the trackstand rule is:

3.2.039 The rider on the inside of the track, unless overtaken, shall lead at least at walking
pace and make no manoeuvre to force his opponent through until reaching the
pursuit line on the opposite side of the track. A maximum of two standstills shall be
permitted for each race. The maximum period for a standstill shall be 30 seconds
following which, the leading rider shall be directed by the starter to continue. If he
fails to do so, the starter shall stop the race and declare the other rider the winner of
the heat. In a three or four-up race, the race shall be immediately rerun as a two or
three-up race, without the relegated rider.

700wheel 11-12-15 06:39 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18314444)
So there's this gif.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CS0t5pnUcAA7Qci.mp4 The announcers said that since Hoogland went backwards so that he could take the lead, rather than to give up the lead, that the going-backwards wasn't labeled a violation.

I scanned the rulebook but couldn't find the rule about how you can only go forwards. Anybody what that rule states?

There used to be a rule that limited how far a rider could "reverse" during a track stand. As I recall the distance was around 20 inches.

queerpunk 11-12-15 09:32 PM

yeah, but I can't find the rule!

taras0000 11-12-15 11:30 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 18315460)
yeah, but I can't find the rule!

It was 8 inches, or 20 cm. It was rule 3.2.040 which got eliminated January 1st, 2002. It stated that a rider was not allowed to pedal backwards to get behind an opponent. It also stated hopping of the bicycle to accomplish the same thing was illegal as well.

queerpunk 11-28-15 07:25 PM

i found this pic from Revolution featuring a Giro helmet I hadn't seen before... like a new version of the air attack, with some of the styling of giro's new snub-tailed TT helmet that i had seen on world tour teams this year - but this one is roundbacked.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CU7__1cUYAA0Gtl.png

fietsbob 11-29-15 01:22 PM

some places are racing thru the winter.. Six-day racing: Madisons, mayhem and the Ministry of Sound - BBC Sport

but they had to invest in a building and a Track in it. to have it inside.

700wheel 11-30-15 06:28 PM

Tickets for Rio Olympic Track Events are on sale.
To purchase tickets for all the sessions would cost 2,550 to 3,000 Euros.
https//www.tickets4summergames.com


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